Survival

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Post by mdmf007 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:14 pm

ygmir wrote:
mdmf007 wrote:i guess Grey Davis's cuts make more sense now huh? lol.
California voted it this way.

Gyre - I always pictured a boat as a viable escape as well. about a 70 footer would be worldwide capable comfortably.
yeah, a well outfitted boat......but, you'd sure be at the mercy of some bad characters on the high seas..........


Gray Davis' cuts?....huh?..............
Very true, but the oceans are huge and radar is cheap. You can see people coming for 30-40 miles easy.

Tens of thousands of islands uninhabited as well.

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Post by can't sit still » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:30 pm

That is a REALLY fucking cool boat. It doesn't look great for blue water but, it is cool.
The SOS store looks pretty good. Dunno about prices,,, comparatively. LMK if you want me to ask about stuff.
Remember prop 76; "After his victory in the 2003 recall election, Governor Schwarzenegger called for a new spending limit as part of his "California Recovery Plan" for addressing the state's budget crisis. The legislature rejected his spending limits"
All democracies have failed because the populace has no fiscal responsibility. We passed prop 13 to cut our taxes. But, then we demand lots of freebies from GOV. Then came prop 76, the "Live within our means" budget and we said fuck no!!
http://igs.berkeley.edu/library/htSpendingLimits.html

California is forked and we forked ourselves. We're broke and we have to service <55> billion $$$$$$ in bonds. The electorate is fucking irresponsible [and/or] the legislature. We voted the pain to the future and the pleasure to today. Well, the future is here. Recent bond offerings have completely failed. No investor would buy them. So, we recently offered bonds to the only suckers around,,,, the public. They took the bait to the tune of $ 3.7 billion. But,,, they're only 1 year notes. 3.7 billion is chicken feed to Sacramento.

So, our instant pleasure and deferred pain are HERE, NOW. So, for 2009, we have instant pain and deferred pleasure. :lol:
At one time Sacramento said that the deficit was 3 B,,then a few weeks later, $10B the, every few weeks it ooooooozed upwards. It's currently claimed to be $26 billion.
Welllllllll, sacramento says 30% reduction in employees. So, what is that going to morph into as time goes by.
You can't blame the govenator,,, he was elected to carry out the will of the people.
The air over Sacramento will be pink next year. Not only that, the payroll system is COBOL. It's going to crash like a flying goose with a cheery bomb up it's ass. :evil:

I feel bad for any qualified employees that lose their job but, lets face it. an irresponsible electorate got us to where we are.That's why our credit rating is lower than Slovakia.

One other solution for food. The crash is soon. You can buy canned food and it won't go bad before you need it. There are places that have "ding and Dent" sales. They can't sell damaged cans of food, so they clearance them at ding and dent stores.
It's also a good idea to have food that your neighbors can't smell when it's cooking. I have a friend who remembers his mom cooking at 3:00 in the morn with no lights on,,, so the neighbors wouldn't know. Mexico.
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Post by ygmir » Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:45 pm

mdmf007 wrote:
ygmir wrote:
mdmf007 wrote:i guess Grey Davis's cuts make more sense now huh? lol.
California voted it this way.

Gyre - I always pictured a boat as a viable escape as well. about a 70 footer would be worldwide capable comfortably.
yeah, a well outfitted boat......but, you'd sure be at the mercy of some bad characters on the high seas..........


Gray Davis' cuts?....huh?..............
Very true, but the oceans are huge and radar is cheap. You can see people coming for 30-40 miles easy.

Tens of thousands of islands uninhabited as well.
good points, good ideas.........especially if you're the only one with radar, and, a faster boat than the bad guys.....and, if no one else wants the island you find........

As with any plan, it has it's holes, but, it is a good one......especially if you can get 6 other castaways
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Post by mdmf007 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:11 pm

" i would rather have a good plan today, than a perfect one tomorrow."

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Post by ygmir » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:14 pm

mdmf007 wrote:" i would rather have a good plan today, than a perfect one tomorrow."
well said.

I'd gladly pay you tuesday, for, a hamburger today..........
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Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:37 am

I really don't understand "Survivalists". We keep a huge back-pack that has just about everything we'd need to survive in case of an earthquake--that's my definition of survival.

