Art Car/MV advice/tips

[Julian]

My camp is undertaking an art car for this year. I was hoping to speak with someone in a camp(s) who have experience with building, moving sizeable art cars and ask some logistical questions.

THanks.

[oneeyeddick]

Ask away, we are all listening.

[dragonfly Jafe]

you are wise to begin with logistical considerations. I learned the hard way this is one of the most important things to successfully having a MV at BM.

How will the MV get to BM? (I recommend you do not drive it there, but trailer it if possible)?

What is the total weight capacity of the towing rig and trailer? Are experienced drivers available to drive the tow rig?

Where will the MV be parked at BM?

Where will the MV be stored when not at BM?

ask your questions, plenty of experience on this site!

[Julian]

[quote="dragonfly Jafe"]you are wise to begin with logistical considerations. I learned the hard way this is one of the most important things to successfully having a MV at BM.

How will the MV get to BM? (I recommend you do not drive it there, but trailer it if possible)?

What is the total weight capacity of the towing rig and trailer? Are experienced drivers available to drive the tow rig?

Where will the MV be parked at BM?

Where will the MV be stored when not at BM?

ask your questions, plenty of experience on this site![/quote]


Those are some good ones.

I was thinking we'd drive it to BM. The plan was to get it ready and make sure everything goes together and works, then disassemble what we need to get it on the road, and reassemble once there.

I believe we have a permanent storage facility near BRC worked out already.

As for parking it at BM, that is a question we do need to deal with. We may have a camp on the Esplanade this year, so parking may be something we have to sort out.

I'm now looking for a temporary storage/work space near LA so we can get the MV together over the spring/summer. Any advice to finding something suitable would be appreciated.

I also know I'm bound to have a ton of questions as we're going to rig it for sound, although the guys who play in our band and have all the pro sound stuff should be able to figure that out. I hope.

[dragonfly Jafe]

I was thinking we'd drive it to BM....

this way can lead to ruin...

if the vehicle breaks down, it likely being an older vehicle with some mileage, and possibly being overloaded (you don't say if it will be hauling all of the MV coverings plus your camp gear or not), you are screwed. Happened to me two years running, despite thousands in vehicle prep each year.

if you tow it, and your tow vehicle breaks down, it is (relatively) easy to rent a new tow vehicle and still pull off your trip (with your MV).

but if you must, do not overload it (best yet do not load it at all), and prep whatever you can with lots of spares, because your eggs are all in one basket.

[Julian]

We definitely have a box truck to bring up all our gear, so the MV wouldn't be pulling that duty.

The plan would be to drive the MV up with the coverings etc. inside.

[Dork]

I'd suggest the opposite - take the extra $$ you would have spent on the towing rig and buy a newer, more reliable base vehicle you can drive there and back. The MV I built has driven up and back the last 5 years. The only problems it's had were ones that would have happened on the playa anyway.

Get a reliable base vehicle! You'll have a ton of work to do already, no need to saddle yourself with expensive and time consuming repairs before you've even started with modifications. Small FI engines have been good to me.

Start with the overall vision of what the end product should look like then find a vehicle and start modifying it with that in mind rather than chopping up a car and figuring out the art later. It will wind up looking like a chopped up car with stuff thrown on it.

It will take longer and cost much more than you're guessing. Start as early as possible and don't over-commit yourself financially!

[Dr. Pyro]

And you may run into the problem we had last year: even though our art vehicle had been cleared from 2004-2007, and it was used to also carry our fire cannon*, we were denied by the DMV a license for 2008. This is neither the place nor time to discuss whether or not that was a proper decision (suffice it to say it will be radically altered for this year), but your MV could get shot down by people completely out of your control. If I were you, I wouldn't necessarily get my hopes up.

[Julian]

Hey Dork,

That's the approach I was taking. Have the picture in my head of what it should be and we're going to work like that. Just chip away the parts of the block that don't belong, so to speak.

So Pyro, what is it that they DQ people on? When you say 'don't get your hopes up' are you saying they're kinda stingy on DMV licenses?

[capjbadger]

So Pyro, what is it that they DQ people on? When you say 'don't get your hopes up' are you saying they're kinda stingy on DMV licenses?

Mostly if you can tell what the base vehicle is, you might get DQ'ed. That was Tieland's (Pyro's MV) main problem.

