can't sit still wrote:I could PM but, it might be of interest to others or relevant to the thread. In '85, I boarded a camping bus in Earls Court, London SW6 that was bound for Kathmandu. We went to Istanbul, aka Constantinople, aka Byzantium. From there, we went to Syria and Jordan. In Syria, I got down on my hands and knees to inspect the soil. It was great. I couldn't believe that they didn't do more farming.
From Jordan, we walked across the Alenby bridge into israel and taxied to jerusalem. We made sure not to stamp the passports to avoid problems in other countries. I couldn't get a visa for Iran because of th Iranian hostage crisis. I separated from the group and stayed in Jerusalem for a week and a half. I was in a hostel near the Jaffa gate. I left Jerusalem to bus to Cairo for a few days. While I was in Amman, the Achille lauro was hijacked. There were some problems in Cairo but, it didn't affect me.
I joined a group in Cairo and went by train to Aswan. It was absolutely fascinating. After a few days in Aswan, we boarded a fellucca to sail to Karnac and other points downstream. The trip in the fellucca was like having your head in heaven and your feet in hell. We also rode donkeys up to the valley of the kings and the tomb of queen Hatshetuput [never could spell that one]
I walked every day, all day, except on the felucca. I wanted to see what the land and the people were like. Though the trip was years ago, much of what I saw was timeless. The souks and the walled cities and the olive groves have been the same for centuries. I used tres mal French in the old French colonies and very few words of arabic that I had learned.
Ive spent, cumulatively a dozen years in other countries and I get a feel for a place rapidly. The old capitals like Amman, Cairo, Damascus and Jerusalem were the high points. Istanbul is in a class by itself.
I bought Arab garb in Damascus and looked as ridiculous as Peter Otoole. The trip was great.
Sounds like it was a great trip. Do you make any friends that you are still in contact with by chance?
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
Eric wrote:*sigh*
I'm going to regret this, and this is my last post on this thread, but let me explain my issues with what CSS is posting. He has been wanting to talk about what Israel has done wrong, but hasn't once mentioned that there are two sides to every issue.
Before the founding of Israel, many Jews moved there, bought land- didn't steal it- and founded kibbutzim that made the desert bloom. They were regularly attacked by Palestinian Arabs who didn't want them there- but I don't see CSS asking about that. What about Palestinian suicide bombs on Israeli buses, tractors driven into crowds or, most pertinent to Gaza, Hamas using it as a base to launch unguided missiles into Israeli cities. Missiles that by their very nature target civilians.
Both sides are guilty of horrible crimes against each other, but I can guarantee you that until they can look for common ground with each other, it will only get worse. Looking for the crimes of one side while ignoring the crimes of the other solves no problems, and doesn't deal with a single underlying issue.
If attacking the legitimacy of the existence of Israel makes you happy, have at it. It's not for you to decide. If you actually care enough about the civilians involved- on both sides- than look for ways to heal the wounds of the past, not carry them into the future. One way leads to Kosovo, Bosnia, Armenia, Kashmir, Sudan, Somalia; the other leads into the great unknown, but it can't be worse than that.
Out of the thread.
I guess it is a good thing you wont post in this thread after that post.
Some of your "facts" are incorrect and I have links to back my claims.
Such as your claims about Hamas. Every time Hamas has launched rockets into Israel, it was in retaliation to what Israel was doing such as violating the truce in November:
[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]
Even Ron Paul knows the story of Hamas
[youtube][/youtube]
but I find it interesting you bring up kibbutzim.
For those that are not familiar with what kibbutzim is, check the link.
You would figure those that practice kibbutzim would understand the plight of Palestinians with what Israel is doing to them today and what Jews went through back in the day that had kibbutzim come about.
In fact, they should be ashamed of what they are doing since kibbutzim bloomed out of the same circumstances the Jews were in.
would have like to hear your views on this but as you said, it's your last post in this thread.
jkisha, there are varied definitions of zionism. The jews, like most other cultures believe them selves to be the chosen people. The chinese consider themselves to be the master race. That's fine. All groups need self-esteem. There is little or no problem as long as this attitude is turned inward. When it is turned outward, it causes problems up to and including genocide.
Most jews just want to live their lives and get along. There is a small percentage who take the idea of the "chosen people" to a greater extreme.
The orientals eliminated the Ainu when they moved into Japan.
The Aryans tried for ethnic purity in Europe.
The Europeans did the same when they came to America.