But am I wrong thinking that most people associate "survivalists" with fringe groups that are predecting the worst case scenario where the country is in revolt and only the strong (or the white, depending on the group) servive?

Frankly, if that scenario would ever happen (and I don't believe it is likely at all), I don't think survival would be all that important to me. If the way of life I have come to enjoy would change that radically, I wouldn't want to be prepared for it. I think it would be time for my exit.

(just one of my random thoughts)

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Post by ygmir » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:55 am

jkisha wrote:I really don't understand "Survivalists". We keep a huge back-pack that has just about everything we'd need to survive in case of an earthquake--that's my definition of survival.

But am I wrong thinking that most people associate "survivalists" with fringe groups that are predecting the worst case scenario where the country is in revolt and only the strong (or the white, depending on the group) servive?

Frankly, if that scenario would ever happen (and I don't believe it is likely at all), I don't think survival would be all that important to me. If the way of life I have come to enjoy would change that radically, I wouldn't want to be prepared for it. I think it would be time for my exit.

(just one of my random thoughts)

JK
Well,
I'd only take exception to your "white" reference..........seems pretty stereotypical to me.........

yes, there are "fringe" groups, as you say, in that mode. I'd submit they are also quite a mix of race, gender, etc.......I'd submit it's the "white" ones that get the attention, for PC reasons......


But,
there are also "regular" people that would rather be wrong and have prepared for nothing, than, be caught unprepared.........same people that buy extra toilet paper, more canned goods than they need immediately, and, keep a few cans of gas around.........
perhaps as you describe your circumstance, preparing for "the big one"......
understanding, if it's really big, or, a different, more encompassing tragedy, it could be months before "they" come rescue you, or, send help.......
in that case, will a backpack suffice?
Would you really want to end it all, just because your cable tv won't work?

I think, and this applies to me in part:

the romanticism of living by your wits, improvising, struggling to overcome huge odds, and even thriving, drives some of this.
Radical self reliance, as such........
I've always enjoyed EOW novels and movies........
I think a mix of these can explain a lot of folks actions in this realm.
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Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:14 am

ygmir wrote:I think, and this applies to me in part:

the romanticism of living by your wits, improvising, struggling to overcome huge odds, and even thriving, drives some of this.
Radical self reliance, as such........
I think that in my case, life itself has provided me with 'living by my wits, improvising, struggling to overcome huge odds, etc.'. If I need any additional 'self reliance' challenges, I know it will be time for BM again soon. Life has presented me with the best and the worst and I have enjoyed every minute. So for me, if that sort of apocalyptic 'survival' scenario ever presented itself, it would be like the end of a great vacation, and it's checkout time; I have already paid my bill and I'm ready to go.

JK

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Post by can't sit still » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:15 am

Instead of crying about the economy, I thought that I should post some usable links.

Seeds; http://www.organicaseed.com/?gclid=CJHT ... YAodDhdQfQ

Preparing an emergency food supply;
http://www.fcs.uga.edu/pubs/current/FDNS-E-34-1.html

For those of you who have lots of time; http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/102 ... 10&Go.y=10

Keeping up with earthquakes; http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/

Lotsa off-grid stuff; http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/

More of; http://www.redrok.com/main.htm

Food, land and pop; http://dieoff.org/page40.htm

Wood fuel cooking; http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html

A getaway vehicle to go with your boat. The nose is 3/4 inch steel plate;
http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/landmaster/

A runabout to go with the landmaster; http://www.4wdonline.com/News/1998/980801.Mogster.html

A 2 wheeler to go with the Mogster; http://www.richmondlabs.com/Automotive/ ... istry.html

A rocket belt for fast getaways; http://www.canosoarus.com/07RocketBelt/Rocket02.htm

All you need to know about cooking; http://www.rubymurray.com/

Cold weather escape; http://www.mattracks.com/

Instant bunker; http://www.usbunkers.com/why.php

Desert camping; http://www.afrika-korps.com/afrikakorps ... ctures.htm

Dodging comets and asteroids; http://www.unb.ca/passc/ImpactDatabase/images.html

High tech guard dog; http://www.canosoarus.com/02Robosaurus/Robo02.htm
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Post by ygmir » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:24 am

here's a good one for finding all sorts of gov. surplus.......



