Tower of Babylon, is it still up?

AmericanFremin1 · Post by **AmericanFremin1** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:30 pm

Is there anyone who knows if the tower is still up? I have heard that it is a permanent fixture and marks the beginning of colonization of the playa. If it is still up i think we know where this whole thing is heading....

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:36 pm

There are no permanent fixtures out there.

LisaLuckyOne · Post by **LisaLuckyOne** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:41 pm

Except for my juicy booty, of course.

See ya'll (again!) in '09!

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:45 pm

No.
I saw the big crane and steel workers heading right for it on tuesday to take it down.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:51 pm

The concept of that entire project was to assemble it in such a way as to easily dissemble it and reuse all of the materials again in another project?

JK

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:14 am

AmericanFremin1 wrote:Is there anyone who knows if the tower is still up? I have heard that it is a permanent fixture and marks the beginning of colonization of the playa. If it is still up i think we know where this whole thing is heading....

HAHA he fell for it. Gotta love those playa rumors.. LNT bro.. someone cleans up almost everything after its all over.

I heard that rumor and another, it will be back next year slightly modified and larger wiht more beams. Probably equally as false as the colonization rumor.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:47 am

As I understand it, it's a very clever modular rapid assembly design.
It may be set up somewhere else or re-formed into another design.
Maybe it will be back.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:13 am

http://www.babylonartproject.com/Burnin ... bylon.html

JK

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:16 am

LisaLuckyOne wrote:Except for my juicy booty, of course.

See ya'll (again!) in '09!

By your own count, thats 4 posts, your only allowed 1 more

6, 6 posts, ah ah ahhhhhh

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:20 am

gyre wrote:As I understand it, it's a very clever modular rapid assembly design.
It may be set up somewhere else or re-formed into another design.
Maybe it will be back.

How come structures such as this are not ADA accessible? Is BMORG, and/or the BLM exempt from the regulations?

7, 7 posts ah ah ahhhhh

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:44 am

Sail Man wrote:
gyre wrote:As I understand it, it's a very clever modular rapid assembly design.
It may be set up somewhere else or re-formed into another design.
Maybe it will be back.
How come structures such as this are not ADA accessible? Is BMORG, and/or the BLM exempt from the regulations?

7, 7 posts ah ah ahhhhh

I was wondering when someone might open that can of worms.

I see physically challenged people struggling with their wheel chairs on the playa and my heart just goes out to them. I know how trying the playa can be to people without physicall disabilities. I just can't find words for the respect I have for them and their courage and fortitude.

But, if ADA compliance was a pre-requsite to every aspect of the event, I doubt there could be an event.

JK

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:08 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:There are no permanent fixtures out there.

A universal truth, Captain.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:12 am

Sail Man wrote:
gyre wrote:As I understand it, it's a very clever modular rapid assembly design.
It may be set up somewhere else or re-formed into another design.
Maybe it will be back.
How come structures such as this are not ADA accessible? Is BMORG, and/or the BLM exempt from the regulations?

7, 7 posts ah ah ahhhhh :P

I wonder at what point do we bump into "reasonable accomadation." I mean, I bet a lot of the projects are built at a lower price than the celing
as defined by the regulations. I'd also guess that the fact that they are temporary may have some bearing. What is unacceptable to me, is that there is no commitment to inclusion off-playa. Half the offices are not possible for me to reach, and there is apparently an on-going indifference to ensuring access at spark clubs and the like.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:32 pm

jkisha wrote:I was wondering when someone might open that can of worms. I see physically challenged people struggling with their wheel chairs on the playa and my heart just goes out to them. I know how trying the playa can be to people without physicall disabilities. I just can't find words for the respect I have for them and their courage and fortitude.
But, if ADA compliance was a pre-requsite to every aspect of the event, I doubt there could be an event.
JK

