OT; need help with dubbing VHS cassettes to DVDs.

[Elliot]

I've taken on a project to dub 50 VHS video cassettes to DVDs -- several copies of each. About half done. Except... the f#$%^&*g things don't work! I've sent out some samples, and people are reporting that the discs won't play. Only one reports being able to view the film. They play fine on the machine that recorded them. WTF?

The machine is a Magnavox MRV700VR, DVD+RW/VHS Recorder. The instructions say to use DVD+R or DVD+RW discs. I started with +RW, but discovered that +R costs less. The one that works is a +R.

Possible clues:
On a few occasions, a disc has refused to record, and there has been a message on the screen about some sort of wrong kind of disc. Once, I noticed a message that said something about PAL (as in the European TV system). Other times, the message was something else -- I regret I don't remember what it said. May have been something about some kind of zones -- not sure. But in all cases the disc recorded after I took it out and put it back in, maybe a couple of times.
One of the guys I have sent discs to lives in Europe, and he has a machine that is supposed to play any DVD in the world -- he calls it a "zone free" machine (my best translation). Doesn't work.

One guy suggested I try -R discs, but that conflicts with the instructions.

I thought a DVD was a DVD. Surprise! What is it I need to learn? Sure appreciate any help!

[Box Burner]

If the VHS tapes are copyrighted they are most likely also copy protected. If that is the case you will not be able to copy them without a "break" for the copy protection. While you may be able to find a break for the copy protection, keep in mind that to copy movies that are protected is illegal. Just sayen. Some other things to check

make sure that your unit is not set to do a multisession disk or re recordable session. Sometimes those types of disks will not play back on another machine.

If the vhs tape is zoned for one region it probably will not work if is recorded to another zone type.

Haven't ever tried this but that is the only things I can see based on your post.

[Elliot]

I sure appreciate you trying to help me, Box Burner. But most of what you are telling me is "greek" to me.

I doubt that copy protection is involved. These are not commercial movies. These are a variety of amateur movies, unedited home movies, recordings of television newscasts, event promotional films, and such rubble. And they go back to the 1980s -- was copy protection even invented then? Most to the point, I do get the tapes copied -- that is, I can play the DVDs on my own machine.

multisession disk or re recordable session.

I'm afraid I don't know what this means, but I will look for it in the instruction booklet in the morning.

I need to learn about this zone stuff.

[DVD Burner]

Sounds to me like the DVD's are not finalized.
Are you sure they are?
At the end of the recording from VHS to DVD, does your Magnavox ask you to finalize before it ejects?
If not, you may have to go to the menu setup and choose to "Finalize the disk".

Hope that helps.

[DVD Burner]

Here is a link to the maual and I'm posting page 55 here ( the manual has a Picture description of what to look for):


Page 55
Finalize Disc 55
You can record and finalize DVD+Rs one time. After you fill a DVD+R or
complete all the recordings you want on a single DVD+R, finalize it.
Otherwise, the DVD+R will play only on this Recorder.To play the Disc on
other DVD Players, you must finalize it first.
Once you finalize a DVD+R, you cannot record on it anymore or make
editing changes.Therefore, make sure the Disc is as you want it before you
finalize it.
G
Before you begin, make sure the Recorder is in DVD mode. Press DVD so
the DVD light appears on the front of the Recorder.
1
Press SYSTEM MENU. Press s to select
in the top left
corner of the menu bar at the top of the TV screen.
2
Press L repeatedly to select
in the second screen, then
press B.
3
Press L repeatedly to select Finalize disc. Finalize disc appears
in the menu only when an unfinalized DVD+R is in the Recorder.
4
Press OK. “Finalizingâ€

[Sail Man]

Sounds to me like the DVD's are not finalized.
Are you sure they are?
At the end of the recording from VHS to DVD, does your Magnavox ask you to finalize before it ejects?
If not, you may have to go to the menu setup and choose to "Finalize the disk".

Hope that helps.

DVD Burner, you beat me to the punch, my thoughts exactly. Not to mention this thread wouldn't have been complete without your contribution

[Toolmaker]

I have found that some brand names of discs have issues. I use the Memorex discs. I have also found compat. issues with +R and have found that -R works in more of the older DVD players.

The disc finalization was already mentioned and could be another culprit. If its not the culprit than start using -R discs and send to the folks that had problems.

[Elliot]

Otherwise, the DVD+R will play only on this Recorder.

This may be it! That certainly sounds like my situation! (The one disc that does work on my neighbor's machine could be a fluke.)

I do have the hard copy manual, but I struggle to find information I need when I don't know what I need.

I remember the machine automatically finalizing some discs -- when I first started using it. And that took a while. But I think it quit taking that extra time.

It so happens, I'm using Memorex discs.

As for -R discs, the manual says that this machine can not record on those -- only play them.

I think I know what I'm going to be tinkering with this evening! I'll report back when I know something.

You guys all remember to look me up on the Playa whenever you need bicycle repairs!

[Elliot]

I couldn't wait until tonight....

BINGO! Not finalized. And -- miraculously, for a Luddite like me -- I was able to follow the procedure to finalize it. Just 119 more to finalize! Boy, that sure beats having to toss them all out and start over!

(Also... The discs that finalized automatically may have been the +RWs I used in the beginning. Not sure, but I'll just lay those aside for now.)

Woohoo! Thanks a million!

[gyre]

I have also seen suggestions to restrict speed to 4X and use certain brands of discs only.
Taiyo Uden sp? was one.

The zone thing is purely to annoy consumers.
If everyone had boycotted dvds when they tried this shit, the companies would wise up.
Copy protection goes back to the seventies and has never affected pirates at all.
The zone thing is to allow companies to overcharge for dvds in some countries.
There is a format that will not play in multi-zone players, on purpose.

