Shelter Materials?

Stranger in a StrangeLand · Post by **Stranger in a StrangeLand** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:51 am

Playing around with different structure ideas....not sure if I want a dome or just what, mainly just a good source of day-time shade....and was wondering what has worked best for people in the past. I have access to parachute material, I've seen that mentioned a few times. Basically I just want to know the design/materials for building a really simple to assemble/disassemble structure. Like I said, I have a few ideas, but being a virgin and all I'm not sure how well they'll work, if they work at all! Thanks for any input.

Angry Butterfly · Post by **Angry Butterfly** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:30 pm

Everybody uses domes, but for my money, the pyramids I saw worked better, there was probably about 1 pyramid for every 50 domes i saw, and I waited out a sandstorm in one, and I was really impressed. parachutes were really a pain, the best dome covers i saw were done in multiple panels, and the coolest ones either had alot of room for air, or they lined the inside with mylar to deflect the sun.

Blenderhead · Post by **Blenderhead** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:35 am

looks like you and I are in the same boat (virgins tackling structure-building). Luckily for us, there are a lot of seasoned veterans lurking around eplaya. I'm going to keep mine as simple as possible for now; we have plenty of time to tinker around with ideas and concepts.

One thing I've found really useful are all the photo galleries people have been posting on their websites. Although they might not be the focus of the photographs, you can see a lot of different structures in the backgrounds of many of them. Great sources of inspiration!

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:09 am

we use a tent for shelter, but for a shade structure we use 2 by 4s and rebar.

take an 8 ft 2 by 4, place a base of about 8' by 8', and drill a hole thru the bottom of both. then pound rebar thru the two holes into the ground.

works like a charm.

Blenderhead · Post by **Blenderhead** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:18 pm

alice wrote:we use a tent for shelter, but for a shade structure we use 2 by 4s and rebar.

take an 8 ft 2 by 4, place a base of about 8' by 8', and drill a hole thru the bottom of both. then pound rebar thru the two holes into the ground.

works like a charm.

WOW. Princess... errrr, I mean Alice, I think you might have solved a slight engineering problem I was having with one edge of my structure.

Thanks!

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:44 pm

Blenderhead wrote:
alice wrote:we use a tent for shelter, but for a shade structure we use 2 by 4s and rebar.

take an 8 ft 2 by 4, place a base of about 8' by 8', and drill a hole thru the bottom of both. then pound rebar thru the two holes into the ground.

works like a charm.

WOW. Princess... errrr, I mean Alice, I think you might have solved a slight engineering problem I was having with one edge of my structure.

Thanks!

don'y sweat the name - i answer to "hey bitch" too!

must give credit to schreck for this flash of brilliance - it was his idea.

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:12 pm

I'm working on a shade structure idea and could use some advise. I'm planning on building an elongaged box-like structure covered top and one side with tarp. The box will be 6 1/2 feet wide, 6 1/2 feet tall and 10 feet long. I am planning to use aluminum pipe with Kee Klamp fittings.

Question 1; do I need to use galvinized aluminum?

Question 2; would 1 inch diameter pipe be too small?

Question 3; anyone use Kee Klamps for playa sturctures before?

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rodent (putting the eek in geek)

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:36 pm

1) Galvanized aluminum? No such beast that I know of. Galvanized or plain steel would be about the same. Plain steel rusts, but that won't happen in one week. Galvanized can often be cheaper since it's more widely available and you'll be able to reuse it next year.

2) 1 inch rigid conduit would probably work depending on how the structure is designed. Triangles extra support is good. I'd have to know more about this aluminum pipe you're talking about to make any comments about that.

3) Not I, but I have seen braces that look something like that.

I'd suggest using one big tarp for the side and top, sized a little smaller than the structure. Use ball bungees to hold it to the pipe so it's under tension but still has a little give.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:31 am

Dork has embraced the triangle, as should you. As e.e.cummings observed,"Big square boxes fall apart- the center cannot hold." If you're willing to pay 5 bucks PER JOINT (!) for Kees, just buy a rectangular carport. Kees fasten with a setscrew, which is fine for handrails but shit gets seriously yanked around out there, and I wouldn't trust any two pieces of pipe that weren't BOLTED TOGETHER. (Or SERIOUSLY lashed.) As for tarps, I still hold to the use-more-smaller ethos- In a big gust, air will come through the overlaps instead of stress-loading your whole structure, bending joints and causing general havoc if not boxkiting the whole shootin' match.....

