The Republican Tax Cut Lie

[Apollonaris Zeus]

The Republicans are sticking to their old anti-tax stance in negotiating the new stimulus plan. To think that cutting taxes is the answer to creating a dynamically robust economy is a FUCKING LIE!

It does not work and it has not work! It's just a party platform and that is all that it is!

Where is the proof? We have the Bush Tax Cut bill to prove it!

Eight years of the biggest tax cut that led to the biggest federal deficit of all time! That's the proof!

What are the results of that tax cut? the situation we are in now!

Tax Cuts only give more money to those that have most of it- the wealthy. Giving Joe Six Pack an extra $5 bucks in his pocket is just another six pack of fat on his belly! The Bush stimulus plan is a good model of giving money directly to the consumer- buy crack or pay-off bills!

Tax cuts create no incentive to reinvest unless its to buy overpriced estates or more stocks which in turn just exacerbates real estate and stock market inflation! This is why we have a major correction in real estate and a stock market pyramid scam!

what should be done to stimulate the economy instead of just Tax Cuts?

Tax Write Offs-or Off Incentives!!!

A 30% to a full write off! A Write Off when you spend on job creation, hardware and building warehouses, offices and storefronts and not land investment or housing!

So when you hear the Republican mantra of TAX CUT hear the lie of platform propaganda!

AIIZ

[ygmir]

you seem so bitter...............

[Ugly Dougly]

When a check comes from the government, it's funding by cranking up the old printing press, whether that check comes from a Republican tax-cut or a Democratic stimulus bill. Isn't it the same diff?

[ygmir]

exactly, UD.

To Gov.:

I say, get out of the way and let the chips fall where they may.......
the phoenix will rise from the ashes......

re-order is painful, and, necessary.

[Apollonaris Zeus]

When a check comes from the government, it's funding by cranking up the old printing press, whether that check comes from a Republican tax-cut or a Democratic stimulus bill. Isn't it the same diff?

No!

Tax cuts have never created a job!

Greed does!

Opportunity does!

It didn't work with Bush and the republicans and it won't now.

Yes, I'm bitter when it comes to party proproganda rhetoric! The republicans have cut billions for social workers and union construction jobs, like cops, teachers and other state and local employees. That's retribution directed at the constituency that voted for the Democrats. the republican design to piss them off and direct their anger towarded Obama and the Dems. We need those jobs to help get us out of this Republican mess! We don't need these games at the worst recession in our lifetime!

AIIZ

[ygmir]

When a check comes from the government, it's funding by cranking up the old printing press, whether that check comes from a Republican tax-cut or a Democratic stimulus bill. Isn't it the same diff?

No!

Tax cuts have never created a job!

Greed does!

Opportunity does!

It didn't work with Bush and the republicans and it won't now.

Yes, I'm bitter when it comes to party proproganda rhetoric! The republicans have cut billions for social workers and union construction jobs, like cops, teachers and other state and local employees. That's retribution directed at the constituency that voted for the Democrats. the republican design to piss them off and direct their anger towarded Obama and the Dems. We need those jobs to help get us out of this Republican mess! We don't need these games at the worst recession in our lifetime!

AIIZ

wow, yikes.........

How do you now, blame the reps for cutting anything, when, the dems hold the power and votes?.........
The dems have to agree, don't they, to whatever the proposal is?

And targeting Unions, those bastions of fair play and, honest dealings?
Standard bearers of efficiency in the workplace.
Non corrupt and, transparent in all they do?.......

giggle.......

Is it not true, that, economics are mostly driven by the people that create a product?
Service and gov. jobs, as important as they are, I don't deny their need.
And, anyone with a job, or business, is buying stuff, hiring people, etc. are they not?
Even the rich don't just put money in cans....they buy yachts and planes that keep those business alive......on and on........
middle and lower income buy things, too.
it all works like a big machine........

the breakdown, IMHO, came from greed, on both sides, and people not paying attention to what they're doing........
making money simply by pushing "buy and sell" buttons, not creating or providing anything substantial.........
or, taking out loans, that, if they'd done any sort of "critical thinking" they'd know they couldn't afford, or, that something was amiss.......

