israel, judaism, jews and zionism

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Post by Elderberry » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:25 pm

ygmir wrote: haha, you also said "shot"............

and, how is it ok to "waterboard" (or whatever method of torture you select)?.........
are you saying it's ok to "torture" as long as it's not us?

Maybe we can farm out torture to other nations, so "we" aren't doing it?
(oh yeah, I think we've done that.......)

seems it's either ok, or, not...........and, if a person judges one harshly for 'mistreatment', to be fair, they should judge all...........

IMHO.......
It's not anymore OK to waterboard than it is for the Israeli settlers to be settling the west bank or what-ever bank they are settling that belongs to the Palestinians. All I'm saying is that if the Israeli government want peace with the Palestinians they have to get their own people under control, by whatever means their country has established to deal with people that are breaking the laws of the land.

And yes, I did say 'shot' but you should know me better than that by now. I say lots of stuff more for effect or to get a reaction. I do think that the Israeli's are really way out of line in this situation, but I don't want them shot; just held accountable. I don't know what is worse, that Israel won't settle or if they do, they won't be able to enforce the settlement that is reached because they can't control their own people.

If this is not coherent, it's because I've had a few cocktails.

JK
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Post by ygmir » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:32 pm

yes, JK, I do know you better than that......ergo "haha".......just pokin at you.........so seldom is the opportunity afforded to pick at a blemish in your "cognitive-politico-social" armor............grin....

and, having said "shot" for reaction, I was obliging...........

I do agree, though, Israel is in the dumper, and, digging deeper............debatably, deservedly, so............
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Post by Elderberry » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:39 pm

ygmir wrote:debatably, deservedly, so............
Unfortunately, I don't think it's debatable any more.

JK
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Post by ygmir » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:49 pm

I agree,
I also see, when they really start getting dumped on, them pulling the
"you're-all-anti-Jew-we-suffered-more-than-anyone-and-of-course,-the-holocaust" card.....
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Post by Elderberry » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:56 pm

ygmir wrote:I agree,
I also see, when they really start getting dumped on, them pulling the
"you're-all-anti-Jew-we-suffered-more-than-anyone-and-of-course,-the-holocaust" card.....
I don't want to sound like an anti-semite, but they've been playing that card for, well, since the holocost. My best friend's dad was in a concentration camp and had the numbers on his arm to prove it. But it's yesterday's news. Get over it.

JK
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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:33 am

Israel faces calls for Gaza war crimes probe - 30 Jan 09

[youtube][/youtube]



Gaza crisis stirs heated debate in Davos - 30 January 09

[youtube][/youtube]
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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:32 pm

Group: Settlement info implicates Israeli gov't

The Associated Press - 9 hours ago

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... QD961EK8G0

JERUSALEM (AP) — An Israeli rights group plans to use a database detailing the complicity of Israel's government in widespread illegal construction in West Bank settlements to help Palestinians file lawsuits over their lost land, the group said Friday.

The classified database, compiled by Israel's Defense Ministry and leaked to the Yesh Din group, shows that government agencies and private companies building settlements in the West Bank widely ignored Israeli law, in many cases seizing land that belongs to Palestinians. It also demonstrates that the government has long been aware of the lawbreaking and has kept it secret.

The Defense Ministry would not comment on the report.

The internationally backed "road map" peace plan, the basis for Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, calls on Israel to halt all settlement activity. The settlements render the Palestinian goal of establishing a state that includes the West Bank all but impossible, and Israel will have to evacuate all or many of them as part of any peace agreement.

More than 30 settlements were built in part on land owned by Palestinians, the report shows, and in three out of every four settlements some construction was conducted without proper permits.

In one settlement, Elon Moreh, the report says, 18 houses were built on private land. In another, Efrat, a park and a synagogue were built on private land, and in a third, Ariel, a college was built without legal approval. In other settlements, roads, cell phone antennas, basketball courts and neighborhoods were built illegally.

The report focuses on the some 120 West Bank settlements officially authorized by the government since Israel captured the territory in the 1967 Mideast war. In addition, settlers have thrown up some 100 unauthorized settlement outposts, which violate Israeli law but were typically built with the tacit approval or active cooperation of the government.

Michael Sfard, Yesh Din's legal counsel, called the information a "severe indictment" of Israel's military and government. Israeli authorities are "systematically violating international law and the property rights of Palestinian residents," Sfard said in a statement.

