Screw the Banks and Investment Firms

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Post by ygmir » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:58 pm

Box Burner wrote:In one form or another most politicians have their fingers in that pie. Keep in mind that banks are a Money for Nothin' proposition. They get your money for nothing in return. When I was kid I opened a savings account that paid the high return of 7&1/4 % monthly. when I closed that account it was paying only about 1&1/2% tjhis same bank will loan me money at somewhere between 9% to 23% interest compounded daily. WTF? They are going to loan me my money and charge me a high interest for it . And the kicker is that they encourage you to take out a loan at th 9 to 20% interest rate and keep your money in the bank so you can "save money" and earn the 1&1/2%. Does everyone have stupid written on their foreheads? Living on credit is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. And we as a nation got suckered in. And now our leaders want to bail out the banks so they can extend us more credit? Give me a break. You can rest assured that a good number of our leaders have their fingers in that pie. If Americans start saving money and paying cash for everything except major nessesary purchases the banks will "lose" all that interest. Wouldn't that be a shame.

maybe we should be keeping our money at home and hiring Smith and Wesson to protect it for us.
I'd say, if
you can follow the money trail, from bailouts to laws and regulations.......it'd lead right to the capitals, state and federal...........

the bailouts are structured as such, because, those making the bailout in that method profit the most from it...............

seems simple enough:

Politician:

Bail out B of A, et al, and, get generous "perks" and, campaign contributions.........

bailout Joe Sixpack, or crackpipe (Simon, hahaha), and, you get nothing personally, and, they still don't like or trust you..............

as a highly educated (mostly lawyers) individual, which would you choose......?

Go ahead, call me cynical.................
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Post by Elderberry » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:06 pm

Box Burner wrote:Does everyone have stupid written on their foreheads? Living on credit is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. And we as a nation got suckered in.
But we HAVE to keep up with the Jonses!!!!

JK
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Post by ygmir » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:08 pm

jkisha wrote:
Box Burner wrote:Does everyone have stupid written on their foreheads? Living on credit is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. And we as a nation got suckered in.
But we HAVE to keep up with the Jonses!!!!

JK
you mean Jim, from Gyana?..........
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Post by littleflower » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:12 pm

ygmir wrote:
Go ahead, call me cynical.................
you are soooooo cynical...

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Post by ygmir » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:17 pm

dang
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Post by littleflower » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:24 pm

i only wrote that cause you said to call you cynical ... and i always, ALWAYS do what i'm told ...!

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Post by ygmir » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:39 pm

*rubbing hands together and donning kilt ...........*
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:05 pm

I use his cousin,,,,, Dan Wesson.
The other alternative is to use your local community bank. Far better idea than subsidizing the mega-banks.
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Post by Elderberry » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:57 pm

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:
Box Burner wrote:Does everyone have stupid written on their foreheads? Living on credit is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. And we as a nation got suckered in.
But we HAVE to keep up with the Jonses!!!!

JK
you mean Jim, from Gyana?..........
Well, that wasn't exactly who I had in mind, but come to think about it, none of those people are having financial problems now either.

JK
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Post by ygmir » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:06 pm

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote: But we HAVE to keep up with the Jonses!!!!

JK
you mean Jim, from Gyana?..........
Well, that wasn't exactly who I had in mind, but come to think about it, none of those people are having financial problems now either.

JK
and, free cool aid...........
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:33 pm

GOV is trying to bail out the banks with $ 15--18 trillion.
" In early 2008, outstanding derivatives on the books of U.S. banks exceeded $180 trillion. However, $90 trillion of this was carried on the books of JPMorgan Chase alone, while Citibank and Bank of America each had $38 trillion on their books"

Here's an alternative to the screwing that we're getting at the hands of the big banks;

Quoting Ellen Brown on state owned banks - an excellent solution to the current economic disaster http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/newdeal.php:

"The State Bank Option http://www.banknd.nd.gov/bndhome.jsp

"While states are waiting for the federal government to step in, they could charter their own state-owned banks that issue low-interest credit on the fractional reserve model. Article I, Section 10, of the Constitution says that states shall not “emit bills of credit,â€
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:25 pm

Frida Be You & Me

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Post by can't sit still » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:54 pm

Some news;
What’s another trillion, give or take?

As American investors are about to discover: this time, it will mean a LOT.

Just days ago, the Obama administration announced plans to spend another $775 billion to $1 trillion on bailing out the troubled U.S. economy.

According to a study conducted by the San Francisco Chronicle, that brings the total bailout package up to $8.5 trillion (including the $700 billion Wall Street bailout… $600 billion to Fannie and Freddie… $168 billion in stimulus checks… the list goes on).

