La Contessa lawsuit....

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
User avatar
pizzamancer
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:56 pm
Burning Since: 2008

Re: all speculation

Post by pizzamancer » Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:18 pm

swampdog wrote:It's all in the details. None of which we have.
I have been following this and had to jump in. I think we all agree that it is a sad situation. Poor communication between people who were not given the benefit of the doubt. Irresponsible use of art (speeding on the playa by the owners and burning it on the part of the land owner).

But seriously guys? What can a law suit accomplish? No amount of law suits are going to get the La Contessa back. They only serve to enrich the lawyers involved in the case, a worse scenario for everyone.

Gift the boat to the guy who burned it, and leave it as a good memory.
Image

Barbie
Posts: 684
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:03 pm
Location: SURF CAPITAL OF THE WORLD HALEIWA HI

Post by Barbie » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:18 pm

Yea- and they should have Let PAUL go ALso...


One was done as a Prank and the other out of Malice ~ Arson IS Arson

And the Ship may have been wood-BUT Buses aren't made of WOOD!!!

And If the Cops in the area wouldn't do anything - WHAT else are you gonna DO BUT SUE?!

I Thought La Contessa was an Amazing Art Car and I LOVED HER!!!

She is Missed on the Playa!!!!!!!!
If I were to wish ANYTHING I'd wish I were ME!!

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 30403
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Post by ygmir » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:51 pm

Barbie wrote:Yea- and they should have Let PAUL go ALso...


One was done as a Prank and the other out of Malice ~ Arson IS Arson

And the Ship may have been wood-BUT Buses aren't made of WOOD!!!

And If the Cops in the area wouldn't do anything - WHAT else are you gonna DO BUT SUE?!

I Thought La Contessa was an Amazing Art Car and I LOVED HER!!!

She is Missed on the Playa!!!!!!!!
didn't Johnny Cash sing about this?
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
mdmf007
Moderator
Posts: 5340
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:32 pm
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: ESD
Location: my computer

Re: all speculation

Post by mdmf007 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:09 pm

pizzamancer wrote:
swampdog wrote:
But seriously guys? What can a law suit accomplish? No amount of law suits are going to get the La Contessa back. They only serve to enrich the lawyers involved in the case, a worse scenario for everyone.
um, that is the purpose of a lawsuit - to be made whole again. If they are awarded the cash - then they could build the Contessa again, so I guess it could be said that a certain amount of money WOULD bring Contessa back - not that they would be under any obligation to do so.

My opinion? everyone else in the US sues for everything - so why not. This case actually has more merit than a lot of cases I have seen.

User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14976
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Camp Kelly
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Post by Elderberry » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:22 pm

Assuming the owner's of La Contessa aren't flakes, then I agree that the lawsuit, from what I know from this thread and related links, is probably warranted.

JK
Elderberry

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

User avatar
pizzamancer
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:56 pm
Burning Since: 2008

Re: all speculation

Post by pizzamancer » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:37 pm

mdmf007 wrote:um, that is the purpose of a lawsuit - to be made whole again. If they are awarded the cash - then they could build the Contessa again
Do you really think that hick farmer has 900k just laying around on the field? Even if they win, does anyone here think they will collect?

Law suits don't make people whole, the generally tend to do the opposite. Getting over it, getting new grants, and fund raising is a much faster and guaranteed strategy to get La Contessa II built than this ill planned law suit (They did it once already to get it built the first time).

Completely different situation from Paul the arsonist. Apples and oranges.
Image

little.lemonade
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:19 am

Post by little.lemonade » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:55 pm

google the guy. he's one of the richest men in nevada.

User avatar
pizzamancer
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:56 pm
Burning Since: 2008

Post by pizzamancer » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:47 am

little.lemonade wrote:google the guy. he's one of the richest men in nevada.
Ahhh so the real reason comes out.
Image

dragonfly Jafe
Posts: 1877
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:08 am
Location: the Oregon Trail

Re: all speculation

Post by dragonfly Jafe » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:24 am

pizzamancer wrote:...Do you really think that hick farmer has 900k just laying around on the field? Even if they win, does anyone here think they will collect?
....after all, a mob in bed sheets with pitchforks, torches, shotguns, and ropes would be so much more....americana performance art!

maybe in a perfect world everyone could just get along (maybe they would also fart rose perfume) but in the real world, I think I prefer people use the legal system for disputes when possible, thank you very much. Presumably the Judge will sort out the facts (if it even gets to court, that is)
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14976
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Camp Kelly
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Post by Elderberry » Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:22 pm

Here's an interesting link http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... wanted=all

It seems Mike Stewart has been feuding with BM for a long time.

