Loose Dust Trends

[CompositionB]

I'm curious about how the amount of loose dust on the playa has varied over the past 10 to 20 years. I've only been a burner since 2007 so I'm hoping some more experienced burners can share their past observations.

Have there always been some dunes or were there years when the playa was completely solid?

Were there more frequent and/or intense dust storms in years when there was more loose dust than typical? I'm expecting the answer to that is yes but I'm hesitant to make assumptions.

Does the amount of loose dust seem to be increasing or decreasing over the years or is it staying roughly the same? Was 2008 the worst year ever?

thanks in advance

[Sham]

Let me say this about that. The site of Burning Man actually moves from year to year. This is done to keep the surface from getting constant wear marks and ruts where the streets are. The area is so vast, that it can be a mile from where it was a year before, but the various camps and Center Camp all seem like they are in the same spot.
The dust levels are strickly related to the winter and spring that took place that year. Wet:less dust, dry:more dust
In answer to your question, no, it's not getting dustier, it's just different from year to year.

[TomServo]

It's gotten dustier over the past few years.. I seem to remember the western edge of the playa having a harder pack, with less dust, but not sure if thats the case anymore. I started a project to clear coat the playa, but had to abandon, after 9 sq. feet, as I ran out of polyurethane.

[Toolmaker]

leafblowers can be used to help make things better.

[chiefdanfox]

If you would have thinned it out a bit, and used a rag rather than the lambswool, you would have gotten farther.

[Elderberry]

Someone needs to get a zamboni and convert it to work on the playa! Now that would be some mutant vehicle!

JK

[Ugly Dougly]

You think the playa will run out of dust?

[CompositionB]

The reason I'm asking is that there is a claim that the amount of loose dust on the playa is steadily increasing and that Burning Man is primarily responsible ( http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cxh/leavenotrace/ ). According to the author of that site some playa users (land sailors) have already been forced to leave the black rock playa in search of dune-free terrain.

The issue has been reviewed by at least one scientist and he concluded:
"It is likely that the socio-cultural record of the Black Rock playa is most significant in explaining the presence of the playa “dunesâ€

[Elderberry]

Interesting post. That's the first I've heard of that.

I've only been two years, last year was hell on a bike, the year before was fine. I don't recall my partner ever encountering such dunes and he's going on 5 years now.

JK

[OnceTheDustClears]

I've had the same single speed cheap bike the last few years and '08 was definitely the worst. In 2007 I rode everywhere all week quite easily. In 2008 I kept having to get off and push. I finally ditched the bike and walked the last few days.

Not sure it's even worth bringing a bike if it's like last year.

[theCryptofishist]

Interesting post. That's the first I've heard of that.

The claim has been made before. By hostile idiots who didn't bother to provide cites and who made us all love them by calling us "sheep."

Unfortunately, there is another possible trend there, with this being a probable third dry winter in the Sierras. And global warming won't help. So, as in so many real life examples teasing out what is due to what will be complicated, if not impossible.

[TomServo]

If you would have thinned it out a bit, and used a rag rather than the lambswool, you would have gotten farther.

I'm talking, now, with a crop duster pilot. We'll see if we can't rig it up to clear coat the playa. I'd prefer it though, if we could do it after a good rain..to get that classic "playa" look. Not much sense in clear coating dunes..

[Ugly Dougly]

Interesting post. That's the first I've heard of that.

The claim has been made before. By hostile idiots who didn't bother to provide cites and who made us all love them by calling us "sheep."

Unfortunately, there is another possible trend there, with this being a probable third dry winter in the Sierras. And global warming won't help. So, as in so many real life examples teasing out what is due to what will be complicated, if not impossible.

Global warming? It's that another "claim" made by other "hostile idiots"?

Listen, if we're fucking up the playa, name-calling will not help.

[theCryptofishist]

Interesting post. That's the first I've heard of that.

The claim has been made before. By hostile idiots who didn't bother to provide cites and who made us all love them by calling us "sheep."

Unfortunately, there is another possible trend there, with this being a probable third dry winter in the Sierras. And global warming won't help. So, as in so many real life examples teasing out what is due to what will be complicated, if not impossible.

Global warming? It's that another "claim" made by other "hostile idiots"?

Listen, if we're fucking up the playa, name-calling will not help.

I'm confused. All I meant was that if there is long term damage to the playa occuring that the particular group who was making that claim in the past managed to
Oh, fuck. You don't know how lucky you are to have missed those years.

[gyre]

I've only been two years, last year was hell on a bike, the year before was fine. I don't recall my partner ever encountering such dunes and he's going on 5 years now.

JK

In 2007, there were some serious dust puddles that would stop a bike in a hurry.
That was when I got to try out the wide tire in dust.
I didn't make 2008, but I think the wide smooth tires would work the same as when I drove into the dust.
They tend to smooth out bumps too.
The owner told me he steered for dust for the smoother ride.
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=26065

[Elderberry]

I don't really remember biking to be that bad in 2007, but I was a virgin that year, so lots from that trip is blurred together in my mind. I have already book marked that link on the big tires. I'm doubting that they'll fit on my bike; but I'll be checking with the bike shop later in the year.