Badger

[Dr. Pyro]

Last year me and my friend Sunset (sticky sunset on the 3Playa) were on top of that 10 story structure on Wednesday around noon. I said to her look out over the playa and what do you see? She stopped for a moment, and then said, "There are no art cars out there!" In years past there would be a lot of them, this year relatively few. The DMV points their fingers at the BMOrg who point their fingers to the BLM who point their fingers to the Pershing County sheriffs, and on and on it goes. In our case we weren't allowed to set off the fire cannon within the confines of the city (understandably so I might add) so we were required to haul it out to the open playa. But it weighs nearly 300 pounds, and over 500 pounds when you add in the propane. But it was catch 22: we had to have our art truck to haul out the fire cannon but the art truck didn't pass DMV inspection so our fire cannon stayed at home. It was such a bunch of bullshit. They will DQ you if the said vehicle still looks anything (and I mean ANYTHING) like a car or truck, even though somehow golf carts get away with murder (nepotism I have been told). And the problem is even if you get an OK early, when you show up on the playa to get it registered they can still say no and you have no recourse. I hope they overhaul the system this year, but in my 10 years of going to Burning Man, when things change, they generally change for the worse. This is a classic example.

[motskyroonmatick]

I made a very detailed application. It took me hours and hours but it got me a license two years in a row. Regretfully the vehicle was not ready the first year but I did get it on playa, licensed and operated it until it broke the second year. I had a good experience with DMV and the inspection was not that big of a deal. Be sure to pay attention to safety of the riders and make a checklist of all required devices (mirrors) and items (first aid kit and fire extinguishers). Don't let any of that go to chance. Different people have all sorts of ranges of experience with DMV. I'm sure being prepared and having all the requirements covered will give you the best chance of sailing smoothy through the process.

I too thought there weren't many MVs when I was out thursday afternoon.

[Dork]

Doc - do you really need to use every MV thread to air your gripe? You could at least post a picture so people understand what sort of cars are getting rejected.

To the OP - as long as it's reasonably safe and doesn't look like the base vehicle anymore you're in good shape for getting approved.

[ibdave]

Doc - do you really need to use every MV thread to air your gripe? You could at least post a picture so people understand what sort of cars are getting rejected.

To the OP - as long as it's reasonably safe and doesn't look like the base vehicle anymore you're in good shape for getting approved.

I do believe Doc was asked why he got DQed and before that Doc made the statement " This is neither the place nor time to discuss whether or not that was a proper decision."

Oh well said the man that slipped on a Banana....

[oneeyeddick]

Doc got DQ'd because.....well....everyone at the DMV simply hates ties....There.....I said it.

Let the truth be told.

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Julian, if you don't mind sharing, wanna let us in on what you are building ?
Sketches would be cool to see at this point.

(always get your hopes up when appyling for a DMV liscence....we all do it, it's part of the fun)

[Captain Goddammit]

The first thing you need to research is exactly what kinds of vehicles do and do not get licensed. Getting a DMV license is your biggest obstacle.
This ties in with how you'll get it there: if it's still "car" enough to drive it there, it's likely not "mutant" enough to get a DMV sticker. Most good mutant vehicles are nowhere near street-legal. There are a lot of good reasons to carry your MV on a trailer, and that's one of the biggest.
The DMV really wants high-effort vehicles that are either scratch-built or so completely "mutated" that they are not recognizable as an automobile or truck.

[lordgrizz]

I worked at the DMV last year, and I have to say it was certainly challenging at times.
There where MV that came in like PA-DOW! - Fabulous freaky-cool vehicle. Licensed no prob. Then there were folks that brought in stuff that looked like a golf cart with stuff tacked on...problem.

None of the people I worked with liked telling anyone no you can't have a license. But it sometimes had to be done. When there was a rejection, it always came after much discussion and consensus. And always for a reason.

Read the guidelines, follow them. If you have any doubts add more lights. you'll be fine.

[dragonfly Jafe]

...This ties in with how you'll get it there: if it's still "car" enough to drive it there, it's likely not "mutant" enough to get a DMV sticker. Most good mutant vehicles are nowhere near street-legal. There are a lot of good reasons to carry your MV on a trailer, and that's one of the biggest....

Listen to the Captain (and drink his margaritas)!

It is easier to create a proper mutated vehicle, using less weight, if you do not have to have it also be legal on regular street too.

If you strip off the regular car, and seats, etc that becomes extra payload capacity without overloading your base car (engine, transmission, shocks, bearings, brakes, etc). It is also very easy to add metal for decks, etc.

If you add to a street legal car, you need to really cover everything as much as possible (without restricting driver's vision) to have a chance of getting licensed. Then on top of the street legal weight and mutant covering weight, you want to carry people. Very easy to overload things (vehicles have tipped over, etc).

Best bet (IMHO) is to start with a pickup, reinforce or block the shocks, and strip everything down to the chassis and start from there. Or if a party barge is not your style do what the Captain recommends and start with a front wheel drive vehicle and chop everything from the driver back (add new rear mutated end). Consider moving the driving controls to a new location. And fire effects. Trailer it. Do these things at least half-way decently, and it is almost a sure bet to get licensed (and photographed).