To put this into perspective, that’s more than this country spent on the New Deal ($500 billion)…

More than we spent on the invasion of Iraq ($597 billion)…

More than the entire lifetime budget of NASA ($851 billion)…

In fact, it’s more than all of these combined… and that includes throwing in the $256 billion we spent on the S&L bailouts of the 1980s… the $217 billion we spent on the Louisiana Purchase… and the $454 billion we spent on the Korean War!

And while this unprecedented ocean of artificial liquidity will surely lessen the effects of the recession… the unintended consequences could finish off the savings of millions of Americans… and they’re just days away.

We’re talking about something called the “Bailout Bombshell.â€
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Post by can't sit still » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:00 pm

One more small thing to worry about. Gold is very well tracked and recorded. The ETF, GLD claims that they have added 45 tons. There is no sign that there is any truth to this claim;
http://jsmineset.com/index.php/2009/02/ ... lion-from/
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Post by cowboyangel » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:59 pm

http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/47743


Webster Tarpley says it all. The guy predicted the economic collapse in 2007
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by can't sit still » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:00 pm

"Webster Tarpley says it all. The guy predicted the economic collapse in 2007"
I'm sure that he knew about it before '07. I figured it out in '05 and came back to Ca to get a grub stake. I started the "long cold winter" thread 5'/07. It was obvious in '05 that the fundamentals were far too screwey to allow a change to be implemented,,,, especially by bush
Now, our bond buyers are starting to get cold feet;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/brea ... -debt.html
It's a sad, sad day for the US..
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:13 pm

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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:33 pm

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Post by can't sit still » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:02 pm

Greenspan isn't stupid. We don't know why he did what he did. I suspect that he knew that the normal downturn of the Kondratieff cycle was imminent. He blew one last bubble so that there would be enough time left for an attack on iran. Notice that bush declared victory in iraq just as fast as he possibly could. He was in a hurry to move on to the next member of the axis of evil.
Greenspan seriously underestimated the damage that would be done by postponing the downturn. When he saw what was coming, he had to find a fall guy. Only someone in academia would be isolated enough to take the FED job. Bernanke is sorry now. There is a possibility that nobody can save the FED.
http://benbittrolff.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... lvent.html
There is nothing that is going to stop the adjustments coming to the world. The US would be a lot better off without the FED.
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 pm

Hey, they're all crooks.
That's what capitalism is.
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:54 pm

Bank of America's CEO is subpoenaed


CNN - 13 minutes ago

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/20/ban ... .subpoena/

(CNN) -- Bank of America CEO and Chairman Kenneth Lewis has been issued a subpoena by the New York State Attorney General's Office, which is investigating whether the bank violated state law by withholding information from investors, a source familiar with the investigation told CNN.
Kenneth Lewis is the CEO and chairman of Bank of America, the nation's largest bank.


Attorney General Andrew Cuomo has been highly critical of Wall Street firms in general and Merrill Lynch in particular for the way they have conducted themselves in the midst of a financial crisis.

Last week, he accused Merrill Lynch, which was acquired by Bank of America late last year, of secretly doling out big bonuses before reporting a huge quarterly loss.

"Merrill Lynch's decision to secretly and prematurely award approximately $3.6 billion in bonuses, and Bank of America's apparent complicity in it, raise serious and disturbing questions," Cuomo wrote in a letter to Rep. Barney Frank, D-Massachusetts, chairman of the House Committee on Financial Services.

In his letter to Frank, Cuomo said Merrill gave bonuses of at least $1 million each to 696 employees, with a combined $121 million going to the top four recipients. The next four recipients were awarded a total of $62 million, and the next six received $66 million, he said. In all, the bonuses for 2008 totaled $3.6 billion.

"While more than 39,000 Merrill employees received bonuses from the pool, the vast majority of these funds were disproportionately distributed to a small number of individuals," Cuomo wrote. "Indeed, Merrill chose to make millionaires out of a select group of 700 employees."

The attorney general said Merrill "awarded an even smaller group of top executives what can only be described as gigantic bonuses."
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* Stimulus package puts tough limits on executive pay

Cuomo also claimed Merrill handed out the bonuses ahead of its federally funded acquisition by Bank of America, which was announced in mid-September and closed by year's end.

It "appears that, instead of disclosing their bonus plans in a transparent way as requested by my office, Merrill Lynch secretly moved up the planned date to allocate bonuses and then richly rewarded their failed executives," Cuomo wrote.

Bank of America has received $45 billion in federal bailout money, including $20 billion to support its takeover of Merrill. Bank of America reported a net loss of $1.79 billion for the fourth quarter. Merrill reported a net loss of $15.31 billion for the fourth quarter.

Bank of America spokesman Scott Silvestri that Merrill was "an independent company" when the bonuses were awarded.