Zionism appears to be a push for religious purity.
This isn't anything new. The Jesuits killed many thousands of jews in the inquisition. Hitler said that the Jesuits had been his guide in many ways.
The jewish bolsheviks reportedly were responsible for the deaths of 10 million christians in the ukraine.
I would like to think that mankind should leave behind his efforts at purifying. http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=29932
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
Just thought CSS and a few others might find this interesting.
Ever wonder about the numbers stamped on the Jews arms by the Nazi's?
Those numbers come from IBM machines of the time.
Here is the story:
[youtube][/youtube]
The other parts are below.
The term "new world order" has been used to refer to a new period of history evidencing a dramatic change in world political thought and the balance of power. The first usages of the term surrounded Woodrow Wilson's Fourteen Points and call for a League of Nations following the devastation of World War I. The phrase was used sparingly at the end of the Second World War when describing the plans for the United Nations and Bretton Woods system, in part because of the negative association to the failed League of Nations the phrase would bring. In retrospect however, many commentators have applied the term retroactively to the order put in place by the WWII victors as a "new world order."
The most widely discussed application of the phrase of recent times came at the end of the Cold War. Presidents Mikhail Gorbachev and George H.W. Bush used the term to try to define the nature of the post Cold War era, and the spirit of great power cooperation that they hoped might materialize. Gorbachev's initial formulation was wide ranging and idealistic, but his ability to press for it was severely limited by the internal crisis of the Soviet system. Bush's vision was, in comparison, much more circumscribed and pragmatic, perhaps even instrumental at times, and closely linked to the Gulf War. Perhaps not surprisingly, the perception of what the new world order entailed in the press and in the public imagination far outstripped what either Gorbachev or Bush had outlined, and was characterized by nearly comprehensive optimism.
New World Order timeline
These are events that some conspiracy theorists claim are pivotal in and related to the establishment of the New World Order.
In 1903 the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion were published in Russia. Scholars generally agree that the Okhrana, the secret police of the Russian Empire, fabricated the text in the late 1890s or early 1900s.
In 1913 the Federal Reserve System was created by a group of bankers and politicians in a secret meeting and transferred the power of creating money from the US Government to these individuals.
In the July 17, 1926 Saturday Evening Post, the term "New World Order" was used for the first time in a popular magazine article to describe the work of Edward M. House in helping to create the League of Nations and helping to found the Council on Foreign Relations.
In 1935, the reverse side of the Great Seal of the United States with the Eye of Providence above the pyramid appeared for the first time on the back of the one dollar U.S. dollar bill.
In 1938, Lionel Curtis's The Commonwealth of God was published, advocating joint rule of the world by the USA and the UK.
In 1940, after Hitler had conquered most of Europe, he announced the coming of a New Order for Europe and eventually the world under Nazi rule.
From 1940 until her death in 1949, Alice Bailey published various books in which she called Zionism a "triangle of terror" and called for a New World Order in which Orthodox Judaism no longer existed.
The term "One World" originated in the 1943 book One World by liberal Republican Wendell Willkie. In the book Willkie described his 31,000 mile journey around the world from August 26 to October 14, 1942 in the Consolidated bomber "Gulliver" to meet with Allied war leaders.[9]
In 1944, the Bretton Woods Agreement was signed, outlining a regime for the post World War II world economy.
In 1945, the United Nations is founded.
In 1946, Bertrand Russell supported the Baruch Plan for establishment of a world government based on international control of atomic weapons, and advocated that the United States and the United Kingdom should use their atomic monopoly to compel the assent of the Soviet Union if necessary for the sake of achieving permanent world peace. On October 1, 1946, the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists carried an article by Bertrand Russell entitled The Atomic Bomb and the Prevention of War, where he writes, "The American and British governments ... should make it clear that genuine international cooperation is what they most desire. But although peace should be their goal, they should not let it appear that they are for peace at any price. At a certain stage, when their plan (sic) for an international government are ripe, they should offer them to the world ... If Russia acquiesced willingly, all would be well. If not, it would be necessary to bring pressure to bear, even to the extent of risking war".
In 1954, the Bilderberg Group was founded
On March 25, 1957 the European Economic Community (European Common Market) was formed, which in 1992 changed its name to the European Union. Currently, the EU has 27 member states, 15 of which use a common currency, the Euro.
In 1963, the Codex Alimentarius Commission was established by the Food and Agriculture Organization and the World Health Organization, later to be backed by the World Trade Organization.
