Gesellschaft as an evolutionary concept.

kk · Post by kk » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:57 am

The 2009 theme of evolution bored me at first, then I started thinking about the different aspects of evolution. Gesellschaft and social evolution kept coming to mind. A group of like-minded people is brainstorming on how to manifest the concept and ideals of gesellschaft on the playa, in our art and gifting? By teaching about it and raising consciousness? I keep thinking about how the media is the message.

What, if any, are your thoughts on the state of social evolution in our society and culture? How would you communicate this on the playa?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:05 am

I"m not very familiar with Gesellschaft, but, is it not different than "like minded"?
I thought it was an external influence driven association. Like common language, religion, ethnicity, location, abilities, etc, etc..........

Just wondering if I understand your reference.

kk · Post by kk » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:30 am

[quote]Gesellschaft (often translated as society or civil society or 'association') describes associations in which, for the individual, the larger association never takes on more importance than individual self interest, and lack the same level of shared mores. Gesellschaft is maintained through individuals acting in their own self interest. A modern business is a good example of Gesellschaft, the workers, managers, and owners may have very little in terms of shared orientations or beliefs, they may not care deeply for the product they are making, but it is in all their self interest to come to work to make money, and thus the business continues. Unlike Gemeinschaften, Gesellschaften emphasize secondary relationships rather than familial or community ties, and there is generally less individual loyalty to society.[/quote]

Righto. That's exactly where we're going with it. I'd like to focus on the part that emphasizes secondary relationships rather than familial or community ties and the lack of individual loyalty to society.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:43 am

interesting..........
what's your concept?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:36 pm

kk wrote: Righto. That's exactly where we're going with it. I'd like to focus on the part that emphasizes secondary relationships rather than familial or community ties and the lack of individual loyalty to society.

Wait, is that <I>?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:38 pm

Fuck, something's wrong.

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:39 pm

Thanks for the thread, but I'm not clear on this. I just love the way german philosophers could cram so much into a single word. Do you want to celebrate that self interest in effect drives and binds the community? meaning that community is really just a byproduct, or a means to an end for the individual? to allow us to survive to reproductive age, make a living, feed oursleves? Is this a truth hurts sort of thing? not getting much of a warm fuzzy from this idea... but maybe I misunderstand. I am not under pure selection pressures at Burning man or in my experience of the world (and I consider myself lucky for this) The playa is an expansive space for joy and magic. Other things can blossom there surely, and the reasons can go beyond individual benefit. this gesellschaft sort of sticks to the line that it is only the sum of the parts?

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:47 pm

McLuhan describes the "content" of a medium as a juicy piece of meat carried by the burglar to distract the watchdog of the mind.

penguin · Post by **penguin** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:25 pm

I think TÃ¶nnies had one thing right -- social evolution is off-track

For the most part western societies used to be mostly Gemeinschaft (until fairly recently in a historical sense) and then moved mostly towards Gesellschaft - but didn't stop there. I think it's gone beyond that to something different. It's not about the good of the individual or the good of the group -- it's about how the individual thinks the group perceives them. People seem to be more concerned about appearances than they are about how destructive to themselves or the rest of society their actions might be.

Look at the financial mess -- do you think the people who pushed CDSs were really trying to make money for their companies or themselves -- do you think they were worried about what would happen to anyone (other than themselves) when everything came tumbling down? No, they just wanted to look "cool" while the going was good.

Or look at pollution/global warming; endangered species, nuclear testing, etc., etc. It's all about "me" -- not "us" anymore.

I think showing how things have evolved too far, and trying to show a path back would be cool. I think just the act of gifting, of doing art (irregardless of what is gifted/done) is a move in the right direction -- to me Burning Man is a synergy of Gesellschaft and Gemeinschaft -- everyone is a family w/o shared orientations of beliefs -- radical self-reliance while doing for the common good, etc.