I have never found a tape from Powderkeg that would even play in a vcr due to the heavy macro.

If you run a signal through a good tuner from a tape (if you can get it to play) like a Sony HF750 deck-1987 , I think it reliably scrubs out all the macro copy protection.
I think tuners have been shit for years because copy protection won't go through a good tuner, as it is garbage in the signal.

I am still trying to figure out dvds.

Tape is a more rugged, more reliable format until you get to certain hard drive systems.
Dvds exist for profit only.
Cheap to make.

If I can't record from it and record on it, I won't buy material in any format.
Why would I?
HDMI is about this too, obsoleting many older units.

Forums have been terrorized into censoring discussion of dvd burning even for legal purposes, such as what I want to do.

It's actually quite easy to mass produce copy protected dvds.
Much harder doing one at a time.
If I wanted to pirate, I can buy a machine that duplicates leaving the copy protection intact on the new disc.

I hope their own Frankenstein creation results in every company distributing their own material, as many music groups already do.

I never have bought digital music if I can't buy direct from the artist.
They get a much better cut that way.

Copy protection?
What they mean is 'Fuck the consumer!'
Fuck them all.

[Elliot]

Sure glad I'm not the only one who is frustrated over all these electronic complications!

Of course, VHS cassettes also have problems -- I have had to repair a couple to get them to play. That said, I'd rather work with the nuts and bolts of a mechanical cassette, than with the digital ghosts in a DVD!

I'm "finalizing" DVDs in a veritable assembly line now, and hopefully that will solve my problem. When I'm all done copying, we are offering the originals to the Graves Museum of Art.

[gyre]

Newer tape formats are all digital too, so you can still have fun with that.
I don't think they are as problematic as dvds though.
SVHS tapes are very affordable right now.

It is worth upgrading your picture coming off the vhs tapes if they are important.
I have a deck that does this, but it is done with outboard equipment as well.
Probably can be done with editing software in a computer too.
I can often make copies that are better than the original.
I will help if I can with that.

[Elliot]

Wow, sure appreciate that offer! But most of this is probably not worth the trouble. Hmmm... Now that I think about it, there is this one tape where the artist gives a tour of some of his major works in his gallery. I'll keep that possibility in mind.

[DVD Burner]

Why am I called DVD Burner?

[Elliot]

Why am I called DVD Burner?

Well, since we are all "Burners", I wasn't sure if maybe "DVD" stood for "Department of Vile Drink" or some such. But now I know that you are indeed The Great DVD+R-burning Authority and my savior on this topic.

[Toolmaker]

Why am I called DVD Burner?

Initially I thought it was cuz you were selling movies still in theatres on DVDs on some street corner. Now I know its cuz yer a software pirate that steals hundreds of thousands of dollars from Bill Gates.

[DVD Burner]

[Sail Man]

Now I know its cuz yer a software pirate that steals hundreds of thousands of dollars from Bill Gates.

Probably mere pocket change for that dude

[Box Burner]

You nailed it DVD Burner. I forgot that rerecordable and multisession disks have to be finalized.

[DVD Burner]

Hey, what can I say but thanks for taking my advise.
Most around here think I dont know what I'm talking about most of the time, but I appreciate you guys.

Thanks!

[Elliot]

Hey, what can I say but thanks for taking my advise.
Most around here think I dont know what I'm talking about most of the time, but I appreciate you guys.

Thanks!

Not so fast, hot shot!
They still won't play in one guy's machine. He gets a message that says "dirt on disc". Other DVDs, like my +RWs, work fine for him.
I'm waiting for reports from a couple of other people.

Would it be fair to say that this technology is not as user friendly as it could be?

[DVD Burner]

Did you change his copy of the DVD?
It actually may be dirty or scratched.
Yea, hey, let me know how they go.
I'm curious.

[Elliot]

I gave him three different ones of my recently finalized +Rs, and they all came up "dirty". Three -- a +RW and a couple of commercially made discs -- worked. I'll keep you posted.

[DVD Burner]

hmmmm, could his DVD player be dirty?
How old is his machine?

[Elliot]

hmmmm, could his DVD player be dirty?
How old is his machine?

That's my thinking also, because the SAME three discs subsequently worked fine in my neighbor's machine. I suppose these newfangled DVD machines are a bit more finnicky than my 78 RPM phonograph!

[DVD Burner]

ok.

[fciron]

Those 78's are almost a quarter inch thick! You can use one to club a hog and then later throw it on the turntable to romance your partner over a plate of bacon.

Indestructible!

[Elliot]

And later, when you want a bit more bass for dancing, all you have to do is grab a hammer and chisel and widen the boomp-boomps in the bakelite grooves. Try that with these newfangled digital thingies! Harrumph!

[gyre]

If you have the rare undamaged 78s, the sound quality is superb due to the speed of the discs, including the bass.

[Elliot]

Well, we are still having trouble. More players claiming "dirty disc" (different discs, too). Others just doing nothing -- some apparently getting stuck in "loading". Also, I had the opportunity to watch a couple of the discs skip randomly forward thru the film.
Failure. 150 blank discs and countless hours wasted.
And now... my recorder won't even record anymore. I hit "d.dubbing" as before, and nothing happens. Tried unplugging it for a week; still not. But of course, this is a blessing -- this finally stops me from spinning my wheels.

So....
What kind of machine should I buy? I need to copy 50 VHS tapes to DVDs -- five and more copies of each. And these discs need to work reliably in any DVD player that normal people are likely to have.

Wonder what it would cost to have it done commercially? Or have one step of the process done commercially -- that is, do only the VHS-to-one-DVD, or multiplying the DVDs. DVD Burner, you still here?