http://www.govliquidation.com/
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Post by BAS » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:36 am

ygmir wrote:here's a good one for finding all sorts of gov. surplus.......



http://www.govliquidation.com/

Oh great! Now I know I am going to waste hours on the computer tonight! :lol:
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Post by Sail Man » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:43 am

Hey, thanks for the advice everybody. I have a raised deck that wraps around the back of my trailer with an approx 5'x10' storage room under it. But the deck itself is about 18' wide so come next spring I will expand my storage underneath. The room is secure, complete with its own roof so I will leave that as my main storage for primary gear. The idea of insulation, Gyre, sounds good. I may go ahead and use that blue foam board stuff like I did in my work shed. I cant completely enclose the underside of my deck due to the construction, so I will add "semi-secure" storage on either side for the extra supplies, older camp/outdoors stuff etc. Then I will see about getting some of the 10pd cans of dried food, probably from nitro pak.

Digging into the ground is not possible for me living in a trailer park, although I under stand the concept of a root cellar, and def. wish it was possible to have one, LOL at the very least for a tornado shelter, trailers suck for that. I have tried to maximize my storage in the house, adding cabinets in the kitchen. I could easily nail the doors shut and live comfortably for 2-3 months. Just let me make a beer run first :lol:
The mention of a boat for bugging out is intriguing. I have thought about that in regards to my sailboat. Def. not the capacity of my house, or even the back of our 2 4x4 trucks, but it does offer the option of a fuel-less bug out. But I think that would be more practical off the seaboards, cant get to far or hidden here, even in the great lakes.

WeDeliver, by add-on do you mean addition? I did build one onto my trailer, 10x30, for a new master suite (LOL, a trailer with a suite, sounds like an oxymoron) It did expand my internal storage, but took up the space I was gonna use for a veg. garden. Gardening boxes is another project next summer. I'm ex Air Force, spent 79-81 on Okinawa, closest I got to Nam. My job was flight-line defense, air base ground defense. Did a training tour at an Army camp, Camp Bullis in Texas playing war games, learning fire-team tactics, basic infantry shit. Most of our instructors had been in Nam. Boo coo was just some of the vernacular we picked up over there, as I'm sure you can attest too. Course I also enjoyed picking up drinky girls, buts thats another thread :lol:
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Post by wedeliver » Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:01 am

Sail Man wrote:...
WeDeliver, by add-on do you mean addition? I did build one onto my trailer, 10x30, for a new master suite (LOL, a trailer with a suite, sounds like an oxymoron) It did expand my internal storage, but took up the space I was gonna use for a veg. garden. Gardening boxes is another project next summer. I'm ex Air Force, spent 79-81 on Okinawa, closest I got to Nam. My job was flight-line defense, air base ground defense. Did a training tour at an Army camp, Camp Bullis in Texas playing war games, learning fire-team tactics, basic infantry shit. Most of our instructors had been in Nam. Boo coo was just some of the vernacular we picked up over there, as I'm sure you can attest too. Course I also enjoyed picking up drinky girls, buts thats another thread :lol:

Yes, trailer park talk didn't allow for something as quaint as Addition, so we called 'em add on's. You do make it sound classy though! Is your "addition" larger then the trailer?? Mine even had a "mud room" and area for stacking firewood inside.

I think the term I remember the most from Nam was "didi mou mofo".. which we thought meant "get the fuck outa the way really fast or I'll shoot your ass" (I returned from Nam through the Medivac system and spent a little time at Camp Jama (??))
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Post by Sail Man » Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:18 am

jkisha wrote:I really don't understand "Survivalists". We keep a huge back-pack that has just about everything we'd need to survive in case of an earthquake--that's my definition of survival.

But am I wrong thinking that most people associate "survivalists" with fringe groups that are predecting the worst case scenario where the country is in revolt and only the strong (or the white, depending on the group) servive?

Frankly, if that scenario would ever happen (and I don't believe it is likely at all), I don't think survival would be all that important to me. If the way of life I have come to enjoy would change that radically, I wouldn't want to be prepared for it. I think it would be time for my exit.