Also a search for "Mike Stert" AND "Oriental Farms" brings up some interesting stories related to the entire BM event and property they (BM) use for staging the event. http://tinyurl.com/bg9vta

JK
Elderberry

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

User avatar
Bob
Posts: 6747
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: Royaneh
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Post by Bob » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:23 am

Wow. You sure can google!

The Contessa was a hunk of junk that Burning Man evicted from their own property. I'm surprised the org wasn't named in the lawsuit.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

User avatar
Sensei
Posts: 2878
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:56 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Sensei » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:34 am

But she was our hunk of junk, dammit!

User avatar
mdmf007
Moderator
Posts: 5340
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:32 pm
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: ESD
Location: my computer

Re: all speculation

Post by mdmf007 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:10 am

pizzamancer wrote:
mdmf007 wrote:um, that is the purpose of a lawsuit - to be made whole again. If they are awarded the cash - then they could build the Contessa again
Do you really think that hick farmer has 900k just laying around on the field? Even if they win, does anyone here think they will collect?

Law suits don't make people whole, the generally tend to do the opposite. Getting over it, getting new grants, and fund raising is a much faster and guaranteed strategy to get La Contessa II built than this ill planned law suit (They did it once already to get it built the first time).

Completely different situation from Paul the arsonist. Apples and oranges.
Yes - I know he has the money, he alkso has a commercial farm. Even if he cant pay the entire debt you have a right to compensation in the US. Sometimes merely the judgment of being found right is vindication enough for some.

SO yes IMO sue if you feel strong enough. and you CAN be made whole again. I have sued and been sued professionally sometimes I win, sometimes not.

Barbie
Posts: 684
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:03 pm
Location: SURF CAPITAL OF THE WORLD HALEIWA HI

Post by Barbie » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:16 pm

She WAS our piece of JUNK !! She wasn't anymore of a piece of junk than A LOT of stuff out THERE! ANd I LOVED HER~ If anyone would have asked; I would have helped rebuild her... ANd I'am SUPerrrr Dupeerrrrrr Sssssssaaaaaaddddddd she is GONE. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

I loved seeing her from a distance come out of the DUST !!!! I never forgot the first time I saw the La Contessa - it was my virgin year; and EvErythING was SOOOOOO incredible!! BUT AHHHHHHH the La Contessa was the only thing I truly rubbed my eyes and thought JUSt for an moment IS that a ghost ship in our LAKE???? Frickkkkkkkinngggggg AMmmmmmaaaaaaaaazzzzzziiiingggggg I love SHips!!! Grew up in Seattle on Salmon Purse Sein boats and always thought I WAS a PIRATE !!!! SOoo then I moved tO HAwaii and Sailed the Hawaiian waters on a 58 foot Ketch, The Elan a Pirate Ship!!!! SOOOOooooo TO ME the La Contessa was the COOLEST THING EVER!!!!!!

Thank You EVERYONE who BUilt HER! I truly enjoyed HER! and I'm sorry she is gone - and you have to go the extent to get lawyers.

I HOPE that YOu will consider building US another Ship of some sort.
I will Help! MAybe we could do a ViKing WaR ship OR A 21 century BAttleSHip!
If I were to wish ANYTHING I'd wish I were ME!!

DoriumLux
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:59 pm

Post by DoriumLux » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:06 am

"Stewart is one of the biggest property owners in the region. In addition to possessing land and water rights that would be lucrative in any development project, he owns Orient Farms, Empire Farms, and a four-megawatt geothermal power plant."

http://www.sfbg.com/entry.php?entry_id=2710

draco880
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:45 pm
Contact:

Post by draco880 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:19 am

For what it's worth, every lawsuit has a lot more of a story than can comfortably fit into a blurb on a news site. Some which sound warranted are in fact completely spurious when you learn the details, whereas some which sound stupid actually make a ton of sense once you get into it. The famous McDonald's coffee lawsuit is a good example. It sounds retarded, until you learn that the franchises were ordered to keep their coffee at a scalding temperature, even though they knew it was burning people. Then there's the matter of third-degree burns on your crotch...
Also, what the hell would you want the police to do, after the fact? It is a civil matter and there's no reason for them to be involved. In fact, there are a lot of very good reasons for them not to be involved. I personally relish the fact that the police won't come ask me questions unless there's some sort of criminal matter they're investigating.