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:51 pm

As to Kee Klamps. I figured it would be cheeper than custom screwtreading the pipe ends and make the structure easier to assemble/disassemble. Also, wouldn't it be better for the structure to collapse rather than "boxkite" down the playa?

As to tarp, I was planning to only tarp the top and direction of the prevailing winds (that one at a 45 degree angle along the guywires). I was playing with the idea of using loose, vertical ribbons of material on the prevailing wind side rather than a sheet. I thought that it would reduce the sail factor but have heard that "ribbon parachutes" are just as effective as regular ones. Technically, I don't need the prev-wind tarp to reach all the way to the ground. I just want it to keep the late morning sun of my tent (since I'll be working graves this year).

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rodent (putting the eek in geek)

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:05 pm

Be careful with galvinized materials... welding it produces some nasty fumes that will make you very sick if you breathe them in. Good ventilation is key. My advice is to stay away form it altogether, unless you have a source for lots of it for free.

Local steel yards could provide you with sch. 40 reject pipe, if they’ll sell to the public. Used for structural applications (and sometimes called structural pipe), but didn’t pass for pressurized use (gas line plumbing, water, etc.). Cheaper than buying plumbing pipe. You can get it in 20' sticks. Hint: Reject pipe is never threaded one the ends.

It costs money (or time) to thread the ends of custom lengths of pipe and threads are not designed for lateral loads. In fact they remove a considerable amount of stock from the pipe, reducing it’s strength. I’m thinking of using a sleeve (12" or so) of slightly bigger pipe as connectors. Slip the smaller pipes, halfway each, inside and connect with bolts through predrilled holes. For that matter, you could weld the connector on one end of the smaller pipe and only have to worry about one bolt... sort of a male/female end for each piece. Someone mentioned PVC with a wood dowel inside of it and bolts. Either way, supporting that joint is going to be key, be it from the inside or out.

Just my thoughts...

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:00 pm

Good point about welding Galvanized.. I did that once (didn't realize it was galvanized) and had what felt like a bad flu for a couple of days. Now if I do weld or even grind it, I only do so OUTSIDE and wearing a good RESPIRATOR. If you're flatenning and drilling the ends it's a good material to work with, though.

As for which ends to tarp.. keep the East side covered almost to the ground. The instant the sun comes over the hills you'll start baking. It takes much less direct light than you'd think. I wouldn't worry about shielding it from the wind too much. If you're trying to sleep in the morning, you'll want some airflow.

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:47 pm

LaChatNoir wrote:Be careful with galvinized materials... welding it produces some nasty fumes

I was going to go with 1 inch aluminum pipe for the lower weight so galvanized wouldn't be an issue but may investigate sch. 40 reject pipe as you mentioned.

LaChatNoir wrote:I’m thinking of using a sleeve (12" or so) of slightly bigger pipe as connectors. Slip the smaller pipes, halfway each, inside and connect with bolts through predrilled holes.

Nice idea but would have to weld 3 sleeves together for the boxes corners and I don't have a rig. That's why I was going with the Kee Klamps (they make some great corner connectors). I've also been playing with the idea of using one, three-way corner connector as the roof peak of a structure, then using 45 degree elbows to my vertical struts. It would be a nice, barrel shaped tent/shade structure with lots of interior volume for the footprint.

Dork wrote:As for which ends to tarp.. keep the East side covered almost to the ground. The instant the sun comes over the hills you'll start baking. It takes much less direct light than you'd think. I wouldn't worry about shielding it from the wind too much. If you're trying to sleep in the morning, you'll want some airflow.

Thanks for the tip but I don't think it would be needed. I get off grave yard shift an hour or two *after* the sun comes up and usually don't get to sleep for another hour or two after that. I'm mainly just wanting to shield against the late morning/noon sun. I could probably get away without a prev-wind tarp if I wanted even more simplicity.