(just one of my random thoughts)

JK
JK, interesting thoughts. For me alot of it stems from the good old boy scout days and a survival kit, just stepping it up a notch. OK, a couple notches :D I personally am not associated with any radical fringe society group, unless you count the burner community :P

Me personally, I just would like to do what I can to survive a reasonable disaster, depression era etc. I probably cant do much to survive asteroids the size of Texas, Global Nuclear War or a plague ala the Stand. Hell, I'm barely surviving 8 yrs of Bush :lol:

Being involved in EMS/VFD for a # of years has def. brought me onto the frontline of first responding to any local disaster, natural or man-made. Since 9/11 we have had to learn a new Incident Command system, NIMS, ramped up Hazmat training, worked to improve comm. not just among ourselves but also other agencies, PD for exp. Hell, even the post office where my wife works as a carrier is getting into the game plan, testing the delivery of anthrax meds to their patrons. I believe they are either going to or have already tested in Minn. a large scale delivery test.

Speaking of large scale tests, for those of you in Cal., how did the tests they recently ran there across the state go? What did they learn initially?

JK, your last comment about "time to exit" is very compelling, and personal in its choice. I can agree with you, but what scares me is "leaving" in a state of chaos before my family, I have 2 kids, 1 is 6 and I shudder to think what could befall him without "Papa" around. Of course I would rather not take him out, Stage Left, as it were, with me. I guess it's just that I would like to be around to try and insure he has a long and prosperous life.
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Post by ygmir » Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:33 am

Sail Man wrote:Hey, thanks for the advice everybody. I have a raised deck that wraps around the back of my trailer with an approx 5'x10' storage room under it. But the deck itself is about 18' wide so come next spring I will expand my storage underneath. The room is secure, complete with its own roof so I will leave that as my main storage for primary gear. The idea of insulation, Gyre, sounds good. I may go ahead and use that blue foam board stuff like I did in my work shed. I cant completely enclose the underside of my deck due to the construction, so I will add "semi-secure" storage on either side for the extra supplies, older camp/outdoors stuff etc. Then I will see about getting some of the 10pd cans of dried food, probably from nitro pak.

Digging into the ground is not possible for me living in a trailer park, although I under stand the concept of a root cellar, and def. wish it was possible to have one, LOL at the very least for a tornado shelter, trailers suck for that. I have tried to maximize my storage in the house, adding cabinets in the kitchen. I could easily nail the doors shut and live comfortably for 2-3 months. Just let me make a beer run first :lol:
The mention of a boat for bugging out is intriguing. I have thought about that in regards to my sailboat. Def. not the capacity of my house, or even the back of our 2 4x4 trucks, but it does offer the option of a fuel-less bug out. But I think that would be more practical off the seaboards, cant get to far or hidden here, even in the great lakes.

WeDeliver, by add-on do you mean addition? I did build one onto my trailer, 10x30, for a new master suite (LOL, a trailer with a suite, sounds like an oxymoron) It did expand my internal storage, but took up the space I was gonna use for a veg. garden. Gardening boxes is another project next summer. I'm ex Air Force, spent 79-81 on Okinawa, closest I got to Nam. My job was flight-line defense, air base ground defense. Did a training tour at an Army camp, Camp Bullis in Texas playing war games, learning fire-team tactics, basic infantry shit. Most of our instructors had been in Nam. Boo coo was just some of the vernacular we picked up over there, as I'm sure you can attest too. Course I also enjoyed picking up drinky girls, buts thats another thread :lol:
why is digging in the ground not an option......?
I assume you rent the space, but, if you make it just say, 4x6x6......lots of storage, insulated, you could both hide there in a tornado, not comfortable, but, as understand, it's not for a long time. and, if you leave, you just pull the side boards and fill it back in....

just a thought.
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:51 am

Personally, I'm not forecasting Armageddon. That's because I'm not going to travel to Iran or a few other unlucky places.
Citicorp says that the price of gold will go to at least $2,000. Gold doesn't really go up or down. 100 years ago, 1 oz of gold would buy you a good suit. Today 1 oz of gold will buy you a good suit. In 1965 you could buy a gallon of gas for 1 silver quarter. Today, you can buy a gallon of gas for 1 silver quarter.
So, if gold is at $2,000 what will it cost for meat,,, bread,,, don't forget chocolate? How about natural gas and heating oil. Almost all the pension funds are broke. How will granny buy heating oil at $8.50 a gallon?
The FED is creating huge amounts of currency inflation. How soon will it become price inflation. GOV consumes 36% of the GDP. Since GOV buys with fresh printed money, they can always afford whatever they want. YOU have to compete with GOV for what you need to survive. As supplies get tighter, GOV will bid up the price to insure that GOV has no shortages. Do YOU have a Money printing press?