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40312
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:54 pm

draco880 wrote: Then there's the matter of third-degree burns on your crotch...
Indeed. After a lifetime of dealing with hot liquid, I"m not sure I could get out of my pants in 10 seconds if it became necessary.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 30403
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Post by ygmir » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:27 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
draco880 wrote: Then there's the matter of third-degree burns on your crotch...
Indeed. After a lifetime of dealing with hot liquid, I"m not sure I could get out of my pants in 10 seconds if it became necessary.
obviously, you've never been a teenage boy...........
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
Posts: 20301
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:23 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art
Location: Wild, Wild West

Post by AntiM » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:19 am

draco880 wrote:For what it's worth, every lawsuit has a lot more of a story than can comfortably fit into a blurb on a news site. Some which sound warranted are in fact completely spurious when you learn the details, whereas some which sound stupid actually make a ton of sense once you get into it. The famous McDonald's coffee lawsuit is a good example. It sounds retarded, until you learn that the franchises were ordered to keep their coffee at a scalding temperature, even though they knew it was burning people. Then there's the matter of third-degree burns on your crotch...
Also, what the hell would you want the police to do, after the fact? It is a civil matter and there's no reason for them to be involved. In fact, there are a lot of very good reasons for them not to be involved. I personally relish the fact that the police won't come ask me questions unless there's some sort of criminal matter they're investigating.
The employees had microwaved the coffee because the rest of the order was taking so long, super-heating the liquid. The woman was an elderly lady wearing polyester pants which melted to her thighs.

draco880
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:45 pm
Contact:

Post by draco880 » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:55 pm

The case is Liebeck v. McDonald's, and the following tidbits are from the Wikipedia article. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v. ... estaurants[/url]

"Liebeck was wearing cotton sweatpants; they absorbed the coffee and held it against her skin as she sat in the puddle of hot liquid for over 90 seconds, scalding her thighs, buttocks, and groin.[8] Liebeck was taken to the hospital, where it was determined that she had suffered third-degree burns on six percent of her skin and lesser burns over sixteen percent.[9] She remained in the hospital for eight days while she underwent skin grafting. Two years of treatment followed."

"During the case, Liebeck's attorneys discovered that McDonald's required franchises to serve coffee at 180–190 °F (82–88 °C). At that temperature, the coffee would cause a third-degree burn in two to seven seconds."

"Other documents obtained from McDonald's showed that from 1982 to 1992 the company had received more than 700 reports of people burned by McDonald's coffee to varying degrees of severity, and had settled claims arising from scalding injuries for more than $500,000.[4] McDonald's quality control manager, Christopher Appleton, testified that this number of injuries was insufficient to cause the company to evaluate its practices. He argued that all foods hotter than 130 °F (54 °C) constituted a burn hazard, and that restaurants had more pressing dangers to warn about."

Unfortunately discussing lawsuits in the public sphere is basically a big game of telephone. As far as the lawsuit in question goes, it'd be nice to see a copy of the complaint, but I suspect that they'll probably settle.

klondike_bar
Posts: 495
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:56 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Post by klondike_bar » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:33 pm

wow, even more so then.... If you cant get out of a pair of sweatpants in 90 seconds, theres a problem.

User avatar
Bob
Posts: 6747
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: Royaneh
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Post by Bob » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:08 pm

So... the Contessa overstays its welcome on the org's (leased) property, the org evicts the raggedy piece of shit, and it gets salvaged for scrap metal on the Grants' (leased) property.

It's a Green win-win!