The group said it intends to use "all legal means" to challenge the violations listed in the leaked database, including filing civil suits and appealing to Israel's Supreme Court. Yesh Din will begin running ads in Palestinian newspapers to encourage people to take legal action, and will also offer legal counsel, the statement from the group said.
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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:45 pm

First evidence of damage to Gaza’s cultural sites emerges

Antiquities museum hit; fears grow for excavated archaeology

http://www.theartnewspaper.com/article.asp?id=16827

Lauren Gelfond Feldinger | 28.1.09 | Issue 199

JERUSALEM. After a 3,500-year history of invasions, the latest war on the beleaguered coastal strip of Gaza has once again put historic sites at risk.

With the fragile ceasefire still in force, The Art Newspaper has learned that Gaza’s only museum has been damaged and other heritage sites and buildings may also be at risk.

The Antiquities Museum of Gaza, privately founded and run by Gazan contractor and collector Jawdat Khoudary, was badly damaged during Israel’s 22 days of air and land strikes. The glass doors and windows have been shattered and the roof and walls have been damaged. Roman and Byzantine pottery, Islamic bronze objects and many amphorae have been destroyed, initially during shooting 20m to 200m away, and later because of nearby shelling, with one direct hit to the museum’s conference hall, Mr Khoudary said. Amphorae, clay and ceramic vessels with two looped handles, were created in Gaza and the region during the fourth to seventh centuries for storing wine, olive oil and food and trading perishable commodities.

“I am very concerned: the entire Gaza Strip is an archaeological site,â€
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Post by can't sit still » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:39 pm

"The first mention of an invasion in Gaza dates back approximately 3,500 years to the annals of Pharaoh Tuthmosis III."
I rode a donkey up to the valley of the kings. Tuthmosis III has the most colorful tomb,,, by far.

" At least a dozen empires have controlled Gaza in its 6,000-year known history, including the ancient Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Macedonians, Romans, Byzantines, Muslims, Crusaders, Mamluks, Ottomans and British, and the modern states of Egypt and Israel."
Just think, 6,000 years of blood spilled. I was in the tomb of Ramses III ? The Roman legions has broken open his sarcophagus. It gives you a real sense of history to walk the same steps that were walked by pre-biblical people [egyptians]
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Post by DVD Burner » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:36 pm

Israeli Apartheid Week 2009 may be coming to a campus near you


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http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull


Jan 29, 2009 22:56 | Updated Jan 30, 2009 8:45

Israeli Apartheid Week will take place on March 1-8 on college campuses in 27 cities internationally, in what has become a growing phenomenon since the annual event was started in 2005.

Although the schedule for this year's version has not yet been released, a message on its Web site makes clear what the focus will be: "This year, IAW occurs in the wake of Israel's barbaric assault against the people of Gaza. Lectures, films and actions will make the point that these latest massacres further confirm the true nature of Israeli Apartheid."

The event aims "to continue to build and strengthen the growing Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement at a global level," according to the site.

An archive of past Israeli Apartheid Weeks on apartheidweek.org confirms the event's growing popularity. In 2005, the event took place only in Toronto. The next year, it grew to include Montreal and Oxford. Five locations, including New York, were added in 2007, bringing it to the United States for the first time.

From 2007 to 2008, there was a huge jump as 19 locations were added for a total of 24 (certain others were discontinued). This year, with the addition of three new locations, Israeli Apartheid Week will be held in 27 cities.

In addition to existing programs in Canada, England and the US, the event will now reach South Africa, the West Bank, Mexico, Scotland and Norway. Locations include Abu Dis, Berkeley, Bir Zeit, Edinburgh, Edmonton, Johannesburg, Oxford, Kalkilya, San Francisco, Soweto, Tulkarm and Washington, DC.

In certain cities, the events will take place on more than one campus. In Toronto and Montreal, pro-Israel groups have confirmed that events for the week will be taking place on three campuses per city, as they have in the past.

The Web site, which is usually down for most of the year (except for a welcome message), was relaunched on Wednesday with new material for Israeli Apartheid Week 2009. Web surfers are invited to learn about the history of the week, the proposed academic boycott, and BDS calls.

Speakers have included Balad MK Jamal Zahalka in 2007 and former MK Azmi Bishara, also of Balad, who began Israeli Apartheid Week 2008 with a live broadcast from Soweto.

In his February 2007 Israeli Apartheid Week speech at the University of Toronto, Zahalka spoke of the "myth of Israeli democracy."