The Agriculture dept says that farmers can't get commercial credit to begin preparing their fields. That means YOU have to compete with GOV for scarcer food supplies.

When food scarcity and price is a problem, civil insurrection becomes a problem.
If you complain about starving to death, you can be declared an enemy combatant :shock:
If you add in fuel scarcity because Israel and America lit up Iran,,,, and Iran lit up saudi, then we will have higher prices and more scarcity.
Throw in a dollar default, and scarcity will be worse.
Not armageddon, just a lot of pissed off hungry people :mrgreen:
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Post by mdmf007 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:21 pm

you dont need to face armageddon or a global breakdown to need survival skills and supplies.

Civil unrest, major natural disaster or even massive unemployment and then your evicted or foreclosed on with no other options is possible.

Case in point - Western Washington was hit by a monumental wind storm 2 decembers ago. Millions of customers went without power for for a week, with some areas taking 2 or 3 weeks. I had 17 members of my extended family staying with us.

Generator powered our entire house, and it was business as usual, our food supplies were adequate and I have a cistern of fresh water.

Gas stations cant pump without power, supermarkets were empty in a day or two. We felt fortunate.

Another point - My neighbor lost everything in shitty decisions in the market, he is too old to work 40 hour weeks, and has to live on his USAF retirement. he elected to sell his house as he cant afford the taxes now, and retire to his boat. He plans to sail the world non-stop and see if he can turn his house sale money back into the nest egg he had before in a few years.

I dont get the "White's survive comment" but thats ok. it did not come across as a raacist thing.
later

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Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:44 pm

Sail Man wrote:JK, your last comment about "time to exit" is very compelling, and personal in its choice. I can agree with you, but what scares me is "leaving" in a state of chaos before my family, I have 2 kids, 1 is 6 and I shudder to think what could befall him without "Papa" around. Of course I would rather not take him out, Stage Left, as it were, with me. I guess it's just that I would like to be around to try and insure he has a long and prosperous life.
I think everything is different when you have kids. For many they are 'blessings' for me they would be a 'curse'. I would never want that much responsibility--what if you fuck up? There's absolutely nothing you can do about it! :shock:

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Post by gyre » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:39 pm

I can tell you how to strap a mobile home down in the wind.

I would really suggest more than a little insulation.
i plan on using at least 6 inches in my container with venting.
If it doesn't get hot, venting may not be crucial.
I plan an envelope of wood with fibreglas around it.
Separating the walls helps.
I think the loss of space is worth it.
I have 2" insulated trailers and once they heat up, they stay hot.
Even a little makes a big difference.
For hot areas, venting is more important than insulation.
Colder areas, it really counts.
If I built, I would use two feet of insulation, and outer rooms acting as additional insulation.
Heating systems can be almost non-existent and ac very small with super-insulation.
This can pay for much of the insulation costs.

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Post by Sail Man » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:53 pm

wedeliver wrote:
Sail Man wrote:...
WeDeliver, by add-on do you mean addition? I did build one onto my trailer, 10x30, for a new master suite (LOL, a trailer with a suite, sounds like an oxymoron) It did expand my internal storage, but took up the space I was gonna use for a veg. garden. Gardening boxes is another project next summer. I'm ex Air Force, spent 79-81 on Okinawa, closest I got to Nam. My job was flight-line defense, air base ground defense. Did a training tour at an Army camp, Camp Bullis in Texas playing war games, learning fire-team tactics, basic infantry shit. Most of our instructors had been in Nam. Boo coo was just some of the vernacular we picked up over there, as I'm sure you can attest too. Course I also enjoyed picking up drinky girls, buts thats another thread :lol:

Yes, trailer park talk didn't allow for something as quaint as Addition, so we called 'em add on's. You do make it sound classy though! Is your "addition" larger then the trailer?? Mine even had a "mud room" and area for stacking firewood inside.