Best of luck, and be careful - mutant vehicles have a way of becoming holes that money disappears into!

[poisenloaf]

Our camp just acquired an MV from a previous burner who took it to BM five years.. it was called the Ambience Ambulance (based on a mid 80s ambulance conversion) if anybody remembers it. I think 2006 was the last year it was there. It definately still looks like a vehicle but maybe they were more lax in approving vehicles in previous years. I'm taking heed to the comments here though about our best chance of approval is to make sure it does not look like a vehicle. We are hoping to turn it into the Purple People Eater in light of this year's theme. :D

On that note, how do these sound cars like Robot Heart or the furry glow bus get approved? Robot Heart obviously looked like a double-decker bus just with a fuck ton of audio/jumbotron/cool lights (my favorite sound car last year yay!). I guess they get a bit more leeway on appearance because of how over the top it is?

[Julian]

[quote="oneeyeddick"]Doc got DQ'd because.....well....everyone at the DMV simply hates ties....There.....I said it.

Let the truth be told.

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Julian, if you don't mind sharing, wanna let us in on what you are building ?
Sketches would be cool to see at this point.

(always get your hopes up when appyling for a DMV liscence....we all do it, it's part of the fun)[/quote]

Working on sketches now. I'll keep it under my hat a bit longer before i share.

[poisenloaf]

I'd suggest the opposite - take the extra $$ you would have spent on the towing rig and buy a newer, more reliable base vehicle you can drive there and back. The MV I built has driven up and back the last 5 years. The only problems it's had were ones that would have happened on the playa anyway.

Dork, could you share what your MV is? Given you were able to drive it up (street legal?) and still get it DMV approved I'm interested..have any pics?

[Julian]

my quote function seems to be lame.

[oneeyeddick]

My MV has always been street legal the rest of the year.

I used to drive it from Seattle towing a U-haul trailor also.(7 years)

The last two years I have used a tow bar on it behind my RV.

This year will be my first using a trailor for it and showing up with it completely assembled(mostly).

Not having to spend the two extra days assembling on playa will be nice for a change.




The Penis is a very large flamethrower, and also during the day it usually get switched out with a very large squirting version, just not in this pic.

Function over form, plus a long history is why it passes every year.

Having the right attitude when dealing with the ever changing staff at the DMV helps a lot also.

[SnowBlind]

They will DQ you if the said vehicle still looks anything (and I mean ANYTHING) like a car or truck, even though somehow golf carts get away with murder

If anything, the DMV is harder on golf carts than on larger MVs, because a lot of them still look like a decorated golf cart. Those usually get denied.

If you do see plain looking golf carts driving around, they are almost never licensed as MVs. They are either handicapped licensed, or have a Staff or DPW sticker.

[theCryptofishist]

my quote function seems to be lame.

Uncheck "Disable BBCode in this post" or go to your profile and uncheck once to never have to uncheck again.

[Julian]

my quote function seems to be lame.

Uncheck "Disable BBCode in this post" or go to your profile and uncheck once to never have to uncheck again.

Thanks.

[Dork]

Dork, could you share what your MV is? Given you were able to drive it up (street legal?) and still get it DMV approved I'm interested..have any pics?

Bad angle and the stinger is missing (must have stung someone and gotten pulled out)


It's several years old so I'd shoot a little higher when it comes to hiding the car-ness.

Many wire mesh and fabric covered cars like the cheshire cat could easily still be street legal and be re-assembled on playa. I don't know if they are, but it's possible. I looked up the California street legal requirements when I was building the thing and they're very lax as long as it was once a licensed car and never had a salvage title - you need clear view to the front and both sides, at least one rear view mirror, all the standard lights in front/back, and bumpers on the front and back the same width as the widest part of the car. They don't need to be stock bumpers, just something that could be called a bumper. Our car just has some 1" square steel where bumpers should be. It's been pulled over and followed for miles but never gotten a ticket for being weird. The arms come off and the tail folds down for transit.

[poisenloaf]

Very cool..any more details about the mesh and fabric you used, where you got it, how it is to work with etc? That looks very similar to the one of the things we want to do to add structure to our vehicle to help it look more like what we are envisioning.

[Dork]

Sorry, I knew that was unclear when I posted it. My car does not have a fabric covering, but many do.

Those cars generally use lycra/spandex over a metal frame. I've heard of 1/4" (give or take) steel rod being used to provide the shape.

[gyre]

Welded mesh or fabric can be stiff enough to form shapes.
I use stainless mesh for some things.
It may actually be too stiff for some uses.
Look at filter material in food handling to locate sources.
Steel fabric should be cheap.