"Democracy is Israel's most important export," he said. "This product [democracy] is so important that it gives Israel moral legitimacy, political legitimacy, influence and acceptance."

Pro-Israel campus groups have been gearing up to respond to Israel Apartheid Week 2009.

The event's organizers "are capitalizing on the fact that people are horrified by the experience of the black people in South Africa and by the experiences of Jews in the Holocaust. The anti-Israel movement hopes to inspire opposition to the State of Israel by applying the labels of Apartheid and Holocaust to the treatment of Palestinians by Israel," Orna Hollander, head of the Canadian Center for Israel Activism, said this week.

An employee at the Israeli Embassy in Washington seemed put off by the mention of the week and said he had never heard of such a thing. The embassy in Ottawa declined to comment, but said it was well aware of the scheduled events.

Asked about the feelings of Jewish students at Oxford University, second-year student Jacob Turner explained Wednesday that "Jewish students on Oxford campus are mostly apolitical. The Oxford Israeli Cultural Society will keep making our points to the press, in order to ensure that there is a two-sided debate, but beyond that, there is nothing we can do."

Josh Xiong, president of the pro-Israel group at the University of Toronto, Zionists @ U of T (ZUT), said his most pressing concern for the week was that "it crushes any true form of discussion. In blaming Israel for all the failures of the current Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Israeli Apartheid Week alienates anybody else who holds opposing viewpoints and misleads many others who simply want to learn more about the issue."

In recognition of a newfound cooperation between Hillel and ZUT, Xiong said a possible response to the week would be "a collaboration between Hillel and ZUT on a 'Just Facts' event to educate students on campus in an impartial way and to debunk some of the one-sided rhetoric Israeli Apartheid Week produces."

Dan Hadad, director of advocacy for Hillel Montreal, has been present for past Israeli Apartheid Weeks and said there would be a focus again this year, on Canadian campuses, on the "Canadian apartheid of aboriginals."

In a YouTube video called "Israeli Apartheid Week 2008 Trailer," Salim Valley of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign provided reasoning for this link between Canadian aboriginals and Palestinians.

"At the world conference against racism, what did they do when they saw overwhelmingly Dalits [South Asian untouchables], indigenous people from South Africa, African peasants, and people from Asia marching together under the banner 'Zionism is racism'?" Valley asked. "When Palestinians took up the course of the Dalits, when some Palestinians stood with indigenous people in South America, when together in South Africa - the home once of Apartheid - they stood together, the ruling class, carriers of misery, racists throughout the world started trembling."

In the same video, Rafeeh Ziadah of Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid, dismissed the option of dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians.

"Nobody would have asked a black South African to dialogue with a white South African. Nobody would have asked a black from the southern United States to dialogue with members of the KKK. Now, by that same logic, we Palestinians have nothing to dialogue about with Zionists," she said.

The focus in past years' weeks has included "Apartheid and the Current Context in Palestine," "Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement against Israeli Apartheid: Lessons from South Africa," "Nakba and the Right of Return," and "Voices for Palestine: Resistance to Racism and Apartheid."
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Post by can't sit still » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:42 pm

Well, the israelis don't beat around the bush;

"Another Israeli spokeswoman, Tzipora Menache, stated that she was not worried about negative ramifications the Israeli onslaught on Gaza might have on the way the Obama administration would view Israel. She said "You know very well, and the stupid Americans know equally well, that we control their government, irrespective of who sits in the White House."

"The Israeli spokesman, Nachman Abramovic demonized Palestinian children stating "They may look young to you, but these people are terrorists at heart. Don’t look at their deceptively innocent faces, try to think of the demons inside each of them"

"We do kill human animals and we do so unapologetically."


"Human animal mentioned by Abramovic refers to the Judaic religious belief that Jews are Gods chosen people; the elite and the pure-blooded, while all others (non-Jews, Goyims, gentiles) are animal souls incarnated into human bodies to serve the Jews"
http://uruknet.info/?p=m51363&hd=&size=1&l=e

I seriously doubt that israel has any "hate crime" laws :(
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Post by Elderberry » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:31 am

can't sit still wrote:
I seriously doubt that israel has any "hate crime" laws :(
And yet they allow gays in the military. Go figure.

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Post by goathead » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:15 am

And we all know what fine people Hamas are.

[youtube][/youtube]

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Post by Elderberry » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:46 am

I think it interesting that the United States (Bush) did everything he could to get free and fair elections there; and when the people voted they overwhelmingly voted in Hamas. Then the United States tried to disavow the election. Hmmm....