I think the term I remember the most from Nam was "didi mou mofo".. which we thought meant "get the fuck outa the way really fast or I'll shoot your ass" (I returned from Nam through the Medivac system and spent a little time at Camp Jama (??))
The trailer is 14x62. The addition is 10x30. When I did that I re-sided the whole trailer, all new windows, re-shingled it. It's def warmer now. We considered a gas stove but couldn't really find a way to fit it in. A wood burner would be nice. Maybe one day. No mud room, that would also have been nice. It was suggested to me to use the blue foam board insulation behind my skirting and add a sm duct to heat the underneath and then be able to not need heat tape but we got cats all over the park so my luck they would appreciate it way too much
:roll:

I flew Flying Tiger over and back. I remember FT flights coming from Cambodia re-fueling at Kadena, the crews on them were aghast as the Cambodians did not know anything about plumbing, and were crapping and pissing everywhere BUT the can :shock:

Let's see, what other phrases did I learn? Oh, yeah....."Hey Mamasan, how much for your daughter?" :lol:
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Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:59 pm

mdmf007 wrote: I dont get the "White's survive comment" but thats ok. it did not come across as a raacist thing.
later
I don't think it was meant as a racist thing per se. I think I might tend to associate the 'white supremacy/skin head' groups with survivalists; but this is only based on some TV documentary I saw years ago.

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Post by Sail Man » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:08 pm

gyre wrote:I can tell you how to strap a mobile home down in the wind.

I would really suggest more than a little insulation.
i plan on using at least 6 inches in my container with venting.
If it doesn't get hot, venting may not be crucial.
I plan an envelope of wood with fibreglas around it.
Separating the walls helps.
I think the loss of space is worth it.
I have 2" insulated trailers and once they heat up, they stay hot.
Even a little makes a big difference.
For hot areas, venting is more important than insulation.
Colder areas, it really counts.
If I built, I would use two feet of insulation, and outer rooms acting as additional insulation.
Heating systems can be almost non-existent and ac very small with super-insulation.
This can pay for much of the insulation costs.
When I built my addition it was basically stick built. It rests on a 4" slab with anchors sunk into the concrete before it set, these are attached by chain to the correct me if I'm using the wrong term the floor plate? to which the floor joists are attached to. I used hurricane straps for all the ceiling joists. The addition is lag bolted to the trailer itself. Along the trailer side I basically have 2x4 walls times 2 abutting each other. 1 half is bedroom (10x15) and the back is walk-thru closet to bathroom. I think this closet represents the safest place if I do get caught with one of Michigans killer F1's. Not to downplay even an F1, but I'd probably be a little more proactive if we were in a more active tornado area.
The problem with my shed under the deck is that in the winter it dips into single digits alot, occasionally below. In the summer it gets hot as the dickens and can be very humid. The wall is laid exterior to 4x4's so I do actually have that depth available to insulate without losing room. Would you rec. that Gyre? I do have cross-vents on 3 sides. When I enclose the rest of the deck, instead of the lattice that exists, I plan on using T-111. That will help cut down on the bitter cold winds in the winter, but also reduce breezes for venting in the summer. I will put in vents in the T111 though. Conceivably, If I can move some stuff outside into the new storage from the house, I will have room inside for more dry good storage. Oh, and a little FYI. Sauerkraut doesnt do will stored long term. Ask me how I found that one out :shock:
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Post by Sail Man » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:11 pm

jkisha wrote:
Sail Man wrote:JK, your last comment about "time to exit" is very compelling, and personal in its choice. I can agree with you, but what scares me is "leaving" in a state of chaos before my family, I have 2 kids, 1 is 6 and I shudder to think what could befall him without "Papa" around. Of course I would rather not take him out, Stage Left, as it were, with me. I guess it's just that I would like to be around to try and insure he has a long and prosperous life.
I think everything is different when you have kids. For many they are 'blessings' for me they would be a 'curse'. I would never want that much responsibility--what if you fuck up? There's absolutely nothing you can do about it! :shock:

JK
How true, how true. The 6 yr old lives with me, the 22 yr old lives about 200 miles north, precisely to the 100 acres my Mom owns that I would bug out to.

Brings to mind the last War of the World movie with Tom Cruise.
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Post by gyre » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:25 pm

Unless you're storing things that are okay outside, I always think insulation helps.
I think control of temperatures is needed for storage due to condensation during heat cycling, aside from the direct effects.