Lots of mistakes made, lots of innocents hurt, and, IMHO, plenty of blame to go around.

maybe quit crying about spilled milk, and, move forward......

[Elderberry]

maybe quit crying about spilled milk, and, move forward......

JK

[ygmir]

now, that brings tears to my eyes...........

Looks suspiciously like one of our eplayans that lives near you.......

[Apollonaris Zeus]

wow, yikes.........

How do you now, blame the reps for cutting anything, when, the dems hold the power and votes?.........
The dems have to agree, don't they, to whatever the proposal is?

And targeting Unions, those bastions of fair play and, honest dealings?
Standard bearers of efficiency in the workplace.
Non corrupt and, transparent in all they do?.......

giggle.......

Is it not true, that, economics are mostly driven by the people that create a product?
Service and gov. jobs, as important as they are, I don't deny their need.
And, anyone with a job, or business, is buying stuff, hiring people, etc. are they not?
Even the rich don't just put money in cans....they buy yachts and planes that keep those business alive......on and on........
middle and lower income buy things, too.
it all works like a big machine........

the breakdown, IMHO, came from greed, on both sides, and people not paying attention to what they're doing........
making money simply by pushing "buy and sell" buttons, not creating or providing anything substantial.........
or, taking out loans, that, if they'd done any sort of "critical thinking" they'd know they couldn't afford, or, that something was amiss.......

Lots of mistakes made, lots of innocents hurt, and, IMHO, plenty of blame to go around.

maybe quit crying about spilled milk, and, move forward......

Yikes, Wow!

spilled milk! I wish I could minimalize this economy and everyone that is suffering. But...

"..they buy yachts and planes that keep those business alive......on and on........"

Guess what? They are still buying them. see here:

Feb 10th 2009

EMERGING LUXURY YACHT MARKETS: ANALYSIS, ATTRACTIVENESS AND TRENDS

Pleasure craft made in Italy, basically represented by luxury yachts, are still discussed positively, in spite of the international economic difficulties of recent years, and not only due to the constant growth of the sector but also to a significant trend towards international export.
In particular the latest international market surveys show an overall growth on the superyacht market of 6%, with a worldwide order book of 688 units for the 2005-2006 sailing season.

Italian yards, well known for design, styling and interior finishes, are unquestioned market leaders, both for number of units and the overall length of pleasure craft under construction.

As regards the placement markets it is important to point out that we are dealing with a "global" market inasmuch as the potential customers for these luxury toys, people defined in private banking terms as "high net worth individuals", are found in various parts of the world.

The Italian yachting industry exports more than 60% of its entire national production, confirming that this is an international economic segment.

Figure 1 shows evolution of the market positioning breakdown of yachts made in Italy. The same figure shows, in spite of national market recovery, that foreign markets are the main destination of Italian luxury yachts.

So analysing the various international market outlets for luxury yachts we find certain emerging markets that show interesting development prospects.

With reference to the latter, quantification of the potential market is particularly important. It is unquestionably delineated by the presence of the so called and by now well known super-rich, who make up the main customer profile for luxury yachts.

Figure 3 shows the evolutionary trend in the number of millionaires in the main emerging areas such as Asia-Pacific, the Middle East and Latin America.


In 2004 the total number of millionaires in the emerging countries amounted to 2.9 million individuals, a 12% growth compared with the previous year.

But apart from the trend it is especially interesting, as shown in Figure 4, to point out the percentage of total worldwide millionaires in the emerging countries. A propos of this it should be underlined that over and above the growing number of individual millionaires a further element is the percentage of them in the emerging countries, which has grown from 33% in 2002 to 34% in 2004.



In this context it should be remembered that only certain countries can be defined as "emerging markets for luxury yachts": Russia, China, India and the United Arab Emirates.

Figure 5 shows the growing number of individual millionaires in the above countries, with the related average growth rate over the past 3 years.