"Bank of America did urge the bonuses be reduced, including those at the high end," Silvestri wrote. "Although we had a right of consultation, it was their ultimate decision to make."

Silvestri said the top executives for Bank of America "took no incentive compensation for 2008," with an 80 percent reduction for the "next level" of executives.

Top executives from Bank of America -- as well as Bank of New York Mellon, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, State Street and Wells Fargo -- appeared before the Financial Services Committee last week to explain how they spent the $165 billion they received from the government's Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP.

In the testimony, Lewis said he received no bonus for 2008 and was paid a salary of $1.5 million.

Bank of America's stock, which traded higher than $40 a share in the past year, closed at a fresh 52-week low of $3.93 a share Thursday. It's the largest bank in terms of assets in the United States and is headquartered in Charlotte, North Carolina.
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:00 am

So this is where the USA becomes communist.

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Post by can't sit still » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:08 pm

Well, it's time to party;
" It will make sense for every upstanding American to stop paying their mortgage and to run their credit cards up to the limit. Pastor Adrian Rogers explained how many Americans feel today.

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
http://www.financialsense.com/editorial ... /0218.html
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Post by ygmir » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:16 pm

very well said, thanks for posting that........
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Post by can't sit still » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:43 pm

Reprtedly, Dubai has a debtors prison. I wonder if they have an exchange program. We could send Madoff :D
http://www.dailynewscaster.com/2009/02/ ... sphere-29/
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Post by cowboyangel » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:35 pm

Here's the best explanation of what derivatives are and what they do and why Paulson's bailout was evil evil evil.

Exclusive: Derivatives for Dummies by The Other Katherine Harris
Posted on February 18, 2009 by dandelionsalad

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The Other Katherine Harris

by The Other Katherine Harris
Featured Writer
Dandelion Salad
Feb. 18, 2009

Recent attempts by corporate media to explain the nature of our economic meltdown have left me ready to bite the ears off mice. They’ve been superficial, profoundly misleading and, above all, apologias for the likes of Paulson, Bernanke and Geithner. So, having spent every spare moment over the past three years studying the debacle that many saw brewing, here’s the simplest explanation I’ve come up with:

Imagine being able to insure a car that you don’t own or use. Imagine it’s the car your neighbors will let their teenage son drive, when he gets his license in a few weeks — and you know the kid is a reckless brat.

Now imagine that, by using financial derivatives called swaps, you can purchase as many insurance policies on this car as you can afford to pay premiums on.

When that car is eventually trashed and scrapped, you — and any friends you clued in on the deal - might collect millions, even billions, of dollars. By contrast, your neighbors, who bought real insurance on a real vehicle, get only its Blue Book value (and, one hopes, a chastened child).

This explains the primary problem with swaps. Anybody can bet on anything, so the nominal value of the bets far exceeds the actual worth of any property involved.

Still worse, no tangible or financial asset has to be in the picture. Wagers of any amount can be made, based only on opinions. You can bet on next Wednesday’s weather, if a counterparty wants to take the other side.

Only a fraction of swap action stems from logical situations in which, say, Party A owns a certain debt-based bond and Party B feels good enough about its prospects to accept premiums against possible default. Those are the Credit Default Swaps we hear so much about, which are a small part of the picture.

Similarly, Collateralized Debt Obligations comprise a much larger category than merely those bonds into which home mortgages have been sliced, diced, tranched and peddled to the unwary. Every type of debt is subject to the same treatment, called securitization or financialization. Commercial mortgages, student loans, home equity loans, credit card balances and auto notes spring immediately to mind, but it doesn’t stop there by any means. Among the latest wrinkles are buying up and bundling seniors’ life insurance policies and selling solar equipment with financing and service contracts attached, so that those obligations can be packaged and resold. Carbon credits, if cap-and-trade is approved in the US, instead of a sensible carbon tax, will be another new toy for the boyz.

Beyond swaps and CDOs, there are many other types of derivatives. Some serve no purpose except adding layers of expense to the delivery of commodities. Think of the possibilities as endless and you’ll be right.

This is how speculators in derivatives have created a “shadow economyâ€
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by ygmir » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:47 pm

"hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat"........


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Post by cowboyangel » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:47 pm

Oh yeah, and another thing. derivatives used to be ILLEGAL during the last depression. Because there is no fundamental movement from the Obama Administration to reform this diabolically corrupt system, (Geitner and Larry Summers are part of what created it in the first place) we can expect to see only worsening conditions, even another great depression. My guess.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by can't sit still » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:37 pm

At one level, this was all done on purpose. There are solutions. None of them are being implemented. This bailout that was all so urgent won't move much into the economy for a year or so. It wasn't a bailout, it was a non-debated funding bill.
If you read it for it's omissions, we're totally fucked :evil: :lol:

Here's an alternative to what GOV is doing;

Bernanke and the FED have admitted that they are completely in the dark.
Paul Craig Roberts has some good ideas. He is a former assistant treasury sec.