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rodent (putting the eek in geek)

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:48 pm

LaChatNoir wrote:Be careful with galvinized materials... welding it produces some nasty fumes

I was going to go with 1 inch aluminum pipe for the lower weight so galvanized wouldn't be an issue but may investigate sch. 40 reject pipe as you mentioned.

LaChatNoir wrote:I’m thinking of using a sleeve (12" or so) of slightly bigger pipe as connectors. Slip the smaller pipes, halfway each, inside and connect with bolts through predrilled holes.

Nice idea but would have to weld 3 sleeves together for the boxes corners and I don't have a rig. That's why I was going with the Kee Klamps (they make some great corner connectors). I've also been playing with the idea of using one, three-way corner connector as the roof peak of a structure, then using 45 degree elbows to my vertical struts. It would be a nice, barrel shaped tent/shade structure with lots of interior volume for the footprint.

Dork wrote:As for which ends to tarp.. keep the East side covered almost to the ground. The instant the sun comes over the hills you'll start baking. It takes much less direct light than you'd think. I wouldn't worry about shielding it from the wind too much. If you're trying to sleep in the morning, you'll want some airflow.

Thanks for the tip but I don't think it would be needed. I get off grave yard shift an hour or two *after* the sun comes up and usually don't get to sleep for another hour or two after that. I'm mainly just wanting to shield against the late morning/noon sun. I could probably get away without a prev-wind tarp if I wanted even more simplicity.

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rodent (putting the eek in geek)

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:54 pm

moderators, could you delete this post, and the post two above this one. I thought I could edit the original post by backing up to the edit page, then have enough time to delete the first post... but it didn't work.

thanks in advance... you guys'n'gals ROCK!!!

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rodent (putting the eek in geek)

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:29 pm

Bad news, dear. There are no moderators as such. Try a PM to admin.
Or, you know, live with the Zen of a poorly formatted post followed by a
perfect one.

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:16 pm

Nah... I'll just repost (since we're on a new page now) and pretend nothing happened.

LaChatNoir wrote:Be careful with galvinized materials... welding it produces some nasty fumes

I was going to go with 1 inch aluminum pipe for the lower weight so galvanized wouldn't be an issue but may investigate sch. 40 reject pipe as you mentioned.

LaChatNoir wrote:I’m thinking of using a sleeve (12" or so) of slightly bigger pipe as connectors. Slip the smaller pipes, halfway each, inside and connect with bolts through predrilled holes.

Nice idea but would have to weld 3 sleeves together for the boxes corners and I don't have a rig. That's why I was going with the Kee Klamps (they make some great corner connectors). I've also been playing with the idea of using one, three-way corner connector as the roof peak of a structure, then using 45 degree elbows to my vertical struts. It would be a nice, barrel shaped tent/shade structure with lots of interior volume for the footprint.

Dork wrote:As for which ends to tarp.. keep the East side covered almost to the ground. The instant the sun comes over the hills you'll start baking. It takes much less direct light than you'd think. I wouldn't worry about shielding it from the wind too much. If you're trying to sleep in the morning, you'll want some airflow.

Thanks for the tip but I don't think it would be needed. I get off grave yard shift an hour or two *after* the sun comes up and usually don't get to sleep for another hour or two after that. I'm mainly just wanting to shield against the late morning/noon sun. I could probably get away without a prev-wind tarp if I wanted even more simplicity.

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rodent (putting the eek in geek)

RouseMouse · Post by **RouseMouse** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:49 pm

Our 2002 shade was a 20 x 30 tarp held over 3 (use 4or5) bowed conduit ribs each made with 3 10' sticks of conduit held with standard connectors with cross bars lashed with bailing wire to them at each connector and center of each span making a quansit hut frame for the tarp to be held over and lashed to.
the tarp was also then trapped between two boards (nail the 1x2s together with the tarp between them) on each 20' end and the boards staked down with candy cane rebar stakes making a 20' x 20'- shelter.
we used 1/2 inch conduit , but lashed the center to my truck rack. If you use 3/4 or 1" you'd want to pre bow it ( about a foot and a half to 2 foot deflection over the length depending on the width and hight of the tent you want ) , but it would be more secure on it's own. our current structure is bigger and uses 1/2" conduit.