In overall terms Russia, China and the United Arab Emirates are among the countries which as well as having the largest number of millionaires also evince an extremely interesting evolutionary dynamic.



Going further into detail we can identify useful indicators towards outlining a country-profile for a structural analysis - found in figures 6 and 7 - that provides a summarised geographical, social and economic-political picture of Russia, China, India and the United Arab Emirates.



But to remain in a strictly yachting context, as well as the macroeconomic picture it would be helpful to have some specific references regarding the yacht market in these countries, with view to outlining certain considerations regarding market evolutionary trends.

China is certainly an interesting market for yachts, but it is believed that this market will effectively take off only when there are objective conditions for development, consisting fundamentally of port infrastructures.

We cannot yet speak of a specific Asiatic yachting system because there are no adequate structures for pleasure craft sailing. But the presence of numerous business projects for new port structures bodes well for the near future.

A recent project is the one in Qingdao, north-east China, where a marina of enormous potential is being built. It was devised for the 2008 Olympics sailboat races, but as soon as these are over it will be converted into a tourist structure. In particular, after the Olympics the structures will be extended and converted into a vast area for pleasure craft, with a total investment of 9.1 billion dollars.

In a recent interview Paolo Vitelli, current president of UCINA, the National Association of Boat Industries and Shipyards, underlined how little the Chinese love the sea and sunbathing, but they are very fond of clubs. In fact all the new marina projects envisage luxury clubhouses: the yacht will be less of a means for sport than a success symbol for rich Chinese.

In conclusion, the Chinese market shows all the potential signs for development of a yachting market, especially in the upper range, but this will only be possible when a series of objective conditions are concretely developed (port structures, regulations etc.) as well as proper consumer education, the latter being necessary for effective development of the potential market.

As for the United Arab Emirates, in the course of the last sailing season Italian exports to these countries amounted to 14.3 million euros, a 27% growth with regard to the previous year, confirming the dynamic nature of this market for yachts made in Italy.

This year's Dubai Boat Show had more than 400 exhibitors, 75 of them Italian, with 120 yachts in the water and 25 thousand visitors on the quays of Mina Seyahi. Some surveys speak of the overall sum of deals concluded as being in excess of one hundred million dollars, evincing a growth in step with the building sites that have sprung up all along the coast, working at a sustained pace to make this place a Caribbean for Europeans.

The whole yachting infrastructure currently offers about 28.350 berths, but new marinas are under construction which envisage a further 25.000 berths, thus doubling availability.

Forecasts say that "elite" pleasure craft sailing will explode in the next five years.

In analysing the United Arab Emirates market it is also interesting to note the direction taken by certain banks in the area such as Hsbc Middle East and the Abu Dhabi National Bank which have developed specific financial products for yacht purchase.

From analysis of emerging yacht markets we see that Russia over the last sailing season became one of the countries where growth in importation of Italian yachts was greatest..

In detail, exportation of Italian yachts to Russia amounted to 11.8 million euros, a growth of 143% over the previous year.

These figures confirm the growing attractiveness of this market. In fact the sale of yachts is flourishing, hand in hand with other top of the range products. Yachts are very fashionable and the wealthiest Russians are replacing "economical" models with luxury yachts costing 10 million dollars plus. The fashion seems to be dictated by millionaire Roman Abramovich who owns 3 of the world's most luxurious vessels. Many owners imitate the Russian tycoon by keeping their precious yachts in Mediterranean ports, but some take them to Russia and limit themselves to mini-cruises along the canals that link the internal waterways around the Russian capital and other big rivers in the European part of the country.

The 12th Moscow International Boat Show (MIBS 2006) enjoyed a 21% increase over the previous year. More than 250 exhibitors, 10% of them first time participants. 80% were foreign companies from 15 countries including the UK, Poland, Finland and Turkey.

Lastly, in analysing the performances and attractiveness of emerging markets on the basis of available information, what clearly stands out is that the global nature of the yachting market may find numerous business opportunities in these new outlets, where some forecasters see a growing trend towards luxury yachts.

