case studies

III · Post by **III** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:58 pm

it's possible to argue that the best way to confront lies and malicious attacks is with truth and clarification. censorship, or thr threat thereof, is a potential impediment to an open community.

however, by this point, i think allanon3 had the opportunity to make whatever posts he was inclined to, and demonstrated only an interest in undermining this community.

i wouldn't have advocated his removal, but i certainly don't think it falls outside of either the written tos, guidelines, or the unwritten "right to maintain this community for the use of all ."

(i suspect his banning may be surprise to those who thought the spirit of burning man is all about acceptance and unconditional love, though.)

as an adjunct question to this action - there's not much to prevent him from coming back as allanon4, or some other less obvious nickname, is there? (and that's based on the weak assumption that his account wasn't an obvious sock puppet of someone else).

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:00 pm

Alpha wrote: I'm curious, did you send a warning to Allanon03 letting him know that his access priveleges are in jeopardy?

Not recently. I had contacted him (or her, we don't know so I revert to the masculine) during the stopbmorg days, and got no response.

I did send him a message informing him of the account deactivation and the reasons why.

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:02 pm

Badger wrote:
As mentioned before I demand a retraction. A public retraction. What's available to me to insure I get it?

I informed him of your complaint, he told me why he said it and offered to apologize. I said I thought that was a good idea and he has dutifully apoligized and retracted his comment in the Apology thread.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:09 pm

I would like to draw the admins' attention to this post:
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 2764#42764

and request that "DVD Burner" explain how he knew that "Allanon03" did
not intend a personal attack on me. Tony?

And I'd like to ask what the community's opinion is on a person with
multiple accounts who abuses one account to the point of having it
banned. What should the effect be on the other accounts? Any?
Probation? Does it matter that some of the accounts are relatively
inoffensive?

What if the other accounts can't behave either? Is repeated malicious
behavior with different accounts grounds for banning the person entirely?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:13 pm

precipitate,

I'm not going to go there with you because I already see your mistake and do not want to take advantage of you that way.

I suggest we leave it alone.

PLEASE!

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:15 pm

Tony,
Please, point out my mistake. Go there.

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:20 pm

III wrote: (i suspect his banning may be surprise to those who thought the spirit of burning man is all about acceptance and unconditional love, though.)

This is humor, yes?

III wrote: as an adjunct question to this action - there's not much to prevent him from coming back as allanon4, or some other less obvious nickname, is there? (and that's based on the weak assumption that his account wasn't an obvious sock puppet of someone else).

This is absolutely true, and one of the biggest reasons I took no action until now. I am fairly confident this poster already has another sock or two, tho I am loathe to start investigating IP's unless pressed. At the very least, he needed to get the message that his behavior is intolerable. I don't have to make it entirely without inconvenience to harass us.

The best of all possible outcomes would be for this to draw attention to the fact that Allanon03 only has the power that the other eplayans give him.
If they (and by "they" I mean you) would stop rising to every wriggly little worm he waves in front of you, and start more Mayo threads when he and others like him get going again, the eplaya could be a lot more fun for everyone.

If that doesn't happen, then the best I can offer is that I am not going to fear cries of censorship if a user has a demonstrable inability to play by the (really very few) rules we have.

BTW - we are stilll looking for php help. I have someone who is ramping up on phpbb to take over our mod development as Spanky is too slammed to keep up with it. It'll take a while yet. The sooner I have more help, the sooner you get your plonker.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:23 pm

technopatra wrote: BTW - we are stilll looking for php help. I have someone who is ramping up on phpbb to take over our mod development as Spanky is too slammed to keep up with it. It'll take a while yet. The sooner I have more help, the sooner you get your plonker.

What's the deal with the hack plonk?

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:27 pm

DVD Burner wrote: What's the deal with the hack plonk?

No one's had the time to test is properly. All we;d need is for someone to join the eplaya team, learn our CVS, and have at it.

I must say, DVDB, that I find it curious that you are the biggest proponent of the tool that folks have been asking for so they can specifically block you. This might be good fodder for a case study, too.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:32 pm

technopatra wrote: I must say, DVDB, that I find it curious that you are the biggest proponent of the tool that folks have been asking for so they can specifically block you. This might be good fodder for a case study, too.