JK

[CompositionB]

The claim has been made before. By hostile idiots who didn't bother to provide cites and who made us all love them by calling us "sheep."

Unfortunately, there is another possible trend there, with this being a probable third dry winter in the Sierras. And global warming won't help. So, as in so many real life examples teasing out what is due to what will be complicated, if not impossible.

This isn't an issue to argue about, just something I think is worth discussing. That's why I did cite sources.

You are correct that this issue, like most, is complex. We must determine if there really is a trend of increasing dust and then, if there is, all the contributing factors will need to be identified and measured before we can say what is and isn't causing the problem.

Perhaps this is more effort than it's worth. I'll probably just wait to see what happens in the next three or four years. If a clear trend seems to be emerging then I may look for a way to measure the amount of dust.

Those who've been to burning man for more than the last few years are most qualified to say if there's a trend or not.

In 2007, there were some serious dust puddles that would stop a bike in a hurry.
That was when I got to try out the wide tire in dust.
I didn't make 2008, but I think the wide smooth tires would work the same as when I drove into the dust.
They tend to smooth out bumps too.
The owner told me he steered for dust for the smoother ride.
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=26065

Am I missing something or are there no brakes on the bike in that thread?

[Ugly Dougly]

Oh, fuck. You don't know how lucky you are to have missed those years.

I remember. Every day is new.

[wedeliver]

In the past the playa has been smooth as a babies ass. One of my favorite memories is riding my bike at night, with no hands, closed my eyes and counted to 120, thats 2 minutes I road my bike with no hands and my EYES CLOSED. The ground was very smooth, if you had a light breeze on your back you didn't need to pedal. That was back at the beginning of this century.

[gyre]

I don't really remember biking to be that bad in 2007, but I was a virgin that year, so lots from that trip is blurred together in my mind. I have already book marked that link on the big tires. I'm doubting that they'll fit on my bike; but I'll be checking with the bike shop later in the year.

JK

It was only bad in spots, but enough that you had to watch out.
There were some bad falls from the puddles and drifts.

If they can't be fitted, you can probably go wider with a balloon tire.
If you can't get smooth, look for a reverse pattern tire like the continental for snow.

ContinentalB, if you look closely, you can see a disc brake at the rear.
The front has the mounting tabs, but does not have brakes.

If you enable your bbcode on your profile, the quoteys work.

Bicycle Bananas in reno is a big surly dealer and they fix up a lot of the playa bikes that the kiwanis sell to burners.
They can order in the wide surly bike and they carry some electrics too.
They're at 775/747-1413.
They consider themselves to be burning man sponsors because of the amount of repair work they do on the kiwanis bikes.

They tell me that fitting the large surly rims to other bikes takes some reworking to fit the tire width.
It can be done on some steel frames, but aluminum is tricky.
The wide fork can be added to many bikes and is available.
Another option is to add a longtail like the Xtracycle design, that is built for the wide wheel.

You can still max out the space you have in your frame.
It might require brake adjustment.
I would recommend smooth as possible, or something that doesn't pick up dirt.
The continental is intended to release snow or mud instead of picking it up.
It has chamfered edges instead of vertical in the tread.
Knobbies are the worst thing you can bring.

[Lo]

Since 1998, it was always smooth, except 2001, 2007, and 2008. And 2008 was by far the worst. I don't think anyone really knows whether the bad conditions of the last two years are going to become a trend (or whether it's natural or Burning Manmade), it seems like we're just going to have to wait and see. But I think it has become clear to everyone that we can't count on a smooth playa, and thus planning for possible dunes should become part of everyone's preparation now.

[CompositionB]

Since 1998, it was always smooth, except 2001, 2007, and 2008. And 2008 was by far the worst. I don't think anyone really knows whether the bad conditions of the last two years are going to become a trend (or whether it's natural or Burning Manmade), it seems like we're just going to have to wait and see. But I think it has become clear to everyone that we can't count on a smooth playa, and thus planning for possible dunes should become part of everyone's preparation now.

Thanks for the info. From what you and a couple other veteran burners have said it doesn't sound like there is a long-term trend of increasing loose dust. I am very glad to hear that! :)

[Bob]

http://heritage.nv.gov/weather/gbprecip.htm

[OnceTheDustClears]

So learned weatherphiles...does this mean we're screwed?

Care to make a prediction for this year other than there will be dust?

[ygmir]

yes,
if it rains late enough, it'll be fine,
if not, it'll be fine
if it's muddy, it'll be fine.

none of the above will stop me from going, how about you?

[OnceTheDustClears]

Of course not.
What's a few dust dunes and whiteouts among friends?
It's all part of the experience.

It would be nice to have an easier bike ride than last year though.

[ygmir]

buy a tandem bike and remove your pedals.....

[gyre]

Of course not.
What's a few dust dunes and whiteouts among friends?
It's all part of the experience.

It would be nice to have an easier bike ride than last year though.

Wide, smooth tires.
There's always the Surly setup.

I can't help thinking a longtail would help, but I don't know for sure.

[OnceTheDustClears]

buy a tandem bike and remove your pedals.....

Flintstone style...

[ygmir]

buy a tandem bike and remove your pedals.....

Flintstone style...

well,
I was being sneaky, really.
leave the pedals for the front rider.........you sit in back.......