Just boggles the mind what we are even doing in that part of the world. Oh that's right, OIL!

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Post by ygmir » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:01 am

yeah, it seems like it might come down to arm em all, get out of the way, and, deal with the winner...........

since, we can't disarm them, give em all a fighting chance.........
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Post by DVD Burner » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:48 pm

goathead wrote:And we all know what fine people Hamas are.

[youtube][/youtube]

That's right, demonize Hamas. After all, Israel and the United States thought it was a good idea to place them in power in the first place.

[youtube][/youtube]

And now that Hamas is fighting for the people and defending the people Israel and the U.S. dont like what the people democratically elected, they suddenly now are "terrorists". That's the fact jack.


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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:25 am

Hamas Ready to Accept One-Year Truce Amid Renewed Gaza Clashes

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

By Jonathan Ferziger and Saud Abu Ramadan

Feb. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Hamas said it’s considering a one- year truce with Israel even as Israeli warplanes struck the Gaza Strip and killed a Palestinian militant.

Negotiators for Hamas, which suspended three weeks of fighting with Israel Jan. 18, headed to Cairo today to discuss the cease-fire proposal with Egyptian mediators.

“We agree in principle with a one-year truce,â€
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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:28 am

Mind you this is the 9th truce Hamas has accepted and the 9th that Israel will reject.
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Post by goathead » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:32 am

jkisha wrote:I think it interesting that the United States (Bush) did everything he could to get free and fair elections there; and when the people voted they overwhelmingly voted in Hamas. Then the United States tried to disavow the election. Hmmm....

Just boggles the mind what we are even doing in that part of the world. Oh that's right, OIL!

JK
And we elected Bush twice. So what's your point? Germany elected Hitler.

Last time I looked Israel really doesn't have any oil.

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Post by goathead » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:40 am

ygmir wrote:yeah, it seems like it might come down to arm em all, get out of the way, and, deal with the winner...........

since, we can't disarm them, give em all a fighting chance.........
How many wars has Israel fought where she was the underdog?

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Post by goathead » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:42 am

DVD Burner wrote:Mind you this is the 9th truce Hamas has accepted and the 9th that Israel will reject.
Why should they let them rearm?
Let them change their fucking charter, and call for peace.

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:51 am

goathead wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:Mind you this is the 9th truce Hamas has accepted and the 9th that Israel will reject.
Why should they let them rearm?
Let them change their fucking charter, and call for peace.
Israel and the U.S. are very good at spinning shit.
Israel goes into Gaza, kills a few people they claim is Hamas, leaves and waits for the Hamas retaliation, then Israel claims Hamas is firing rockets and needs to defend itself.

If anything, the Palestinians need to defend themselves.

Too bad Hamas doesn't have the weapons Israel has.

Rearm? Shit, Hamas builds their own arms and it seems they are doing pretty darn good.


Israel doesn't seem to be able to stop the rockets from coming in.
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Post by goathead » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:11 am

DVD Burner wrote: Israel and the U.S. are very good at spinning shit.
Israel goes into Gaza, kills a few people they claim is Hamas, leaves and waits for the Hamas retaliation, then Israel claims Hamas is firing rockets and needs to defend itself.
Like Hamas doesn't spin shit? Yeah right.
DVD Burner wrote: If anything, the Palestinians need to defend themselves.
Yep just keep the fucking killing going on, if anything they need to make peace with Israel. End this shit.
DVD Burner wrote:Too bad Hamas doesn't have the weapons Israel has.
Wishing for a bigger and better blood bath? Yep, thats real constructive.
DVD Burner wrote:Rearm? Shit, Hamas builds their own arms and it seems they are doing pretty darn good.
Yeah look at just what they have accomplished. Getting a fuckload of their own people killed because they "builds their own arms and it seems they are doing pretty darn good." They have been doing the same fucking shit for 60 years now and all it gets them is their ass kicked, and their children killed.
DVD Burner wrote:Israel doesn't seem to be able to stop the rockets from coming in.
Yep stupidity is hard to stop, sort of like drunk drivers and fucking tweeker/thieves. Comes a point where you have to deal with them.

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:53 am

goathead wrote:
DVD Burner wrote: Israel and the U.S. are very good at spinning shit.
Israel goes into Gaza, kills a few people they claim is Hamas, leaves and waits for the Hamas retaliation, then Israel claims Hamas is firing rockets and needs to defend itself.
Like Hamas doesn't spin shit? Yeah right..
It would be a good idea to post some facts of when they have just I have posted facts of when Israel has lied.


