California passes prop 8

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:05 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:Full disclosure: I voted No on 8. Now that said, call back the lawyers and get back to work. You people are sore losers, get over it. I've never seen a bigger bunch of babies and whiners than the people who are upset that this proposition passed. So gays can't marry in California. Oh no, what next, we're going to repeal the 13th Amendment and bring back slavery? Jesus, you people need to either get a life or find something truly important to stand up to. Domestic partnerships. It could be a whole lot worse.

many thanks to the Doc, for a moment of clarity.

VelcroChicken · Post by **VelcroChicken** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:32 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:Full disclosure: I voted No on 8. Now that said, call back the lawyers and get back to work. You people are sore losers, get over it. I've never seen a bigger bunch of babies and whiners than the people who are upset that this proposition passed. So gays can't marry in California. Oh no, what next, we're going to repeal the 13th Amendment and bring back slavery? Jesus, you people need to either get a life or find something truly important to stand up to. Domestic partnerships. It could be a whole lot worse.

No, screw that. If a law passes that you don't agree with, you have the right and I think a duty to complain about it and take action. Now, granted, it's not my state so there isn't a lot I can do about it, but it's still important to me. So I'm not going to sit back and say "Oh well, maybe next year they'll give me my civil rights." Yes, it could be a whole lot worse, but what kind of outlook is that? If you think about it we could be a war-torn third world country where gays are hung in the streets. But we're not, we're a country that's supposed to be based on some basic human rights, and that's why we're where we are today, I think.

Yes, I understand this does involve doing more than complaining about it on the ePlaya, but if this isn't important to you there's no need to insult the people who think it is.

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:33 am

VelcroChicken wrote:
Dr. Pyro wrote:Full disclosure: I voted No on 8. Now that said, call back the lawyers and get back to work. You people are sore losers, get over it. I've never seen a bigger bunch of babies and whiners than the people who are upset that this proposition passed. So gays can't marry in California. Oh no, what next, we're going to repeal the 13th Amendment and bring back slavery? Jesus, you people need to either get a life or find something truly important to stand up to. Domestic partnerships. It could be a whole lot worse.
No, screw that. If a law passes that you don't agree with, you have the right and I think a duty to complain about it and take action. Now, granted, it's not my state so there isn't a lot I can do about it, but it's still important to me. So I'm not going to sit back and say "Oh well, maybe next year they'll give me my civil rights." Yes, it could be a whole lot worse, but what kind of outlook is that? If you think about it we could be a war-torn third world country where gays are hung in the streets. But we're not, we're a country that's supposed to be based on some basic human rights, and that's why we're where we are today, I think.

Yes, I understand this does involve doing more than complaining about it on the ePlaya, but if this isn't important to you there's no need to insult the people who think it is.

more whining, oh for the love of supreme being. get over it.

VelcroChicken · Post by **VelcroChicken** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:37 am

Edited to not be facetious.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:40 am

joel the ornery wrote: more whining, oh for the love of supreme being. get over it.

With the help of the courts, we will!

JK

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:10 am

Those silly social and legal contracts may seem superfluous until you're denied access to someone who is sick or dying.
And then there are children.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:22 am

With the help of the courts, we will!

The People have Spoken--and WE don't like it! Screw the People! Down with the People! Power to Those Who Know What's Best For You!

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:36 am

Those silly social and legal contracts may seem superfluous until you're denied access to someone who is sick or dying.
And then there are children.

Then lets have some lawyer draw up a contract that gay people can use instead of a marriage license. How hard could it be? A 'domestic patrnership' already exists.

If it's really about the governmental angle, and the access, why not forego forcing the word 'marriage' down people's throats who don't want it, who voted against it in a legal and open ballot?

Think they'll all roll over and say ok when you try to force it on them?

Churches aren't the problem--I've been to numerous gay weddings that didn't have the 'blessing' of the state but were done in the eyes of God. Isn't that the important part of marriage?

Take care of the legal side with some kind of contract and leave this until the sheer numbers of de facto gay marriages makes fighting it a moot point.