So from a marketing point of view, aiming at effective market penetration, the specific features for each country must be evaluated with view to planning and implementing the best strategic-operational approach.

End of article

As this article states, Luxury items haven't slowed down but have gone up!

In the housing market the only houses that are still being build are multimillion dollar homes!

the rich aren't hurting. but they may not be making as much, but it still millions (some Billions more a year) then you.

We need their dollars to make the jobs that help the middle class.

And that's tax incentives.

and we know the Rushes controlled Republicans are out to do only one thing- make this administration fail. Fail at the expense of the Joe Six Packs they made out to be on the side of this past election.

and thanks for helping me point this out

AIIZ

[ygmir]

well, yeah........
and, who makes the yachts (only one example I know there are many)?
regular folks like me....or, maybe you......?

what's wrong with that? if you got money, and, spend it, does it not help others do the same?

my spilled milk reference, as is normal for that, is used in reference to the past, that you seem to cling to for complaining.......

ok, what's done is done. lets move forward, and, fix it. instill honesty and fair play.
I'm all for that.
I think we agree on it.

I don't use it to minimize what's going on. this is now, I was making past tense reference, to your complaining about what those "dirty rotten two faced cheatin liars" did.....
Well,
it's done. Sure, learn from the past, just don't dwell there.........IMHO.....

you say: "We need their dollars to make the jobs that help the middle class"

Is not buying stuff and engaging in commerce doing just that?
OR, do you have some sense you want to punish anyone who makes more than you think they should, by taxing them more, and, "redistributing" the wealth?
do not both ideas have the same result?
But, if you tax success in a "punishment" sense, don't you take away the incentive for success?
and, isn't a good economy and standard of living dependent on successful people, and, those who wish to be?

I note so much of the "hollywood elite" who prance and pontificate about helping everyone......well, how about them giving half their wealth to the needy? I don't see that........Sports stars........CEO's.........

But, if they're making extravagant purchases, "the little guy" still gets to sell and service the stuff........

I hope the reps are not out to create failure, just for failures sake......
I've rejected both parties, for the dishonesty they both display.......

But, I might submit, that, just because a prez is popular, a bad plan is still a bad plan.......
But, then again, I'm against the bailouts and stimuli.......

And,
thanks for pointing out what you did......

[Elderberry]

But, if you tax success in a "punishment" sense, don't you take away the incentive for success?

No, I don't think it does.

People that know how to make money will make more money to make up for what they are being taxed. Same as why trickle down is such a joke.

It is the job of business to make money (profit). Businesses can be helped much more by giving money to lower income people to buy the products business produce. Giving tax breaks and incentive money to business is no more than giving them a windfall profit. Thinking they will 'invest' this money back into the business is highly over rated and under thought. No business is going to close shop, whether they get tax incentives or not.

And, if they need a tax incentive to keep their doors open, they are not very successful and are just being subsidized--take the car industry as a perfect recent example.

JK

[ygmir]

JK:

Interesting.
The thing I take away from your post, is, what an example it is, for me, of how there are two schools of thought, aimed at the same result.

I guess, boiled down, I don't like the term "give" when it applies to profit or people.......

I'm no more in favor of subsidizing a business, than, I am of just handing money to people who can't, or won't, earn their own........
I agree with your car industry example.

I'd also argue, that, "giving" money, to anyone, still promotes spending......and, spending drives the machine, but, if it's "given" money, IMHO, the "machine" is falsely given more fuel and throttle, than would occur in a "natural state", and, is unsustainable.........and unstable.......

Not that I'm against charity, far from it. But, subsistence level help, with incentive to do better on your own, IMHO, is ok for individuals.

But, saying " Businesses can be helped much more by giving money to lower income people to buy the products business produce."

How can it be helped "much more", rich or poor, everyone buys stuff.......
I've heard it argued, although I'm not sure I totally agree, that, "rich" tend to buy more things made and services rendered, domestically......
and "poor" tend to get stuff at Walmart........
I have no judgment for or against either idea, but, it kind of makes sense......