In 1973, David Rockefeller organized the Trilateral Commission.
On September 17, 1973, the Club of Rome issued a report entitled the "Regionalized and Adaptive Model of the Global World System," which proposes that the world be divided into ten regions.
On September 11, 1990, the President of the United States, George H.W. Bush gave his famous speech, "Toward a New World Order" to a joint session of the United States Congress.
While the September 11, 2001 attacks have been linked to ideas about the New World Order, they have sometimes been presented as a conspiratorial media-orchestrated plot to frighten Americans into giving up their basic liberties to a "Homeland Security" authority that will eventually turn control of the United States over to a multi-national "coalition government."
In 2002, the FDA approved the manufacture of the VeriChip Microchip implant (human). Much more intrusive than the UPC, this aroused people's fears that some future totalitarian governments could enforce the implanting of these chips and thus fulfill the Book of Revelation prophecy regarding the Mark of the Beast. See Revelation 13:16-13:17 [7][8]
In October 2004 the Independent Task Force on North America, a project organized by the Council on Foreign Relations, proposes the establishment by 2010 of a North American economic and security community, generally referred to as the North American Union. It has been proposed by Robert Pastor, a vice-chairman of the task force, that the North American Union would have a common currency, the amero.
On January 20, 2005, the current President of the United States, George W. Bush in his inaugural speech said, "When our Founders declared a new order of the ages - they were acting on an ancient hope that is meant to be fulfilled." [9]
In 2005, transhumanist futurist philosopher and computer scientist Ray Kurzweil reported that "The U.S. Joint Forces Command "Project Alpha"...envisions a 2025 fighting force that 'is largely robotic.' ".
On 17th January 2007 during a trip to India and prior to taking office as British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown talked of a New World Order.
1. The unity of the Jewish People and the centrality of Israel in Jewish life;
2. The ingathering of the Jewish People in its historic homeland, Eretz Israel, through Aliyah from all countries;
3. The strengthening of the State of Israel which is based on the prophetic vision of justice and peace:
4. The preservation of the identity of the Jewish People through the fostering of Jewish and Hebrew education and of Jewish spiritual and cultural values;
5. The protection of Jewish rights everywhere.
Since the creation of Israel the role of the movement itself has become far less important, however the ideology remains a critical part of Israeli and Jewish political thinking.
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
Must have been written by a damn Jew!
Wiki is less than completely accurate at times. They mention the massacre at Deir Yassan but, don't mention that Menachem Begin was the leader.
1. The unity of the Jewish People and the centrality of Israel in Jewish life;
2. The ingathering of the Jewish People in its historic homeland, Eretz Israel, through Aliyah from all countries;
3. The strengthening of the State of Israel which is based on the prophetic vision of justice and peace:
4. The preservation of the identity of the Jewish People through the fostering of Jewish and Hebrew education and of Jewish spiritual and cultural values;
5. The protection of Jewish rights everywhere.
These are more or less admirable ideas. You'll notice that number 3 on the list [justice and peace] has been drowned out by the stench of phosphorous. Why don't you tell us from experience what a "Willy Peter" does to people.
Eric did mention that settlers did buy land legally. If I could ever get DVD to post the maps [early and late] of Palestine, it would be obvious that all of the "converted" land was not purchased. The Amish and the Mennonites bought land, the jews expropriated it.
As far as the trip went to Kathmandu, it was great and memorable. I corresponded with a few people for a short time but, it eventually faded out. In '75, I drove to Peru. That ended in grief. In '86, I went on a camping trip around OZ. Afterwards, I hooked up with an alcoholic from Utah that I met in OZ. She faded away after trips to Mexico and Alaska.
I've met some absolutely fascinating and interesting people on the road. It's usually not a good idea to try to hang on to them. Dunno why.
Dan
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
can't sit still wrote:
Eric did mention that settlers did buy land legally. If I could ever get DVD to post the maps [early and late] of Palestine, it would be obvious that all of the "converted" land was not purchased. The Amish and the Mennonites bought land, the jews expropriated it.
I do have both maps and I do believe I posted it here on eplaya a few years back.
I'd love to post them now but I am on my way to Oregon at the moment.
can't sit still wrote:Wiki is less than completely accurate at times. They mention the massacre at Deir Yassan but, don't mention that Menachem Begin was the leader.
........