Why do you people hate the environment?
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40312
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:26 am

klondike_bar wrote:wow, even more so then.... If you cant get out of a pair of sweatpants in 90 seconds, theres a problem.
Um. LIke being old, perhaps? And in a car? And completely mentally unprepared because you've never been introduced to a liquid that hot, not even when you worked in that foundry as a Rosie in WWII? And even when you were a Rosie, you weren't the kind who took off her clothes in public?
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
Posts: 20301
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:23 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art
Location: Wild, Wild West

Post by AntiM » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:49 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
klondike_bar wrote:wow, even more so then.... If you cant get out of a pair of sweatpants in 90 seconds, theres a problem.
Um. LIke being old, perhaps? And in a car? And completely mentally unprepared because you've never been introduced to a liquid that hot, not even when you worked in that foundry as a Rosie in WWII? And even when you were a Rosie, you weren't the kind who took off her clothes in public?
I concur. K-Bar, write this down somewhere and read it when you are well over fifty.

User avatar
djnormanj
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:28 pm
Location: Here, there, and back again...
Contact:

Post by djnormanj » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:11 pm

Sooo glad I got to take that last sail across the playa on La Contessa back in 2005 before her ashes were returned to the earth. Even with all her problems, there was nothing like seeing that shadowy figure sailing up outta' the playa dust!
~Norm

"I used to have a handle on life, then it broke!"

User avatar
Igneouss
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:27 am
Burning Since: 2009
Location: virginia

Post by Igneouss » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:33 am

I haven't even attended burning man (this'll be my virgin year) but this story makes me sad. Some of the photos of La Contessa are staggering. It was also clearly the epitome of playful/bizzar/fun/unexpected/amazingly creative art that (IMO) defines BM.

If enough Eastcosters volunteered to help build and transport a replacement, I would agree to manage the operation.

User avatar
Simon of the Playa
Posts: 22828
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins
Location: BRC, Nevada.

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:21 pm

All Simons must blindly support other Simons.

it's part of the deal.


fuck with one simon and you fuck with us all.
Frida Be You & Me

User avatar
Sham
Moderator
Posts: 8951
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:10 am
Location: The hidden mythical place.....

Post by Sham » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:47 pm

Simon says, "don't fuck with Simons"!

spectabillis
Posts: 3527
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:07 pm
Burning Since: 2022
Location: black rock city

Post by spectabillis » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:02 pm

im curious to verify this, but isnt the reason it was put on that property is that no one wanted to take possession of it? and this was after it was evicted off the org's ranch because it was just left there... nobody wanted to take responsibility for it then, either?

ed: ok, whoa, i just read that they are seeking $900,000 in damages. my point is, if it was that valuable, then why didnt someone take care of it, or at least leave simple contact information after dumping it on someones random property?

i am not saying that makes it ok to simply torch it, for whatever reason, because its not. just saying the people seeking damages dont seem the most responsible, and well... rather stupid.

User avatar
Igneouss
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:27 am
Burning Since: 2009
Location: virginia

Post by Igneouss » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:00 pm

From what I've read the La Contessa was parked on friendly property and welcomed by the ranch owner. Ranch owner was friendly toward BM. It was all good. La Contessa was used for other playa events as well as BM (when it was allowed).

Then ranch changed hands. New owner allowed old owner to stay on as tenent. La Contessa folks believed all was well. But old owner had unrelated problems and moved to town.

New owner (long a hater of BM, well documented) made no attempt to contact anyone to request removal. He simply burned it to the ground.

900,000 is the estimate of what it would cost to PAY to have it re-built. Replacement cost in legal terms.

It was not dumped on random property. It was not abandoned. Regular contact was maintained with original property owner. Unrelated events broke the lines of communication long enough for the evil to occur.

I'm sure others can flesh out my story and correct any errors.

sad thing. bad people.
spectabillis wrote:im curious to verify this, but isnt the reason it was put on that property is that no one wanted to take possession of it? and this was after it was evicted off the org's ranch because it was just left there... nobody wanted to take responsibility for it then, either?

ed: ok, whoa, i just read that they are seeking $900,000 in damages. my point is, if it was that valuable, then why didnt someone take care of it, or at least leave simple contact information after dumping it on someones random property?

i am not saying that makes it ok to simply torch it, for whatever reason, because its not. just saying the people seeking damages dont seem the most responsible, and well... rather stupid.

Post Reply

Return to “Stories”