Because The People are clearly not yet on the right side of this issue.

For the record, I voted in favor of gay marriage when a similar proposal came through my state. I had great fun with the canvassers because I had a Bush/Cheney sign on my lawn alongside theirs. Although I think the Bush campaign worker freaked more when she saw the huge, purple pentagram on the front of the house.

Gay marriage will come. When the People are ready for it.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:46 am

lurker is right..

Marrage Lic. are a money grab. Spent your money on a "good" contract and make your promises in front of your friends and family for all to share. Then go have a good life..

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:31 am

Domestic partnerships are a half-assed solution.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:32 am

Is such a contract enforceable?
It was just made illegal to adopt children in arkansas if you live with someone and aren't married, regardless of sex.

The adoption facilities aren't thrilled.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:43 am

lurker wrote: Gay marriage will come. When the People are ready for it.

Like the right of women to vote? Like slavery? Some things need to come before "the people" are ready.

All are equal under the LAW. If it isn't a religious issue, then why should it matter? I'm all for the contract idea--get rid of the word marriage all together and let everybody apply for the contract at city hall. That would work for me.

Some people aren't even ready to acknowledge evolution and science and genetics, etc.

The time is long past due.

JK

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:00 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Domestic partnerships are a half-assed solution.

WHY?

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:12 pm

jkisha wrote:
lurker wrote: Gay marriage will come. When the People are ready for it.
Like the right of women to vote? Like slavery? Some things need to come before "the people" are ready.

All are equal under the LAW. If it isn't a religious issue, then why should it matter? I'm all for the contract idea--get rid of the word marriage all together and let everybody apply for the contract at city hall. That would work for me.

Some people aren't even ready to acknowledge evolution and science and genetics, etc.

The time is long past due.

JK

Just to play the SNARKY FUCKHEAD HERE......

Why should anybody who is on the other side of YOUR political spectrum give a flying fuck what matters to YOU???

You go out of your way to INSULT every fucking thing that matters to them. Then you want them to "do the right thing"?

STOMP on their RELIGION, STOMP on their FUCKING VALUES....

Then SNIVEL when they say FUCK YOU....

Waaaaaa there is "IN God We Trust" on the fucking MONEY...

DO I HEAR A BIG FUCK YOU????

Do I really CARE.

Yes, I actually do.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:05 pm

goathead wrote:
Just to play the SNARKY FUCKHEAD HERE......

Why should anybody who is on the other side of YOUR political spectrum give a flying fuck what matters to YOU???

You go out of your way to INSULT every fucking thing that matters to them. Then you want them to "do the right thing"?

STOMP on their RELIGION, STOMP on their FUCKING VALUES....

Then SNIVEL when they say FUCK YOU....

Waaaaaa there is "IN God We Trust" on the fucking MONEY...

DO I HEAR A BIG FUCK YOU????

Do I really CARE.

Yes, I actually do.

Well I am glad that you care.

Actually, that's the whole point--it doesn't matter what you say, or what you think. You have that right, as do I.

The constitution is written to: Protect the rights of the minority against the will of the majority.

It doesn't matter if you like or agree with that particular minority, they are guaranteed the same rights under the constitution and under the law.

So, if someone is being denied their equal right, it doesn't matter at all what the majority of the people want, they simply can't have it! We are all treated equally under the law of the land. (Or at least we should be, which is why we are sending this to the courts. Which, by the way, is their job. They are NOT legislating, they are merely enforcing the law; whether it reflects the will of the people or not.)

JK

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:28 pm

All are equal under the LAW. If it isn't a religious issue, then why should it matter? I'm all for the contract idea--get rid of the word marriage all together and let everybody apply for the contract at city hall. That would work for me.

While I wouldn't get rid of the word 'marriage', I WOULD take the word out of the hands of the state. Let everyone get a domestic contract upon marrying--or not.

Let polys get polimarried Marriage is a private contract--why should the state limit who can enter into it--or how many?

The constitution is written to: Protect the rights of the minority against the will of the majority.