As far as the trip went to Kathmandu, it was great and memorable. I corresponded with a few people for a short time but, it eventually faded out. In '75, I drove to Peru. That ended in grief. In '86, I went on a camping trip around OZ. Afterwards, I hooked up with an alcoholic from Utah that I met in OZ. She faded away after trips to Mexico and Alaska.
I've met some absolutely fascinating and interesting people on the road. It's usually not a good idea to try to hang on to them. Dunno why.
Dan
The nice thing about the Wiki is that anyone can logon and 'correct' any errors. As long as you have cites, you should logon to the Wiki and make the corrections.
Sounds like you have had some great travel experiences. My trips tend to be a bit more pristine, though I haven't traveled internationally in several years now.
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
jikisha, what, pray tell is a "pristine trip" Certainly not the Playa.
How about an explanation of what happens when you throw a "Willy Peter" into crowd.
Dan
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
jikisha, what, pray tell is a "pristine trip" Certainly not the Playa.
How about an explanation of what happens when you throw a "Willy Peter" into crowd.
Dan
LOL ya, that's why my partner wouldn't let me go to the playa with him the first year we were together--my idea of a vacation was a five star hotel with a pool overlooking the ocean so I didn't have to be bothered with the sand. (That's actually true.) Boy have I changed!
I actually have not had any experience with phosporous grenades.
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
This article is very interesting in that it has a possible "blueprint" for peace between all the residents of Palestine. It also points out that the jews and arabs usually got on well,,, historically. The traditional enemy of jews was christians.
THERE'S a memorable scene in the Stephen Spielberg film ‘Munich’. After the 1972 Munich Olympic Games killings of Israeli athletes, prime minister Golda Meir tells confidants she wants to show the plotters that killing Jews "is expensive". She then organises for the assassination of each of the plotters.
Today, it is Israel itself that has become expensive. Most directly, it is very expensive to the US, which subsidises and arms it.
But Israel's utter inability to transform the Palestinians from enemies into friends has imposed big costs on us all. We have paid for Israel's failure with bombs on London public transport, bombs in bars in Bali, and even the loss of the World Trade Centre towers in New York.
It is not true that these outrages have occurred because certain Islamic fundamentalists don't like Western lifestyles and so plant bombs in response. Rather, it is Israel — or more correctly the treatment of the Palestinians — that is at the nub of these events.
The world's Muslims have no head: no overarching caliph or pope equivalent exists — no single power source with whom to negotiate. Instead, Islam is remarkably decentralised. So, how extraordinary that Israel and the West have managed to unite this headless, diverse, dispersed grouping without any institutional framework, around just one issue — anger at the treatment of the Palestinians.
Otherwise dispersed groups of Muslims do seem to feel for one another in a way that Christians and others do not.
In this respect, the international Islamic community is like a body: kick it in the leg and the rest of the body feels it. Kick it hard enough and the entire body will be energised to defend itself. Pictures of distraught Gazan mothers beside the mutilated bodies of their children are circulating right now among Muslim communities worldwide. It is pictures like these that make them want to do something.
Consider Malaysia. Every citizen of this outpost of Islam has printed in his or her passport that the passport is not valid for Israel. And given that Malaysians are not allowed to hold dual citizenship, this essentially means that every Malaysian citizen, including the 40% who are not Muslims, are banned from visiting Israel.
"When will Malaysia recognise Israel?" I once asked the then finance minister. "Once Israel treats the Palestinians better," was his reply. How would he determine that? "When the Palestinians tell us," he said. It is not Israel's right to exist that is at issue.
The enmity many Muslims now feel for Israel has nothing to do with religion. The historical persecutors of the Jews have been Christians — their punishment for the death of Jesus. Jews and Muslims have lived in peace for hundreds of years in many parts of the Islamic world. When Catholic Spain and Portugal expelled its Jews, the Ottoman sultan in Istanbul invited them in. It is the Palestinian issue that has ruined all this.
Of course, today Israel must defend itself. If the residents of Bendigo started firing rockets into Melbourne you would expect Melbourne to retaliate. But what must Melbourne have done to Bendigo to make them do such a thing? Constantly slapping an opponent in the face, kicking it down to its knees, and watching it struggle in the dirt will not teach the opponent to love or respect you. It teaches only hatred.
Persecuting people does not weaken them. Israel should know that. The Jews have been persecuted for centuries. It didn't destroy them but gave them the impetus to survive.