True, the rich need less help than poor.......I understand that. I'm just against confiscatory tax rates, just because you are successful, lucky, whatever.........
IMHO, it just encourages tax cheating, etc...........

I've always been in favor of a flat tax, across the board, no deductions:

how much did you earn? Here's your tax bill.........
I bet it'd be surprising how low it'd be if everyone paid the same........

[Toolmaker]

I just want to point out that NAFTA and GATT were done by the Democrats. So far the Democrats refuse to get rid of the global government plans. Looks like Obama lied to everyone and the current plan on a new world order will continue to move forward. Get ready for socialism at its finest after a little bloodshed.

Hate to break it to you all.. there is no difference between the Republicans and Democrats. Any difference you notice is planned and meant to make the retarded masses believe that there is a difference between the two parties. When it comes to the important stuff like sending all the work overseas they agree 100 percent. Notice how Obama has not gotten rid of GATT or NAFTA. Notice how NOTHING is really being done except for a whole lot of talk.

If you really wanted change in governament you should have voted Libertarian. By voting for a Bilderschmuck you only get less jobs and excuses.

[Elderberry]

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Fact is there are too many people for the system to support. The poor are much more proficient breeders. Unless and until we get population under control there will never be a way for the system to work with out subsidies. I guess it just depends on whether you think trickle up is better than trickle down.

But based on the breeding habits of the poor, I think trickle up is the best option--next to sterilization. (Just think of the stupid bitch that just had those 8 kids--bringing her total to 14 now--and you and I are paying for all of them. How can our society afford that?)

There is no 'nice' answer to the problem; so we do the next best thing--welfare of one sort or another.

JK

JK:

Interesting.
The thing I take away from your post, is, what an example it is, for me, of how there are two schools of thought, aimed at the same result.

I guess, boiled down, I don't like the term "give" when it applies to profit or people.......

I'm no more in favor of subsidizing a business, than, I am of just handing money to people who can't, or won't, earn their own........
I agree with your car industry example.

I'd also argue, that, "giving" money, to anyone, still promotes spending......and, spending drives the machine, but, if it's "given" money, IMHO, the "machine" is falsely given more fuel and throttle, than would occur in a "natural state", and, is unsustainable.........and unstable.......

Not that I'm against charity, far from it. But, subsistence level help, with incentive to do better on your own, IMHO, is ok for individuals.

But, saying " Businesses can be helped much more by giving money to lower income people to buy the products business produce."

How can it be helped "much more", rich or poor, everyone buys stuff.......
I've heard it argued, although I'm not sure I totally agree, that, "rich" tend to buy more things made and services rendered, domestically......
and "poor" tend to get stuff at Walmart........
I have no judgment for or against either idea, but, it kind of makes sense......

True, the rich need less help than poor.......I understand that. I'm just against confiscatory tax rates, just because you are successful, lucky, whatever.........
IMHO, it just encourages tax cheating, etc...........

I've always been in favor of a flat tax, across the board, no deductions:

how much did you earn? Here's your tax bill.........
I bet it'd be surprising how low it'd be if everyone paid the same........

[Ugly Dougly]

Damn, you're typing all that for free, when you could have a job doing that.

[Box Burner]

Hate to break it to you all.. there is no difference between the Republicans and Democrats. Any difference you notice is planned and meant to make the retarded masses believe that there is a difference between the two parties. When it comes to the important stuff like sending all the work overseas they agree 100 percent. Notice how Obama has not gotten rid of GATT or NAFTA. Notice how NOTHING is really being done except for a whole lot of talk.

If you really wanted change in governament you should have voted Libertarian. By voting for a Bilderschmuck you only get less jobs and excuses.

I said it before and I will say it again. If you voted for a republican or a democrat you wasted your vote. They are two sides of the same wooden nickel. Note that we have a two party system and both parties want to keep it that way. Anyone else se something wrong with that picture?

[ygmir]

Hate to break it to you all.. there is no difference between the Republicans and Democrats. Any difference you notice is planned and meant to make the retarded masses believe that there is a difference between the two parties. When it comes to the important stuff like sending all the work overseas they agree 100 percent. Notice how Obama has not gotten rid of GATT or NAFTA. Notice how NOTHING is really being done except for a whole lot of talk.