I'd avoid the blue tarps though, they make you feel funny somehow.

Bring extra conduit and connectors
we're up to about 120 sticks for our camp now and I like to bring an extra bundle for friends ..see mid page for quansit
http://tda3.com/pics/bman02/bman2.html
for current shade structure(s )
http://tda3.com/pics/bman03/bman2003/bman03a.html

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:46 pm

I use 1-1/2 in. sched. 40 aluminum pipe, w/ scaffold clamps, both found at a scrap yard.

For small shade, any sort of 10-ft+ sticks could be lashed together tripod-wise w/ rope or pieces cut from truck innertubes -- multiple tripods for an extended structure & to support rope or x-members. Stake the bottoms of the tripods so they don't take off, and run rope between the stakes to tie off tarpage.

dalmos · Post by **dalmos** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:14 am

Anybody have any experience with mesh shade cloth? Avaliable in several densities it is listed to keep out up to 90% of UV light. My campmate says it won't work and we'll toast.

Alpha · Post by **Alpha** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:24 am

dalmos wrote:Anybody have any experience with mesh shade cloth? Avaliable in several densities it is listed to keep out up to 90% of UV light. My campmate says it won't work and we'll toast.

I've never tried it on the playa but my experience in my back yard (which has been known to hit 110 in August) is that one layer of shade cloth won't do it for you. Maybe two layers, separated by 6 - 12 inches?

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:04 am

Anybody have any experience with mesh shade cloth? Avaliable in several densities it is listed to keep out up to 90% of UV light.

My camp has a type of 90% mesh tarp and it worked extremely well. It packed down small and light, let some wind through, kept the sun out, and held solid through the whole week. I was told it was basically a white dumptruck tarp (though I thought those were usually black..) that was several layers thick to get to 90%. Not sure where he got it other than "A tarp guy in Oakland"

Do you have any links to the type you're looking at? I'm sure there are good ones and bad ones.

polzicons · Post by **polzicons** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:01 pm

Rodent, sounds like you know your options! About the diameter of your conduit, make sure your rebar strait stakes fit snugly inside. ie: 3/4" rebar with 1" conduit. Drive the rebar into playa with 1' exposed, bang conduit leg-pole over exposed rebar, rock solid! I found corner connectors (Y's, T's, complex multi-angles, etc) for about $3 each at flea market, in 2 sizes for diff diameter conduit. They fit snug, bolt down tight, (can be covered with duct tape,too) and saved me the hassle of fabricating my own. Got a 24' x 30' heavy duty white tarp and 10 misc connectors for under $70 after haggling...
But that's just me. -POL

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:33 am

Dork wrote:
Anybody have any experience with mesh shade cloth? Avaliable in several densities it is listed to keep out up to 90% of UV light.

I was told it was basically a white dumptruck tarp (though I thought those were usually black..) that was several layers thick to get to 90%. Not sure where he got it other than "A tarp guy in Oakland"

quote]
....Dumptruck tarp is heavy stuff! It allows some air to pass through, but won't block QUITE enough sun in one layer to be ideal for on-playa....I use them to hold down lighter tarps against flapping, or as "privacy screen". You can use it like theater scrim, in other words.

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:02 am

Though we're all about to head out, I thought this thread was worth resurrecting.

I just received a grant from the "Dad Foundation" so I get to try and build my shade structure. I'll try and create a photo journal and post the url. Probably won't be usefull this year but may be helpfull for folks next year.

The plan: 5 eight fool long pipes. Two sets of pipes arranged in an inverted "V" with one pipe connecting the peaks. I'm going to try and use 2 Kee Klamps as the connecters.

A sketch of the sturctue can be found at http://www.tribe.net/tribe/servlet/temp ... 6f05f24674

This is just intended to be a personal structure, just for little ol' me and my little ol' tent.

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rodent (putting the eek in geek)

Shelter Materials?

Shelter Materials?

Howdy stranger!

conduit quansit hut , no weilding

use of shade cloth

Re: use of shade cloth