No. I don't think that's it. There is far too much that hinges on the will of the majority. The Constitution protects against the Tyranny of the majority--we all have the same rights before the law. This keeps the Majority from abrogating rights as administrations change.

Marriage, sadly. is not a 'right'. You do not have the right to marry. You CAN marry, but it's not a right you can demand. Which is why I think the government should get out of the marriage business.

There are a lot of things we falsely think of as 'rights' that simply can't be--and others that ARE rights that get abrogated all the time--without so much as a whimper. We fight for these false rights while ignoring the whittling away of the real ones.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:40 pm

jkisha wrote: Well I am glad that you care.

Actually, that's the whole point--it doesn't matter what you say, or what you think. You have that right, as do I.

The constitution is written to: Protect the rights of the minority against the will of the majority.

It doesn't matter if you like or agree with that particular minority, they are guaranteed the same rights under the constitution and under the law.

So, if someone is being denied their equal right, it doesn't matter at all what the majority of the people want, they simply can't have it! We are all treated equally under the law of the land. (Or at least we should be, which is why we are sending this to the courts. Which, by the way, is their job. They are NOT legislating, they are merely enforcing the law; whether it reflects the will of the people or not.)

JK

Actually it is BECAUSE I DO CARE......
That I point this out.
Which is more important?
In GOD WE TRUST?
Remeber this was put on AFTER WWII and during KOREA...
Or EQUAL RIGHTS for GAY COUPLES?
IF YOU INCIST on STOMPING on the FUCKING FEET of those who MUST approve of this.

WELL, FUCK YOU...
YOUR GOING TO LOSE....

I worked for UPS in the 70, 80's
UPS didn't care who you where.
I had friends DENIED, ENTRY, into their loved ones hospital rooms. BECAUSE THEY WHERE NOT FAMILY...

And to see the SURVIVOR RAKED over the COALS by closed minded fucking family...

So just what the FUCK do you really want to stand for?

The rights of couples no matter what their gender status?

or YOUR right not to see "In God we TRUST"

Ohhh just in case you havent't noticed we "BURNERS' are not in the majority . YET.....

gAWD help us when we are....

Even then I would probably just have to leave a PISS PUDDLE in front of your TENT....
Just for old times sake.
Or because I was just to fucked up....

STOMP THEM FUCKING TOESSSSSSSSssssssss......

Yeah
FUCK YOUR DAY.....

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:47 pm

lurker wrote:
While I wouldn't get rid of the word 'marriage', I WOULD take the word out of the hands of the state. Let everyone get a domestic contract upon marrying--or not.

Let polys get polimarried Marriage is a private contract--why should the state limit who can enter into it--or how many?

Well we agree on this. Marriage can be something you do in a church. Domestic Contract is what you need to have it recognized by the state.

Works for me.

Which would then make the second part of your answer moot as far as I am concerned.

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:55 pm

goathead wrote: Actually it is BECAUSE I DO CARE......
That I point this out.
Which is more important?
In GOD WE TRUST?
Remeber this was put on AFTER WWII and during KOREA...
Or EQUAL RIGHTS for GAY COUPLES?
IF YOU INCIST on STOMPING on the FUCKING FEET of those who MUST approve of this.

WELL, FUCK YOU...
YOUR GOING TO LOSE....

I worked for UPS in the 70, 80's
UPS didn't care who you where.
I had friends DENIED, ENTRY, into their loved ones hospital rooms. BECAUSE THEY WHERE NOT FAMILY...

And to see the SURVIVOR RAKED over the COALS by closed minded fucking family...

So just what the FUCK do you really want to stand for?

The rights of couples no matter what their gender status?

or YOUR right not to see "In God we TRUST"

Ohhh just in case you havent't noticed we "BURNERS' are not in the majority . YET.....

gAWD help us when we are....

Even then I would probably just have to leave a PISS PUDDLE in front of your TENT....
Just for old times sake.
Or because I was just to fucked up....

STOMP THEM FUCKING TOESSSSSSSSssssssss......

Yeah
FUCK YOUR DAY.....

