Where is Burning Man going?

jweav093 · Post by **jweav093** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:05 pm

This past August was my first Burn and I absolutely enjoyed my experience. However, I kept hearing things like: "Burning Man just isn't the same anymore" and "It's gotten too big", etc...
Since I don't have anything to compare my experience with I was wondering what the thoughts were on the direction in which Burning Man is going. Some people seem unhappy about it and it makes me wonder what Burning Man was like before? By growing every year does that take away from this communitarian spirit?

There were a few other things that crossed my mind when I was there:
I was suprised to find out that some of the bars on Esplanade asked for ID, has this always happened at Burning Man or is this a recent occurence?
Also, I'm curious to know if there were more police officers at this event compared to the previous years? Does it make a difference?
In 2007, there was an early burning of the man. Was this a good thing or a bad thing?
I would love to hear about people's good and bad experiences.

- Mademoiselle Dig

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:15 pm

I wasn't there at the beginning, so I can't completely comment. I think there was a difference--perhaps for the better, perhaps for the worse--but I think a number of the "it's not the way it used to be" people are just over it anyway and this gives them an excuse.

As for bars asking for id, you better believe that htere are LEOs out there checking to make sure minors aren't getting drinks, and if you're a sensible saloon, you don't want to end your vacation early to go to jail, or have to pay large fines. Sure, they coulda got away with it 10, 15 years ago, but in some ways Burningman is a victim of its own success.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:17 pm

just drink the kool-aid and shut the fuck up.

damn canadians.

Post by **AntiM** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:05 pm

"It isn't your father's burning man." It was easier to see and do stuff when it was smaller, my first year was 2001. But every year feels different. Maybe I didn't notice the RVs before, maybe I didn't notice how much of the art never shows up. I think the longer one attends, the more knowledge one has, and the more details one notices. If that makes sense. Even though the event is bigger, I can puzzle it together better now.

Even small regional events can have fubars and drama. I love both Black Rock and the Salt Lake burns, I even go to the Vegas regional.

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:24 pm

As the event has gotten bigger there have been more constraints placed on it, by the BLM state of Nevada, county and federal officials, even the heath department requires you to get a permit to give food away. Most of those changes happened some time ago.

The community does seem to be becoming more dilute, but part of that could be my perception. Your first year your blown away from then on every year is a little different some better some worst but as time goes on there is less that shocks or surprises you, you become kind of jaded. You have to work to keep it fresh and keep your eyes open to seeing what an incredible experience it is.

There are pressures to in some way mobilize the diversely creative community to forward one cause or another. If any of those really take hold I fear the diversity of young, old ,liberal and conservative, working class and those better off will, will be diminished, and that would have the potential of making the community one dimensional. It could still be a great hippie feast, or rave or gathering or vegan ecologists but it would not be Burning Man with all the richness of colors we all bring.

Barbie · Post by **Barbie** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:51 am

Did someone say KOOL-AID

Where would you like Burning Man to GO???

Post by **Eric** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:31 am

Take it for what it is when YOU are there- not some half-mythical "what-it-was-once" event. I went & worked with one of the most jaded camps around, and they still taught me to love it. Yes, more law enforcement is there, but wouldn't you rather have them in a city of 50,000+ people, most of whom are in altered states?

It grows, it changes- just in the six years I've gone it's blown up, and guess what- I still have a great time every year. I might have a bad day here and there, but if you just take it for what it is and quit worrying that you might have missed something better in the past, you'll be fine.

Zen and the Art of Burning Man: whatever happens happens.

Where's my KoolAid?

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:32 am

Going to the Moon would be interesting!

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:08 pm

BAS wrote:Going to the Moon would be interesting!

It costs enough to get there as it is, on the moon there would probably only be two or three RVs and people wouldnâ€™t get out of them much, nobody in tents and it would sure be a bitch bolting a dome together. Can you imagine how much it would cost to have the Jots port-o-pottys serviced.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:37 pm

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:15 pm

In a North Eastern direction.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:31 pm

I think the north American plate is going south east.........