If you really wanted change in governament you should have voted Libertarian. By voting for a Bilderschmuck you only get less jobs and excuses.

I said it before and I will say it again. If you voted for a republican or a democrat you wasted your vote. They are two sides of the same wooden nickel. Note that we have a two party system and both parties want to keep it that way. Anyone else se something wrong with that picture?

I didn't

I agree

ditto

yes

[MikeVDS]

Both parties play a role in this fucked up system we're currently stuck with. You cannot allow money to keep making money faster and faster, which is the natural way without any intervention. There is a role of "unearned income" in our economy but it cannot be unlimited and sustained.

On the other side, you do not want to make the uneducated or unwilling to work too comfortable or it encourages the following generations to follow the same path. Hand up, not hand out. If both parties pass a bill that they are unhappy with, it may be a decent bill. The amount of regulations, welfare and other various laws that are "ideal" changes with time so I see the push back and forth as a good thing.

I do agree that the Reps are tax cut liars though. I'd vote for a less government party with realistic ideas, but the reps have been the party of big government during my lifetime. The Dems have been more fiscally responsible. Sure they waste money on crap I don't want them to, but so do the repubs and the dems don't seem so idealistic that they do stupid shit all the time based on principal rather than pragmatically addressing current situations.

[Oldguy]

Senate Voting on Stimulus Bill
Today

Earlier today, the House passed H.R. 1 by a vote of 246-183. The Senate is currently voting on final passage, as they have 59 “Ayeâ€

[cowboyangel]

all republicans should be sent to Guantanimo. Forever

[ygmir]

all republicans should be sent to Guantanimo. Forever

sounds like a turd-ish statement........

[Apollonaris Zeus]

Too bad for the republicans last month. they were complaining about the stock market and its downward spiral. Now they look like idiots.

So now they're talking about the socialists and the budget.

In four years, when the economy is chuggin alongs and national health insurance is helping workers and employees from going into bankruptcy and companies sending jobs overseas. The republican party will almost extinct because they didn't do anything except try to make Obama and America fail so they could get back at dismantling our country.

The republican party may go way of the Dodo with the Libertarian party as the other major party in America.

Warren Buffet has even endorsed the 29% tax for the wealthest Americans saying the Republican 17% tax hasn't been helpful to the American Economy and budget!

But I'm sure they'll say, "the recovery already started during Bush's term!" and there'll be an idiot or two out there that will believe it. They still believe the WMD's are still buried in the sand outside bagdad!

[**burn**]

Does that spread the wealth, or the poverty?

_________
Risky

[Apollonaris Zeus]

Does that spread the wealth, or the poverty?

_________
Risky

Hopefully a bit of both

[Apollonaris Zeus]

Republican fronted, Tea Tax Revolt, protests are slated for today!

You have to watch out for these Republicans even their Anti-National Health Care Activists of which this group is a part of!

National Heath Care Today!!!!

AIIZ

[Apollonaris Zeus]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Elderberry]

LOL I was born and raised in Cleveland--now you know why I left.

JK

[Apollonaris Zeus]

LOL I was born and raised in Cleveland--now you know why I left.

JK

I was wondering what was up with you?

All is forgiven!

[Elderberry]

It's interesting, almost all the people in that video have actually gotten a tax cut that took effect April 1, 2009 thanks to Obama. Considering they don't even know that Obama was born in the U.S. I'm also sure they don't even realize the reason they got more money in their last pay check was because they the President gave them a tax cut. Hmmm....I wonder how many of those people even have jobs and how many of them are on some sort of "socialist" welfare? I mean they are out their protesting in the middle of the work day.

JK

[oneeyeddick]

Even funnier would be the people out there protesting that are currently drawing Emergency Unemployment Compensation, signed in by Obama.

They wouldn't even have an income to protest about if it wasn't for that.

( that's the boat I am in right now, and I ain't bitching about it )