Zeer pots

esper · Post by **esper** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:15 pm

Has anyone used these before? What did you think of it?

I've been thinking of modding one as a form of cooling and would appreciate some feedback. I'm thinking of a sealed, empty paint can (or something similar) as the inner pot with two tubes in it. The tubes go into the bottom of the can and serve as a cold water source.

I guess a buried coil could work effectively as well. Couple feet of coiled copper tubing. Maybe use my grey water for the evaporative source and do the two liter trick so I don't have to worry about refilling it a bunch of times.

The hoses are plumbed to a pump and a radiator with a fan blowing air over it and into my dwelling or a small version for inside my car or tent. I'm almost thinking of a water cooling kit for pc's, or at least just the pump and radiator with fans.

Run a small solar cell to top off a golf cart battery then I can camp in my car and sleep for a few hours when the sun comes up.

Thoughts please. Will do a prerun test hopefully within the next month.

hsdavis · Post by **hsdavis** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:25 pm

I'm not sure what the purpose of this device is, but I think you are trying to make some sort of air conditioner. If that's the case, why not just roll the windows in the car down and sleep when the sun is down and it's cooler. The device may work for cooling water, but what is the effort worth?
Let me know if i am wrong on the use of this thing.

esper · Post by **esper** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:39 pm

Well, it's my experience that during events like this most people are up when the sun is down so planning on sleeping then probably isn't the best thing to do.

Trying to sleep during the day can... well it can just suck with the heat and everything else. Plus I plan on sleeping in my car instead of a tent (I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that recommended you keep your vehicle at your camp site) and rolling down the windows could open up the possibility of massive amounts of dust/sand in my vehicle.

So yes, this is an attempt at a cheap form of AC but also has the dual purpose of helping to get rid of grey water at the same time.

Effort and material cost wise there should be very little that will be needed to make it work and make it fairly effective.

Not to mention the zeer pot being used for its intended purpose could solve some of those issues people seem to have with food going bad too quickly.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:54 pm

Check this page, all the way down:
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/22792

What you are naming (zeer pot) is not what you are describing (which is not evaporative cooling).

The zeer pot seems to use sand both as an insulation from outside heat plus the container for the evaporating water.

You describe a paint can as the inner pot, but you don't talk about what the outer pot is nor do you describe the insulation.

Having the water circulate from the paint can (where it loses its cool and picks up heat) to coiled copper tubing buried or in a radiator with air blowing over it (where it loses heat and picks up coolness), then back to the can is not evaporative cooling. Your car's cooling system works like this, and you don't lose water from your radiator or engine.

If the empty paint can is in the car, I suspect it will not be sufficient in coolness and size to cool the car.

Robotman sleeps in his car at Burning Man. Perhaps he'll see this thread and offer suggestions. You have an idea, but you appear to be mixing three different types of cooling systems.

esper · Post by **esper** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 am

Phil, I think you need to go back and take another look at that article. If I go down to the bottom of that page, that is a passive geothermal system, not an evaporative system. That is very much not what I'm going for.

I had assumed that since I said "inner pot" it was implying that there would also be an outer pot as well. Since I am talking about zeer pots please assume that I'm actually making a zeer pot with only the specific changes I've mentioned.

You also have it backwards, the water circulating in the paint can would lose heat there, then blow warm air over the radiator cooling it; which would be delivered into the vehicle or tent. Instead of using a paint can I could substitute that for the buried coil to exchange the heat into the pot.

There would be some type of large, outside insulating layer. Maybe a bucket, maybe a pot, whatever gives me the best btu/(mass/weight) ratio. A layer of sand would then surround the inner pot (whatever that may be). That inner pot would then be the fore mentioned paint can or a buried coil.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:10 am

I think you're overestimating the amount of cooling you can achieve and/or underestimating how much you'd need to make a difference inside a car or tent. Zeer pots are designed to keep a small insulated space relatively cool, that's it. The water evaporates very slowly.

You're probably better off dealing wish shade first, then some sort of swamp cooler which can be as big as you want it.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:42 am

Work out basic shelter first, eg dense shade that cools the ground underneath, before you start finagling.

esper · Post by **esper** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:42 am

Don't worry, I'm not looking to make frost on the inside of the windows or anything like that. Since my last name is Frost I guess I could make a bad joke there, but I'll refrain. ;)

No, I'm really looking at the system more as a synergistic effect. I'd like to evaporate my grey water and might as well do something useful with it while I'm doing that. If I can do it really cheaply then that's a huge bonus as well.

This just seems like the most cost effective solution for getting some minor cooling along with getting rid of my grey water. I would also like to not have to worry about some kind of setup or rig that could get large amounts of mist thrown off into adjoining camps.

Don't look at it from the perspective of being highly effective.

edit: Yes, shade is the first step with silver tarps.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:42 am

esper wrote:
I'd like to evaporate my grey water and might as well do something useful with it while I'm doing that.

Two comments, just based on my visualization of your project (understand that my abilities at visualizing can be limited at times).

1. If you have ever seen what an evap pond looks like after a week on the playa, you need to consider the effects of your system processing the grey water and will have to also make arrangements for pre-processing (filtering) the water before using it.

2. From my experience, swamp coolers provide only minimal cooling and is a proven technology using the direct effect of the evaporating water to cool the air. I don't think that evaporative cooling used to cool fluid passed through tubes would lower the temperature near enough to provide any cooling to the air what-so-ever.

I think the principle of the pots is pretty much limited to pots in their original design and purpose.