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:35 pm

Then East for sure! I long for the day when we are in the true middle of the Playa. That's where I want Burning Man to be going.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:39 pm

Zulegoona wrote:
BAS wrote:Going to the Moon would be interesting!
It costs enough to get there as it is, on the moon there would probably only be two or three RVs and people wouldnâ€™t get out of them much, nobody in tents and it would sure be a bitch bolting a dome together. Can you imagine how much it would cost to have the Jots port-o-pottys serviced.

Fuck, here goes big time-consuming project number eleventy nine... a pressurized cabin for the Land Yacht. And a rocket motor for my truck.

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:41 pm

Zulegoona wrote:
BAS wrote:Going to the Moon...
...it would sure be a bitch bolting a dome together....

Whaddya talkin about? Just jump up and bolt while in 1/6 gravity! Easier lifting as well.

willyloafofphora · Post by **willyloafofphora** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:14 pm

To Hell if it doesn't change it's ways. REPENT REPENT!!!

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:49 am

it's not going anywhere. Thats what the velcro is for.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:56 am

Barbie wrote:Did someone say KOOL-AID

Where would you like Burning Man to GO???

Disneyworld!!

fciron · Post by **fciron** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:02 am

I told a friend that I was finally going to Burning Man in 2008. He said "I hear it's not like it used to be back when I went.' (1996-97) My response "So I'm not supposed to go now?"

Fuck that shit. I didn't go back then, I am going now. I am doing my damnedest to make an awesome burn for myself and those around me. If you have a plan to make it as awesome as you remember it I can listen to that. If you just want to bitch about how it was better before I got there (Thanks, asshat!) I suggest you take that to the port-a-john where it belongs.

I don't mind hearing a story about the good old days and the Drive-BY-Shooting Range or ill-advised explosives use. I just don't want people whining about the burn that I am having and enjoying.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:49 am

The more it changes, the more it remains the same. Or vice versa.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:12 am

This is a really interesting question. I've only been four times (all in a row) so I don't have that lengthy of a perspective. I have read everything I can on Burning Man, so I do have some second-hand perspective.

Between 2005 and 2007 I noticed no real change except, perhaps, the art was getting bigger and better every year and the population was slowly rising.

This year, I noticed some big changes.

The city layout was a lot bigger, making it a little less intimate, and this was compounded greatly by the sandy unrideable playa conditions.

There was less jaw-dropping art this year. Not as many hugely expensive mega projects like Big Rig Jig, Crude Awakening, Steampunk Treehouse. This was possibly related to high gas prices and a weakening economy.

There also were a lot more newbies who apparently never bothered to read the Survivial Guide and went solely as non-participatory spectators. This last observation, however, is not subject to scientific verification.

I've noticed no real increase in law enforcement, but perhaps because I read the rules and never interact with them.

From the documentaries I've seen and books I read, I don't think I would have enjoyed the pre-1997 era. I don't generally like rules and regulations, but being run over in your tent before driving ont he playa was banned doesn't sound good. Also, Im sure there was great art back then, but it would be hard to imagine it being more or better than the period of 2005-2007.

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:46 pm

I tend to agree with that assessment. I think 2005-2007 (perhaps going as far back as 2003, and I have been every year since 1999) were the halcyon days of Burning Man. My biggest gripe, as many of you know, is the smothering influence of the DMV. I am not suggesting a bunch of shitty art cars should be tooling around the playa, but the draconian and arbitrary rules that were put into place for 2008 made the event not only less artistic but much less fun. Let's see, expand the size of the city but decrease the abililty for its citizens to actually explore the city. BRILLIANT! And this is just the tip of the iceberg. As long as the BMOrg keep putting the wrong people in the place of the decision-making process can we expect it to get better. So where is Burning Man going? To hell in a handbasket.