One characteristic that is common among persecuted groups is a strong investment in education — when people's physical wealth is in danger of destruction from war and persecution one store of wealth that stays with individuals even when they must flee as refugees is education. It explains why such groups often insist on their own schools — education is too important to be entrusted to others.
Hamas did not enjoy the support of all the people of Gaza. It does now. Why does Israel keep getting it wrong?
Trekking in Nepal is fashionable among young Israelis. So much so that many shops in Kathmandu and Pokhara have signs in Hebrew. But once you get on the trekking circuit and speak with local Nepalese guides and guesthouse operators you soon discover how disliked the Israelis are. Many guesthouses in this poor country will even tell Israeli trekking groups that they are full rather than accept them. This has nothing to do with religion or politics: Nepalese people are some of the warmest, most hospitable in the world. Rather, they say that the young Israelis are rude, arrogant, and argue over trifling amounts of money even though they clearly have means.
Israel needs to change. The Parsees of India might provide a model. The Parsees are a very tiny, very rich ethnic and religious minority. They own perhaps most of the land in central Mumbai as well as the country's largest conglomerate. And yet ordinary Indians admire and respect them. Violence against them is unthinkable.
How have they achieved this? They are not flashy or arrogant. Their overriding characteristic is a deep interest in the welfare of others. They have established hospitals, libraries, schools, museums and many other institutions and, most importantly, not for the Parsee community exclusively but for everyone. So the Parsees have peace and the Israelis do not.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
Israel has never been more isolated. Its best friend, the United States, had vetoed 41 Security Council resolutions condemning Israel in the past three decades, but was about to vote for the Jan. 8 resolution denouncing the attack on Gaza when President Bush intervened, at the behest of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Still, in the face of unprecedented global criticism, the U.S. didn't dare veto, but merely abstained. Europe, never Israel's close ally, erupted in near unanimous outrage over Gaza, with fits of anti-Semitic violence in France, Sweden and Belgium.
Israel is accustomed to attacks from the left and the U.N. This time, though, Amnesty International has accused Israel of war crimes (using white phosphorus against civilians), and the secretary-general was unusually outspoken. After Israel bombed five U.N. compounds, Ban Ki-moon called the attack "heartbreaking … outrageous and unacceptable." His condemnation of Hamas rocket attacks came later, in milder terms.
Israel's last major military excursion, into Lebanon in 2006, aroused less anger. Its closest European ally is Britain, where Tony Blair initially refused to call for a ceasefire in Lebanon. By day two in Gaza, his Labour successors were pushing for a ceasefire; one M.P. called Israel's leaders "mass murderers." The global outcry in 2006 was tempered by disgust at Hizbullah's rocket campaign, which killed 43 in heavily populated northern Israel. This time, Hamas rockets hit a patch of sparsely populated southern Israel, killing three, while the Israeli response has been far more deadly. Some 1,300 Palestinians have been killed—compared with 500 Shiites in Lebanon.
The one region where Israel is arguably not more isolated is the Middle East. Israel's push for Arab recognition suffered a setback when Mauritania and Qatar severed relations, but four Arab summits have reached no consensus on how to respond to Gaza. Major states, led by Jordan and Egypt, want to lend no comfort to their Persian rival, Iran, the backer of Hamas. Moreover, Hamas has not emerged as a plucky hero to the Arab world, the way Hizbullah did in 2006. When the fighting quieted last week, Hamas held a "victory" parade in Gaza City, and it fizzled.
Israel has just one key friend. Could Obama, who promised the Muslim world "a new way forward" in his Inaugural Address, loosen the bond? A recent Pew poll shows 55 percent of U.S. Republicans, but only 45 percent of Democrats, approve of Israel's actions in Gaza. Given that Democrats now rule, Israel may need to worry more about the mood on Main Street than on the Arab Street.
With Christopher Dickey in Doha and Sophie Grove in London
can't sit still wrote: Rather, they say that the young Israelis are rude, arrogant, and argue over trifling amounts of money even though they clearly have means.
Hmmm....could this possibly be why the stereotype continues to be perpetuated?
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
can't sit still wrote: Rather, they say that the young Israelis are rude, arrogant, and argue over trifling amounts of money even though they clearly have means.
Hmmm....could this possibly be why the stereotype continues to be perpetuated?