DVD Burner wrote: If anything, the Palestinians need to defend themselves.
goathead wrote:Yep just keep the fucking killing going on, if anything they need to make peace with Israel. End this shit.
Seems you dont really know what is going on with Israel and the zionist that run the place at the moment.
They are full blown Racists. It's why everyone is calling what Israel is doing apartheid. Fuckin aye right I'd fight against these assholes too.
DVD Burner wrote:Too bad Hamas doesn't have the weapons Israel has.
goathead wrote:Wishing for a bigger and better blood bath? Yep, thats real constructive.
See my statement above.
DVD Burner wrote:Rearm? Shit, Hamas builds their own arms and it seems they are doing pretty darn good.
goathead wrote:Yeah look at just what they have accomplished. Getting a fuckload of their own people killed because they "builds their own arms and it seems they are doing pretty darn good." They have been doing the same fucking shit for 60 years now and all it gets them is their ass kicked, and their children killed.


You mean the same ol lies Israel has been doing for 60 years. Can you at least do your research? Dude, you really are a sucker for American news media TV.
DVD Burner wrote:Israel doesn't seem to be able to stop the rockets from coming in.
goathead wrote:Yep stupidity is hard to stop, sort of like drunk drivers and fucking tweeker/thieves. Comes a point where you have to deal with them.
So I guess you agree with the racist that run Israel eh?

Hey, that's on you.

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Post by Elderberry » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:52 pm

goathead wrote:
ygmir wrote:yeah, it seems like it might come down to arm em all, get out of the way, and, deal with the winner...........

since, we can't disarm them, give em all a fighting chance.........
How many wars has Israel fought where she was the underdog?
Depends on who's telling the story. According to them, the were always the underdog.

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:37 pm

goathead wrote:And we all know what fine people Hamas are.

[youtube][/youtube]
Still haven't heard your opinion on the apartheid Israel is imposing.

Israel wouldn't have the problems they have now if apartheid was not imposed.

Nor have I heard your opinion about how the U.S and Israel created Hamas.

What say you?


And I have watched all your videos. Have you watched any of mine?
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Post by littleflower » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:54 pm

you wanna talk apartheid, DVD?

the only palestinians who do not live under apartheid are those living in israel or the west.

the entire arab world practices apartheid against the palestinians.

why single out israel? why not syria, lebanon, saudi arabia, &c?

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Post by goathead » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:11 pm

DVD Burner wrote: It would be a good idea to post some facts of when they have just I have posted facts of when Israel has lied.
Sort of like this.
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_conte ... ticle=1603
DVD Burner wrote:Seems you dont really know what is going on with Israel and the zionist that run the place at the moment.
They are full blown Racists. It's why everyone is calling what Israel is doing apartheid. Fuckin aye right I'd fight against these assholes too.
So you judge all Israelis by that asshole?

If I judged all Palestinians by the acts of their "martyrs" like the one who killed a friend of mine back in 2000 I would say FUCKING FRY THEM ALL.
But I don't think they are all like that.
As far as not knowing what's going on FUCK YOU.
DVD Burner wrote:Too bad Hamas doesn't have the weapons Israel has.
goathead wrote:Wishing for a bigger and better blood bath? Yep, thats real constructive.
DVD Burner wrote:See my statement above.
Like I said you wish to see a bigger blood bath right? I would rather see PEACE.

DVD Burner wrote:You mean the same ol lies Israel has been doing for 60 years. Can you at least do your research? Dude, you really are a sucker for American news media TV.
Just like you suck up the Hamas lies.
DVD Burner wrote:Israel doesn't seem to be able to stop the rockets from coming in.
DVD Burner wrote:So I guess you agree with the racist that run Israel eh?
Hey, that's on you.
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Israel Will No Longer Exist
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Our Qur'an was right and your Talmud lied.
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You will never return. We will drive you out of the belly of the earth and you will disappear from the surface of the earth.

And I guess you agree with the murdering fuckers who never want peace till Israel disappears from the face of the Earth.

So just what does that make you?

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:37 pm

Just so everyone knows, a faction of fatah admitted today it was they that shot off the last round of rockets into Israel.

News at 11.
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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:42 pm

littleflower wrote:you wanna talk apartheid, DVD?

the only palestinians who do not live under apartheid are those living in israel or the west.
Wrong again.

How do you explain this: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/ ... 9723.shtml
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