Keep in mind that moisture control is important.
If you use fibreglas you have to keep humidity down to control effectiveness and if you use foam, you have to control any that is trapped.
I think it's worth giving up a foot of width in an 8 foot wide container.

If you want to vent heat, any radiant barrier helps, just like burning man.
It's important to vent low to intake cool air and high to vent the hot air.
Upper vents should be as large as possible.
If you can separate an attic space for heat ventilation, that helps too.
Reflectix works for heat.
I'll probably use reflectix under fibreglas in the container.
Sprayed urethane foam is acceptable too.
Fibreglas may be better for venting heat from.
I'll be using an inch of space on the sides and as much as possible on the top for air gaps.
I think multiple layers for venting works, especially with radiant barriers.
Unfortunately insulation by itself doesn't block heat very effectively, just slows it down.
When I open a trailer on a cool night after a hot day, they are still too hot to go into at first.
Better than not having insulation always though.

Foam does not have a higher R factor than fibreglas, but it can be structural and even applied outside if coated.

I find mono epoxy ester is a great vapor barrier.
In stark white it helps visibility too.
Takes a while to cure if it's thick.

You need a vapor barrier inside fibreglas.
The epoxy works.
Really helps in air conditioned rooms.
If you have a slab floor for storage, a barrier is a good idea.
Tyvek is a solution too and foam is a barrier to some degree.
The foil covered foam is a barrier.

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Post by gyre » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:33 pm

A several week or several month lack of supplies is very possible.
We had two events due to wind and ice that did that here.
I was ten days without power myself and no grocery stores with power or places to eat.
Dhalgren can happen quickly.
I think the likelihood of these things happening as a short term thing is high.
Let's hope longer is avoided.

I don't know what T111 is, unless you're referring to the Tatra.

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Post by wedeliver » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:00 pm

gyre wrote:....
I don't know what T111 is, unless you're referring to the Tatra.
Plywood sheet siding is sometimes used on inexpensive buildings, sometimes with grooves to imitate vertical shiplap siding. (One example of such grooved plywood siding is the type called T1-11 ["tee-one-eleven"—often written T111 ].)
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Post by Sail Man » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:05 pm

ygmir wrote: why is digging in the ground not an option......?
I assume you rent the space, but, if you make it just say, 4x6x6......lots of storage, insulated, you could both hide there in a tornado, not comfortable, but, as understand, it's not for a long time. and, if you leave, you just pull the side boards and fill it back in....

just a thought.
The lots are very narrow, 10' from my west side to the next trailer, and tech. that is "his" land.
The south side where the deck is has a row of mature pines 10-12 feet away, and roots galore. I know because that is were I dug out the gradual slope it's on to pour a concrete slab for my shed. The east side where my addition is only 10' wide, too narrow with existing landscaping in place, farther back where I have more space it is a swale that always floods in the winter, not to mention it has a telephone pole in the middle of it. Down south here in SE Michigan they don't allow trailers on private property, and the parks are not very gracious with space. Basically, my plan is to finish fixing up/remodling and sell the place, and either buy a "real" house, or move onto a bigger sailboat. But then that idea requires yet another thread: "So, how do I shower on a boat in freezing temps" :lol:
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Post by ygmir » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:17 pm

well,
that's clear enough.........dang........

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Post by mdmf007 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:25 pm

I once heard a story about a fella that couldnt build a tornado shelter because of issues like the above - so he bought a bank vault at a surplus sale, and made it openable from the inside, installed lights and had it prepped for the "Big one" it was smaller - about 6x6x4. The big one came, and his trailer was obliterated - his bank vault was ok though.

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Post by gyre » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:51 pm

Not allowed on private land?
That stinks.
See if you can turn it into part of a building.
I bet you can.
May not be worth it though.

If you need a storm shelter, might be possible to get permission.
Saw a news bit on a guy who carved into rock under a mobile home park.
Everything for miles was swept off the area and they came out okay.
Make him look smart.

My friend strapped right over the top of his and anchored the ends.
Survived a storm that destroyed many in the park and damaged all.
He had the only anchored one in the whole place.

It's possible to put shutoffs that kill gas and electricity in case of a fire or earthquake.
Or a gas circuit breaker that reacts to leaks.

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