Post by **mdmf007** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:55 pm

"Where's it going?"

IMHO Burningman is still participant driven, and the number of participants has grown a lot. What has changed is the dunamic though.

Whn I first went 8 or so years ago, the even was a lot smaller, and there were yahoos, and asshats there. The percentage of these peoples has probably not changed much, but with the real estate only growing so much you are exposed to the Yahoos and asshats that much more.

I think exposure is one key to the changing perspective -

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:50 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:
From the documentaries I've seen and books I read, I don't think I would have enjoyed the pre-1997 era.

It bears repeating.
And for me, I think the macho culture would have been a deal killer. I would probably have enjoyed the Drive By Shooting Range for half an hour and then been really really put off by it.

It's a guess, but that whole "wild west" thing would get old fast.

CLARKcon · Post by **CLARKcon** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:25 am

As with alot of things (if not everything), "it is what you make it". Sooo, if you want to have the best year ever (1st time or 20th time) than make it the best time ever. Create, build, dream, envision and soak it in. Make a rad camp, so if the outside environment/entertainment is lacking, than you can go out and pull people togetther for a house party

Depending on you intention (i.e.-purpose for going in the first place), your ideals will be either met or denied, depending on the expectation level you set. I get exactly what I need from the desert each year, without failure: a vacation, c r a z y camping conditions, inspiration, aspiriation, a connectivity to humanity (never experienced elsewhere in that level of sincerity/intensity) and an electricity that I can apply to my art...and if not anything,a great f'ing suntan

If you want to set yourself up for a bad time, then just let you preconceptions, doubt, and a nagging self-conciousness take over. If you want to set yourself up for the best time ever, just clean the slate of your mind and open your eyes, ears, and understanding...ahhhh....feels good, don't it?

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:38 am

well said Clark Con!

Tu' shae

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:12 am

Got it!

I been looking for this thread.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:43 am

it was different, yes...1996 was a watershed year for many reasons.

it was my first of lets see, 10 visits to the playa.

has it altered my love for the event seeing it change?

i dont think so.

i remember when my little nephew was a baby...he was so cute, cuddly, and occasionally he spit up.

when he was a toddler, he was hell on wheels.

thru kindergarten, he got glasses, learned to read and write, and became a little man.

he's now 12 years old, and rapidly approaching the 6 foot mark.

he's still my little nephew, but he done "all growed up", and i dont expect him to vomit on me anymore (that may happen when he hits college, everything being circular), i could never play baseball with him when he was a toddler, now i can, but again, he is still who he is, just changed.

i will cherish all of the years, even the one when he almost burned down his fathers garage playing with matches (year 9?)

i feel like i've seen the man reach puberty, and now in his teen-age / young adult years, the growing pains, and the direction that he will go is undecided.

i'm sure we all felt that way at sometime. I'm not going to crawl around on the floor, going goo-goo gah-gah and put on diapers and ask to breast feed (oh wait, maybe i will on the last one) to simulate being an infant because i want to "go back" but i can appreciate the the past, it's flavor and the maturity that the event has arrived at.

do i like playing with guns? you bet your bippy...but i realize that with that many people around, it's probably not too safe.

Are dangerous explosions fun? hella yeah, but again, a hot water heater tank filled with acetylene and ignited by a .22 from a quarter mlle away is also probably not the wisest course of action in a crowd.

is Burning Man becoming something that we neither Enjoy, or Participate in?

if it is, dont go.

fciron · Post by **fciron** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:37 am

I've always wondered why 1996 is always cited as the year of the Big Change when everything went downhill. Now we know why.

Thanks for 'fessing up, Simon.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:38 am

Yeah, thanks a lot, Simon! You messed up the event!

I've only been once (2006), and managed to be sick the whole time. I want to go again when I am feeling better, since I should be able to participate more.

I like the way CLARKcon put it.

(Darn, I have to get ready for work, so will have to leave it at that.)