JK
years ago before the plonker I argued why the plonker would be useless just for this reason:
jkisha, my impression of the non-arab people that I met in Jerusalem was "intransigent" I was told that if I walked around in an orthodox neighborhood like Ben Yahuda with my arms bare, I risked being stoned. The same is true around the wailing wall, I believe. You may recall the stoning scene in "Life of Brian" It looks painful.
One can readily get stoned in Damascus and Cairo too. But, one must pay for the hash first.
Unfortunately for the jews, they don't have any major, recent prophets. The majority of the recent saints and leaders in christianity preached peace and love. While the Pope is calling for restraint in Gaza, there are rabbis that are calling for carpet bombing.
The talmud generally exhorts the chosen people to cheat the goy. Yahweh and Moses and Abraham were smiting the shit outa everybody. The old testament is dripping in blood. The new testament concentrates more on forgiveness and forbearance.
The role models for israel, as evinced by their choice of prime ministers, are mass murderers. They piled up corpses of non-combatants for photo ops.
These are purely the actions of barbarians. There is no honor, no gain and certainly,,, no remorse. Most of the israelis are repulsed by this.
Using the old testament prophets as role models in the modern world is just too barbaric.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
GAZA — Faisal Husseini, a Palestinian leader who died at the start of this decade, used to tell a story about his first visit to Israel. The 1967 war had just ended, borders were suddenly opened and he took a drive to Tel Aviv, where at some point he found himself detained by an Israeli policeman. Questions and answers ensued. At one point the policeman said to him, “As a proud Zionist, I must tell you ....â€
DVD, I'm cursed/blessed by a desire for accuracy and truth. It may sound like I'm picking on the jews. Since <98> % of the mass media is owned by jews, I don't go to great efforts to air their side. They have it well covered.
In the interest of discovering the truth, I traveled to Ireland/// Northern Ireland... to the middle east.... to india/// Kashmir and to that big island off of florida.
Since the first casualtiy in war is... truth, I didn't trust the propaganda of MSM.
William of Orange stuffed up Ireland,,, along with Wolsey.
Britain stuffed up india by arbitrarily drawing a border with pakistan that ignored religion.
William of Orange plopped down a big bunch of protestants on an island full of catholics.
Golda Meir dropped down a big bunch of nasty russians on some peaceful arab shepherds. It's just the ebb and flow of history.
I would like to believe that my species can and will leave behind imperialism and butchery.
I'm going to post a good paper that I found regarding the differences between an empire based on belligerence and an empire based just on commerce.
Great reading.
Dan
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
Simon, I read the TOS and then ran for the exit. I'm definitely a lightweight when it comes to ugliness in life. I flee from the whole genre of horror movies.
Hemingway and Steinbeck both drove ambulances in a combat zone. It made them powerful writers. I prefer to abstain. I've seen bodies lying in the street. I've sen kids who were hamstrung [cut Achilles tendon] by their parents so that they could beg more effectively. I've picked up a few people in a pool of blood and cared for them. That's different.
Created ugliness leaves me COLD!! Must be a mental defect. Give me a room full of 4year olds who desperately need Ritalin and I'm happy.
Dan
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
Zeus, I've always been an amateur student of archeology. One of the standard texts is ":The Emergence of Man" by Pfiefer. It's fascinating. Leakey and others call for the area around Olduvai gorge as being the cradle of early man. The fossils date back a few million years. Mary Leakey would have made a good Burner. Her mother put her in a convent where she was expelled several times.
The fossil record from Africa is quite extensive and shows a clear progression. That's not to say that hominid predecessors couldn't have risen on other continents. It does seem to show that africa was the nursery for several hominid species. http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/information ... _mary.html They've recently turned up a huge stone temple complex in Turkey that predates the ruins at Stonehenge by 6,000 years. While interesting, it doesn't prove anything about very early man.
Africa shows a clear progression of hominid development with an opposable thumb 1.75 million years ago. I'm not aware of a progressive fossil record in any other locales.
One has to keep in mind that a few ice ages have come and gone since then. That would affect where "man" could live and also where fossils might be preserved.
Dan
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
Aren't they now tracing the migration of our species using DNA analysis? You can actually sign-up to be a part of this study. (There are two going on I believe.) There is a fee for either one or both if memory serves.
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
jkisha, you're correct, of course. The fascinating thing is that they've found Adam and Eve. Through all the cataclysm of the last few million years, there have been huge die-offs. They claim that DNA proves that we're all descended from just 1 female that lived a long time ago. Adam lived about 250,000 years before or after her. Doing it all from memory.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