JK, I don't know that I agree with your "opening up that can of worms" but I understand what your getting at. I'm sure this subject has been broached before, after all the burn has been going on for some time now. Whether or not BMORG attempted to address it in the past is of course unknown by me. And likewise, I also have respect for anybody who has ANY challenge that takes courage and fortitude to slog it through life. I certainly see it in my job. And I also give a "hats off" to the people who help to make the burn enjoyable and accessible to everybody. Over in Tribe, there was a recent discussion regarding Burners with Autism, and if I remember correctly, Vision Impaired Burners also. While one of the principal's is radical self-reliance, I don't have any problem with anybody going, even if they require a support structure in place. After all, how many able-bodied/minded people go, only to crash and burn because they effed up?

theCryptofishist wrote: I wonder at what point do we bump into "reasonable accomadation." I mean, I bet a lot of the projects are built at a lower price than the celing
as defined by the regulations. I'd also guess that the fact that they are temporary may have some bearing. What is unacceptable to me, is that there is no commitment to inclusion off-playa. Half the offices are not possible for me to reach, and there is apparently an on-going indifference to ensuring access at spark clubs and the like.

Short of paving over the playa, or building a ramp to the Man, I'm not sure what could be done to make things more accessible, but I am always available to help out ANY burner that needs my assistance. Crypto, as far as off-playa is concerned, I could'nt agree with you more. While I don't navigate the world in a w/c, I do have to drag a cot around and I believe you know when I say that it can be a bitch all by itself. Everything has been built for able bodied peeps and I don't under stand why in this day and age it still takes arm twisting to make things easier for everybody.

OK, I'm getting dizzy with all this elevation, I'll get off my soapbox.

Next?!

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:43 pm

The are no "building codes" in Black Rock City. Nobody from the state or county "approves" any structures.

As far as zoning....

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:41 pm

There is a building code department at burning man.
I think I saw a camp cited for lack of mermaids.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:22 pm

I guess the only thing I meant by my ill chosen phraseology was it would be a nightmare if ADA compliance was required at BM. (Just think back to that thread trying to get public transportation for the old folks!)

JK

Post by **mdmf007** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:24 pm

wedeliver wrote:The are no "building codes" in Black Rock City. Nobody from the state or county "approves" any structures.

As far as zoning....

BMORg has to approve larger structures - they have safety in mind if people want to assemble a 100 foot tower for people to climb and hang out on. I guarantee you they are looking for engineers stamps, construction methods, etc.

As far as accesability; i would have loved to seen the man base being accesable. As built (brilliant and fun) it was impossible for a chair bound to think about getting to the top to take part.

cullen · Post by **cullen** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:37 pm

we could always do what we did in Iraq. bring in two room trailers and rent them out.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:48 pm

mdmf007 wrote:
wedeliver wrote:The are no "building codes" in Black Rock City. Nobody from the state or county "approves" any structures.

As far as zoning....
BMORg has to approve larger structures - they have safety in mind if people want to assemble a 100 foot tower for people to climb and hang out on. I guarantee you they are looking for engineers stamps, construction methods, etc.

As far as accesability; i would have loved to seen the man base being accesable. As built (brilliant and fun) it was impossible for a chair bound to think about getting to the top to take part.

There was no engineer that signed off on Babylon. No stamp, no plate. I did not see the drawings but if there was an engineer that signed off on the drawings he would have stamped the building. I checked with BMORG I could find no process to review, approve or disapprove and any ART built on the playa. I spent a good part of a day during this year and found that we are winging it when it comes to UBC.

If anyone has any info that shows a process of approval prior to occupancy by humans I would be interested.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:44 pm

wedeliver wrote:
mdmf007 wrote:
wedeliver wrote:The are no "building codes" in Black Rock City. Nobody from the state or county "approves" any structures.

As far as zoning....
BMORg has to approve larger structures - they have safety in mind if people want to assemble a 100 foot tower for people to climb and hang out on. I guarantee you they are looking for engineers stamps, construction methods, etc.

As far as accesability; i would have loved to seen the man base being accesable. As built (brilliant and fun) it was impossible for a chair bound to think about getting to the top to take part.
There was no engineer that signed off on Babylon. No stamp, no plate. I did not see the drawings but if there was an engineer that signed off on the drawings he would have stamped the building. I checked with BMORG I could find no process to review, approve or disapprove and any ART built on the playa. I spent a good part of a day during this year and found that we are winging it when it comes to UBC.