<sigh> I've been trying real hard too. I just want to be left alone and have fun at the same time. and I do have tons of fun with those on here that I have fun with. It just seems that there are those that are having a bad time with me having a good time and sometimes I (sometimes others ) have a good time on thoses that are having a bad time of me having a good time.

I tried to state why I wanted the plonker months ago just for that reason.
plus I'm on several boards plus I take care of my stuff. I'd help but hey, I asked about you guys and the CVS.

hey, I dont know.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:35 pm

So, in a nutshell, you want to continue to shit all over the eplaya in the
fashion to which you've become accustomed without regard to the many
people whose experience it affects negatively?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:36 pm

precipitate wrote:So, in a nutshell, you want to continue to shit all over the eplaya in the
fashion to which you've become accustomed without regard to the many
people whose experience it affects negatively?

No I want you and those that want to, to plonk me so that the rest of us can continue to have fun.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:40 pm

The substantive difference between the two being what?

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:40 pm

DVD Burner wrote: No I want you and those that want to, to plonk me so that the rest of us can continue to have fun.

Well I guess I have to ask - who is it, besides yourself, that it is you think is having fun with your responses? I see a very distinctive pattern - the more attention you give someone, the more apt they are to make a complaint. The ones who are more peripheral do not make complaints, but I don't know fi that can be counted as having fun.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:53 pm

technopatra wrote: Well I guess I have to ask - who is it, besides yourself, that it is you think is having fun with your responses? I see a very distinctive pattern - the more attention you give someone, the more apt they are to make a complaint. The ones who are more peripheral do not make complaints, but I don't know if that can be counted as having fun.

Right. lets make those that have fun with me, and I fun with, feel uncomfortable. That makes lots of sense. There are more people here that get bullied by club five on a regular basis that I have enough guts to stand up to.

Not a good idea to name names. You have access to my PM. Look at it.
and it's really too bad it only holds 30 PM's at a time.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:10 pm

Look here's the thing so that I dont get too much off track.

I went out of the way to find several plonkers. I did'nt ask for any credit though none was given but i did it anyway.

There were those here that said they were "Php specialists" and "they would donate time to eplaya".

What's up.

the only specialists I've seen so far have not specialised in what they've said so far.

these same people are upset with me because of what. they have no plonker?

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:20 pm

My apologies. I did not mean to make you feel uncomfortable or point fingers. I just don't understand. We can talk more offline.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:30 pm

> the only specialists I've seen so far have not specialised in what they've
> said so far.

If you're referring to me, then I am doing what I volunteered to do. And I
said that when finished with that project I would be willing to take a look
at other things as well, as needed. I do have a life, you know.

> these same people are upset with me because of what. they have no
> plonker?

No. I'm "upset" with you because you're a shit-stirrer whose only
contributions to this community, that I've been able to discern, is your
wanton use of content-free smilies.

Plonk only goes so far. In a functioning community, you shouldn't need it,
or at least not much. We had this discussion last year when your activities
prompted the first plonk request.

Listen, Tony, I realize that your ego gets a huge kick out of this. Mine
doesn't. I'd prefer to do nothing more than never see another
communication from you again, but current circumstances don't allow that.

Dammit, I know I'm feeding the troll here, but I'd really like to see
answers or responses to my previous questions re: your use of
sockpuppets.

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:36 pm

OK I created a sock puppet thread for this. Please continue this conversation there so we can get back to the business of examining case studies here.

Thank you for your cooperation.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:47 pm

Thank you TP.

I have picked up this topic @ the sock puppet thread

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:04 pm

FWIW, I've seen not much since the changeover that would lead me to suggest evicting anyone aside from the [other person's name][obscene reference] character, but I don't read everything. Not seeing the full record, including complaints to the admin, I'd trust tp's judgment.

Fake identities in general (other than recognizable "playa" names), along with no personal info linked from a profile or able to be gleaned from posting history, automatically lead me to take postings under those names with a 100g grain of salt. Readers who cannot distinguish the few kooks, crackpots & malicious trolls from more sincere contributors, and can't avoid overreacting to the benefit of no one, perhaps deserve to get sucked in, IMO.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:12 am

Nothing wrong with supporting the ADA, but here? And with our TOS / Etiquette rules? Since it's Thursday, it's a good candidate for "Smackdown" time.