" Ladders of upward mobility are being dismantled by offshoring"

" The purchaser of a swap is not required to own the asset in order to contract for a guarantee of its value. Therefore, as many people could purchase as many swaps as they wished on the same asset. Thus, the total value of the swaps greatly exceeds the value of the assets.*"

Unlimited gambling as a result of zero regulation.

"The next step is for holders of the swaps to short the asset in order to drive down its value and collect the guarantee."

Just like shooting fish in a barrel.

" The federal government should declare all swap agreements to be fraudulent contracts, except for a single swap held by the owner of the asset."

" Simply wiping out these fraudulent contracts would remove the bulk of the vast overhang of "troubled" assets that threaten financial markets."

Just imagine where we would be if 90--95 % of all the derivatives just disappeared.


Commenting on the sub-prime bailout;
" The government did not need to spend one dime. All government needed to do was to suspend the mark-to-market rule. This simple act would have removed the solvency threat to financial institutions by allowing them to keep the derivatives at book value until financial institutions could ascertain their true values and write them down over time"


"Two more simple acts would have completed the rescue without costing the taxpayers one dollar: an announcement from the Federal Reserve that it will be lender of last resort to all depository institutions including money market funds, and an announcement reinstating the uptick rule."



The uptick rule was suspended or repealed a couple of years ago in order to permit hedge funds and shyster speculators to rip-off American equity owners. The rule prevented short-selling any stock that did not move up in price during the previous day."

"In other words, speculators could not make money at others' expense by ganging up on a stock and short-selling it day after day"

This was another turkey shoot. The hedge funds had enough money that they could always drive down a stock.

The Plunge Protection Team spends billions of our money trying to uphold the price of stocks. At the same time, GOV allows speculators to drive down prices to make profits.


"As a former Treasury official, I am amazed that the US government, in the midst of the worst financial crises ever, is content for short-selling to drive down the asset prices that the government is trying to support."



"The bald fact is that the combination of ignorance, negligence, and ideology that permitted the crisis to happen still prevails and is blocking any remedy."

Obama can announce all the bailouts that he wants. He would be far more productive if he would just change a few rules.

"Either the people in power in Washington and the financial community are total dimwits or they are manipulating an opportunity to redistribute wealth from taxpayers, equity owners and pension funds to the financial sector."

This wouldn't come as a complete surprise.

"These staggering costs are pointless and are to no avail, as not one step has been taken that would alleviate the crisis."

This pretty much sums up the chances for the success of Obama's plan.

"If we add to my simple menu of remedies a ban, punishable by instant death, for short selling any national currency, the world can be rescued from the current crisis without years of suffering, violent upheavals and, perhaps, wars."

" Obama's cabinet and National Economic Council are filled with representatives of the interest groups that caused the problem."

Well, what a huge surprise. He received hundreds of millions in campaign contributions. One might almost suspect that it came from the banks. They're the ones with the hundreds of millions.

"Consumers are now so indebted that they cannot increase their spending by taking on more debt. Thus, whether or not the banks resume lending is beside the point."

GOV is currently trying to get people to borrow. Obama is a tool of the banks. GOV is transferring $ trillions from the taxpayers and their children and grandchildren to the banks.
If people continue to borrow, the banks have new income and all the trillions that were given to them.
Since all our jobs were offshored, we don't have the income to pay our loans. The banks will survive nicely on money taken from the taxpayer. The taxpayer will default and the banks will use the taxpayer's money to seize his property.

The children of the taxpayer will toil for the next 30 years to buy back the property lost by their parents due to the fact that the banks were siting on all the money.

Ahhh, the British Banking System at it's best. If this sounds familiar, maybe you're Irish. At one time, the British owned every square inch of Ireland. The Irish couldn't walk on the land or fish in the stream.

Just imagine what would happen if everyone defaulted on their loan. There isn't any way that the derivatives could be satisfied. The system would have to implode. The implosion would be ugly but, it might be an improvement on debt slavery for your children and grandchildren.
http://www.rense.com/general85/how.htm
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Post by Elderberry » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:04 pm

cowboyangel wrote: Why, instead of doling out trillions of taxpayer dollars through the Fed and Treasury Department, didn’t our government simply nullify these crazy bets that never should have been made — thereby averting the present crisis? It can’t be that contracts are really all that sacrosanct. Credit card companies change terms on us all the time.
Yes, why? That seems to be the question. And in addition, I think all such speculation should be illegal--now that everybody knows the economy of the entire world is negatively effected by 'allowing the markets to regulate themselves.'

Jk
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