JK

Boijoy · Post by **Boijoy** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:49 am

get some nice reflective material... make a "lean to" by your car.. and sleep on a cot under it during the heat of the day. You can even run a small fan from your ciggy lighter. Your car is going to be an oven.. and if you die in there, no one will find you until Tues. or Weds. Just sayin.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:21 am

Boijoy wrote:get some nice reflective material... make a "lean to" by your car.. and sleep on a cot under it during the heat of the day. You can even run a small fan from your ciggy lighter. Your car is going to be an oven.. and if you die in there, no one will find you until Tues. or Weds. Just sayin.

I sleep in my car every year, and there are a few simple steps you can take to avoid making it an oven:
-Park so that the sun's arc describes a path down the length of your vehicle. In other words, into the rising sun. The downside of this is that you'll be facing the wrong way to keep the prevailing wind from dusting up your interior, but if you're not in and out of it constantly that won't be a big deal.
-While even just a plain tarp can make shade, using something reflective as Boijoy says makes a big diff...I made some panels by spraymounting mylar space blankets onto sheets of cardboard, and then clamped 'em to the roofrack. (Make an extra to shift around as the sun moves.)
-Make friends with someone in a RV, and park in their shade.
-Heat rises, so use your roof vent if you have one. There are two schools of thought, one being the "sealed tight" school and the other being the "free circulation" school. If you sleep during the day there'll be more breeze to flow through/over your car and cool you BUT it'll be much warmer than at night. If you have good shade, buttoning up tight can keep it cool enough for comfort even during the day. Bear in mind that "comfort" out there can be internal temps in the high nineties as opposed to the one-twenties. I call it cool enough if your stash of chocolate doesn't melt....

You'll be able to sleep when you're tired enough. Guaranteed.

esper · Post by **esper** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:43 am

Yeah, I've done many a year in the woods with 90+ heat, high humidity, and zero wind and then trying to sleep through it after having been up drumming all night. Many of those times even that tiniest little breeze was just awesome, so that's my thought with this whole thing. Is to just make that tiny little cooling breeze.

Oldguy · Post by **Oldguy** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:22 pm

A cool beer works for me.

You can make a desert frig with tin cans. A large outer can made of coffee tins or # 10 cans from the restaurant bin. A smaller inside can made of large stew tins or similar. The space between the cans is placed with a water absorbant material; loose sand ,soil ,fabric ,matting ,dryer lint :whatever will soak up water and evaporate it slowly. Put your beers ,or butter inside the inner can ;and put a plastic lid on.

The outer can is made with holes which are covered with air permmiable /water barrier membranes like banana bags, or fine mesh, or fine cloth that will keep in soaking materials and let air pass through it. Line the outside can before you add absorbant material. You can place the can in the shade where wind will hit it, or hang it from your shade structure.

You can ducttape stacks of cans for both inside solid can and outside holely can to make a practical size.. Keep your plastic lid on the inside can sealed. The ouside can can be left open for recharging with water or piss if you're really desperate. Make sure the inner can is sealed though.

This solution is cheap. It uses water evaporation to cool stuff in inner can. Make sure soaking material touches inner can for more rapid cooling.

Press that cool beer on your wrists and forehead before drinking...

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:56 pm

Whats a Zeer pot?

I envision a sort of Antelope.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:28 pm

What is Antelope?

I am not a pipe.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:33 pm

Me neither. But I'm not a pvc pipe.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:44 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Whats a Zeer pot?

I envision a sort of Antelope.

It's a relatively new invention that helped bring cooling and prosperity to some third world countries. Basically it's a clay pot within a pot. The outside pot is filled with sand and water is added. The inside pot can then hold vegetables or anything else that needs to remain cool, and covered. The entire contraption is then covered with a damp cloth and kept in the shade, preferably in a breeze. The evaporative effect of the water keeps the inside pot and its contents cool.

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:45 pm

jkisha wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:Whats a Zeer pot?

I envision a sort of Antelope.
It's a relatively new invention that helped bring cooling and prosperity to some third world countries. Basically it's a clay pot within a pot. The outside pot is filled with sand and water is added. The inside pot can then hold vegetables or anything else that needs to remain cool, and covered. The entire contraption is then covered with a damp cloth and kept in the shade, preferably in a breeze. The evaporative effect of the water keeps the inside pot and its contents cool.

JK

Is the cool relative to heat and humidity? Will it cool below ambient, in the shade, temps?

just wonderin........

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:49 pm

I have no clue. I just did a quick google search and read a bit about the concept the other day because somebody started posting about them and I was curious. Google it, there was a surprising amount of info--some interesting as to how it has helped those third world farmers markets actually turn a profit because they had time to sell their produce using the zeer coolers to keep things from spoiling.

Oh and I think the name is so wierd because it is actually named after the person that invented the concept.

JK

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:57 pm

Go to one of the articas, buy a bag of ice, tape it to your chest,
you will sleep nice and cool, and no, the melted ice is not considered gray water.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:59 pm

And since I thought of it , I am calling it the "tapeyourdickbag" cooling system.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:45 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badgir

http://heatisland.lbl.gov/CoolRoofs/Hea ... /#Sunlight
http://heatisland.lbl.gov/
Note that due to heat energy in the infrared and near infrared, it is not always obvious which colors will reflect heat.
Often carbon used as a cheap opaque material acts to absorb heat in seemingly light colors.

A friend informs me that layers of silver mylar gapped with cloth or some material to prevent conduction through contact is still in use as an insulation material.
Many layers are usually involved.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:14 am

http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2004/s ... ration.htm

Zeer pots

Zeer pots

cooling

Yes, it is evaporative cooling

Zeer pots

Re: Zeer pots

Shade