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 3775#43775

I am an authorized coolneon representative with fantastic service and excellent prices. I've been lighting people up for the playa for a couple of years now.

Visit http://www.hovering.com/coolneon/ for all the details.

AND your purchase goes to help out the ADA (American Diabetes Association) so check it out and let's help find a cure while we light up the night!

Alpha · Post by **Alpha** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:38 pm

That post got my hackles up, too, but if you go back and read the posts before it (which are long since history in our memories) I think you'll find that the poster did not make too far of a jump in promoting his store. The thread was specifically discussing retail outlets for ElWire and CoolNeon products.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:00 pm

Sheesh, another one. Popping up like flies at a picnic today:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 3807#43807

III · Post by **III** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:00 pm

my take - it's not an inappropriate post, considering the prior discussion. however, it might be prudent for the admin to put a post right after that one (or even add an administrative comment to the post, since they still have the ability to edit them) that the content is skating close to the edge of the user guidelines.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:01 pm

Trey, your right, I think a little electronic caution tape in the form of an admin post would be helpful.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:02 pm

Did'nt I read somewhere that TP was try to decide weather to put such things in a new catagory?

III · Post by **III** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:06 pm

the tent one is probably just on the other side of that line, however. it's not as if he just signed up to promote that page, though.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:39 pm

At least we have some textbook examples...which might be something else to consider. Save a few of these threads into a new section where the admins can showcase what is and is not acceptable.

I don't mean to insult anyone with that comment because most of us know the difference, but some people learn things in different ways. You can tell them something over and over and they don't get it but you show them once and it clicks. And vice versa.

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:32 am

technopatra wrote: at this location:
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 3324#43324
ePlaya Forum Index -> Burning Man 2003 -> Rumors & Lies -> Dont visit the Springs in 2003 - Complete BULLSHIT

Citing Section 7. e of the TOS, I have deactivated Allanon03.

Which leads to thread change to Case Studies-

technopatra wrote: at this location:
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 3339#43339
ePlaya Forum Index -> ePlaya Feedback -> Policies & Our Community -> case studies

I have been fair, tolerant, and objective, and have finally come to the conclusion that Allanon03's continual harassment of members of this community and his relentless, unfounded accusations are severe enough to invoke the TOS for the deactivation of his account.

Dear Community,
Relatively speaking, it would be pointless for all present to stir and pick through the e-threads for the he-said, she-said where it involves ex-member "Allanon3". Granted, it is also pointless to speculate on whose hand wears the sock named "Allanon3": There's really 'no getting our arms around it- all loose laundry like- without it spilling out somehow, this way and that, in confusion'. To save scroll, as necessary, let's relegate that load of replies about "Allanon3" to its own topic (I'll leave it to another user to create such a thread.) named perhaps "The Trial of Allanon3".

The case in point for this post, and its location in Case Studies, is about Eviction, meaning the de-activation of accounts by a single Admin. Since this draws from the experience of witnessing an Admin make an eviction, particularly that of Allanon3, this name cannot escape mention entirely: There are points to be made as it plays out in this Admin's rationale for evicting a member. In this case, no formal complaints had been lodged against Allanon3; Nonetheless, the Admin decided that Allanon3 possessed a negative pathology and therefore this Admin would take it upon herself to eliminate the user.

technopatra wrote: I took it upon myself to deactivate him after reading yet another muckraking comment, this time in Rumors & Lies.

In this case, whether or not, intentional, sub-intentional, or subliminal, this single action demonstrated this Admin's power to make a unilateral decision and evict a member. She, single-handed, has access to that trigger that can deactivate accounts. While a person may be able to hold a gun on you, and therefore have the power to dictate your actions, intimidate your movements, and even to eliminate you, to snuff out your life, as it were, this does not mean this person has the 'authority' or is 'morally correct' to do so.

When this kind of power is 'state' sponsored, effectively the state of this Bulletin Board, the best and healthiest thing for the better welfare of this state is to dilute that capital power so that no one Admin can demonstrate such full power by themselves: If an Admin should decide to evict a member of the community, at the very least, that Admin should have to make her case to a minimum of two other Admins- that this member needed to be evicted- before such an action were carried out. What say you?

Panther

case studies

Re: Case study: Allanon03

Back to business...

Power and Authority for Evicting E-playans