If anyone has any info that shows a process of approval prior to occupancy by humans I would be interested.

here ya go..

http://www.burningman.com/installations ... lines.html

feel free to click the various links to learn more.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:08 pm

Toolmaker, am I missing something? All I found is below.

Can you picture the county building inspector just looking at the power cables on the ground...

Any structure designed as an elevated viewing area should be considered carefully. How many people can it hold and how will you police it? If someone climbs up into it how do they exit without causing a traffic jam? Since you cannot dig holes in the playa you will have to use cable to secure your structure. Do you know what gauge is best for your needs? If you have not fully considered all aspects of your plan from a structural engineering perspective you have more research to do.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:18 pm

wedeliver wrote:Toolmaker, am I missing something? All I found is below.

Can you picture the county building inspector just looking at the power cables on the ground...

Uh, actually, I can!

JK

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:35 pm

The information on current tv SAST was that it is a fully rated and engineered system.
I would be very curious to see a detailed picture of the joint design.

I will try to look up more, but I don't feel like looking through three hours of SAST right now.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:59 pm

gyre wrote:The information on current tv SAST was that it is a fully rated and engineered system.
I would be very curious to see a detailed picture of the joint design.

I will try to look up more, but I don't feel like looking through three hours of SAST right now.

ok, that was a good one. I looked up SAST and found out I am a sexual addict.

Sexual Addiction Screening Test (SAST)

The joint design really turned me on..

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:17 pm

Short Attention Span Theatre

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:50 pm

gyre wrote:Short Attention Span Theatre

Well ok, but I like the sexual thing better. And of course Babylon was engineered, God I hope so... just to think if it wasn't.

I would be interested in the math about the base. How much mass is necessary to keep all the high weight upright. The posts, beams and connections all seemed pretty "typical", but the base and keeping the thing from falling over would be the true engineering achinevement of that building. All the rest was a pretty cool erector set.

I got a quick and easy elevator design that wouldn't need any power. Just ballast.. people get on at the top ride down, bringing people up from the bottom....here let me do the trig and engineer the thing..uhmmm 2 plus 2..yep it s safe.. max 10 people or 3000 lbs...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:53 pm

They were claiming it was a self centering and cinching joint, which makes assembly much quicker and easy to take apart and re-use.
I can't believe no one has made joints that do that before.

Interesting test.
Bathhouses?

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:29 am

[quote="Sail Man"]
How come structures such as this are not ADA accessible?/quote]

I cannot address BRC specific building codes; however, in the real world, a structure such as this is allowed an exemption to ADA requirements, since it is a temporary structure*. (as queried by My Favorite Fish)

Secondly, addressing the height/stability/engineering issue (sic: mdmf007/wedeliver): OSHA allows scaffolding/temp structures (which this would qualify as) to be built to height according to the following calculation: Height(H)=Narrowest part of the base(W) X 4. In other words, the structure can be 4 times taller than the narrowest part of the base of the structure. The base of the structure (including the outrigger legs) was approx. 60 feet (rough pace-off by me, actual numbers may vary). This means that they could have gone up to 240 feet high.**

*I know the temp ADA code frightfully well in this regard. I installed a temporary stage in a strip club (which they had to take down for 1 month out of every 9) because they could not install a permanent stage. If they had installed a permanent stage, they would have had to install an ADA ramp (which they had no room for) for all the wheelchair and crutch bound strippers.

**I am a OSHA certified "competent person" for temporary scaffold structures. Stick that in your "cites" pipe and smoke it.

Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to eat my last packet of playa-ramen.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:46 am

I've camped with the guy who built the tower. He runs a big construction firm and yes, indeed, it is a clever new design that can be quickly assembled and disassembled. The parts will all be used on real jobs.

Personally, I felt the tower was a bit weird for the Playa -- a bit too commercial. But lemme tell you, the guy is a long time first rate burner -- same guy who has the KazBus party bus.

Tower of Babylon, is it still up?

Tower of Babylon, is it still up?

Re: Tower of Babylon, is it still up?