I think we are really pretty much on the same page on this. Now please don't pee in front of my tent!

JK

Unless you are hot and hunky and I can watch!

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:41 pm

It doesn't take much patriotism to defend something that's close to yourself.
The true test of patriotism is to defend the rights of someone you neither know or care for.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:27 pm

jkisha wrote:[
I think we are really pretty much on the same page on this. Now please don't pee in front of my tent!

JK

It would dry before you got up.

misfit · Post by **misfit** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:44 pm

i was talking with a WW2 vet today on the topic of gay marrage. he stated in all seriousness that if you allow gays to marry, then how can you stop interspieces marrage.?...

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:50 pm

misfit wrote:i was talking with a WW2 vet today on the topic of gay marrage. he stated in all seriousness that if you allow gays to marry, then how can you stop interspieces marrage.?...

Do YOU have a score card?
Who gives a shit, what happens between a Man and his Ewe?
Or a girl and her Donkey?

If its a good performance CHEER.....

It's not like you have to worry about prenatal benefits....

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:55 pm

Free will is THE right.
People that think they have a right to an opinion about things that are none of their business are the scary thing.
Many of these people want war and may get it.
Better to stop them sooner.

The christian taliban lives.
Fascism is the same all over the world.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:07 pm

misfit wrote:i was talking with a WW2 vet today on the topic of gay marrage. he stated in all seriousness that if you allow gays to marry, then how can you stop interspieces marrage.?...

Hmmmm......well, the answer to that seems pretty simple to me. If it can't say "I do" you can't marry it.

What can you say to someone with that mind set?

JK

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:11 pm

gyre wrote: The christian taliban lives.
Fascism is the same all over the world.

FUCK YOU and your CHRISTIAN TALIBAN BULLSHIT....

Ohhhh thats a FUCKING INSULT MAYBE????
So if I call you DUMB FUCKING IGNORANT, IDIOT, WHO LIVES IN SOME PLACE WHERE I CAN HEAR THE BANJO"S FROM TEN MILES OUT......

LMAO at ten miles out all I can hear is the railroad and the coyotes....

When they have tattooed, " CUT HERE" on our neck's then WE will both have the same enemy....

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:36 pm

What a strange little goat you are.

Boijoy · Post by **Boijoy** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:48 pm

FUCK the haters ! Fuck them all.. and to all a good night !

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:15 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:What a strange little goat you are.

Shouldn't we all be?

Boijoy said

FUCK the haters ! Fuck them all..

I see hate on both sides.....

Years ago I watched a co worker die. He was gay, I watched his "mate" go through HELL from his partners bigoted family......

SO, while I might be a little FUCKING CONSERVATIVE on some issues. I just MIGHT understand what it is to LOSE SOMEONE YOU LOVE...

So WHILE you are BEATING THE SHIT out of some REDNECK asshole, WHY not try to connect on some mutual level?

BEAT the FUCK OUT OF ME I REAALY DON"T CARE.......

I Know where you camp.....

Plus I DON"T VOTE IN CALIFORNIA....

Try winning the suport of some fucking REDNECK IN SUSANVILLE by telling him just how fucking STUPID he is.....because

YOU believe in GOD? What a FUCKING IDIOT !!!!!!

Talk about stepping on your DICK.....

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:47 pm

wedeliver wrote:
Dr. Pyro wrote:Full disclosure: I voted No on 8. Now that said, call back the lawyers and get back to work. You people are sore losers, get over it. I've never seen a bigger bunch of babies and whiners than the people who are upset that this proposition passed. So gays can't marry in California. Oh no, what next, we're going to repeal the 13th Amendment and bring back slavery? Jesus, you people need to either get a life or find something truly important to stand up to. Domestic partnerships. It could be a whole lot worse.
Could we pass a proposition that says that crippled people cannot marry, or dwarfts or people with downs syndrome should not be able to marry like "normal" people.

At one point it was illegal for people with Down's syndrome to marry. And I wouldn't be surprised that they still face a lot of opposition.

Hey Doc, how do you feel about eugenics?