On the Land

[Guest]

I lay in bed last night reading "Ceremony" by Leslie Marmon Silko, listening to the cacaphony of frogs out by the pond. A loon was there the other night. A lion came by the horse corral a few nights ago, only his tracks in the dust showed after the horses woke me. I am still formulating this... A few lines in the book gave me some insight to my problem with BM. Burning man and the people who attend are on the land but not of it. They use it without understanding the rythyms, the cycles of the land. The land can be inclusive of you, you can be inclusive of the land, but it takes time, it takes silence.

[stuart]

Black Rock Ric, I have figured out what your issue is. While you have witnessed BM, you are not of BM. You view it without understanding the rythyms, the cycles of BM. The Man can be inclusive of you, you can be inclusive of The Man, but it takes time, it takes cacophany.

[Alpha]

Burning man and the people who attend are on the land but not of it.

Speak for yourself, City Boy. I suspect many of us are more in tune with the divine mother than some cowboy wannabe. One beautiful example:




Stand still. The trees ahead and bushes beside you
Are not lost. Wherever you are is called Here,
And you must treat it as a powerful stranger,
Must ask permission to know it and be known.
The forest breathes. Listen. It answers,
I have made this place around you,
If you leave it you may come back again, saying Here.

No two trees are the same to Raven.
No two branches are the same to Wren.
If what a tree or a bush does is lost on you,
You are surely lost. Stand still. The forest knows
Where you are. You must let it find you.

[Guest]

Alpha, divine mother? What the hell is that?

Your poem isn't bad,, structure your rythyms, check your syllable counts, and ground it. It floats three feet off the ground. One of the problems with begining poets is the floating nature of the poetry.. While it is true that poetry should be distilled emotion, for it to connect with others. it needs to be grounded, concretized... It should be easy to do since you have picked a naturalist motive. Read some Jeffers. Visualize your audience, make sure they understand the metaphors.. Too much beginning poetry is like masturbation, best kept to oneself.

[blyslv]

One of the problems with begining conflict junkies is the floating nature of the conflict.. While it is true that conflict should be distilled emotion, for it to connect with others. it needs to be grounded, concretized... It should be easy to do since you have picked a naturalist motive. Read some Gospel. Visualize your audience, make sure they understand the metaphors.. Too much beginning conflict is like masturbation, best kept to oneself.

[Guest]

Stand still. The trees ahead and bushes beside you are not lost.
Where you are is called Here, [?called? doesn?t work? it is the only hard consonant in the line.,,, even in the whole first stanza]
And you must treat it as a powerful stranger, Must ask permission to know it and be known. [?It doesn?t work, state what ?it is, why should you ask permission? Why would something in the forest be a stranger?]
The forest breathes. Listen. It answers, [ again ?It? needs to be stated}

I have made this place around you, [who is ?I? ground this, identify this, what place? Here?]

If you leave it you may come back again, saying Here. [ same ?it] problem], No two trees are the same to Raven. No two branches are the same to Wren. If what a tree or a bush does is lost on you, You are surely lost. [ Do believe this? You know what every tree and bush does?] Stand still. The forest knows Where you are. You must let it find you. [ Does the forest care? Why or why not? ]

[These sorts of romantic ethereal poems usually have meaning for the writer, but usually not to others.]


Compare yours to this simple poem;
I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox

and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast

Forgive me
they were delicious
so sweet
and so cold

William Carlos Williams

Grounded, narrative, striking.

[ramen]

I summarize Ric:

- burners have no feel for the land they temporarily inhabit aka the playa
- they damage it by their presence in such great numbers
- they are deranged city dwellers with no country sensibility or connection to the land
- country people like Ric have a greater appreciation for their environment and are in some sense a morally and ethically wiser population

I don't see Ric examining his impact on the land. Burners come and go, but Ric stays there day after day shooting lions, tramping through pristine wilderness with his enslaved horses and llamas.

He probably pollutes groundwater with his greywater and increases global warming with frequent trips to Costco and other dens of iniquity (also known as cities) in order to replenish his supplies.

Ric is basically a city creature who lives in the country, complete with structures, gasoline, electricity, and all the comforts of the big city exported to the wilderness, including the inevitable pollution and environmental degradation left in his zone of habitation.

I think the land would be better off without you Ric.

[Bob]

It, and you, are just a fucking, camping, trip.

[Guest]

What an intelligent guy [I summarize Ric:

- burners have no feel for the land they temporarily inhabit aka the playa
- they damage it by their presence in such great numbers
- they are deranged city dwellers with no country sensibility or connection to the land
- country people like Ric have a greater appreciation for their environment and are in some sense a morally and ethically wiser population ]

That is it almost exactly, except, better looking, more attractive to women, much more intelligent. And likely can shoot much better.[/quote]

[Alpha]

You're welcome to criticize the poem but don't pass it off as amateurish... you'll have to take that up with the Native American elder who related the story that has been handed down through generations, and David Wagoner (chair of poetry at the University of Washington) who rendered it into modern English.

[ramen]

What an intelligent guy [I summarize Ric:

That is it almost exactly, except, better looking, more attractive to women, much more intelligent. And likely can shoot much better.

[/quote]

I think you forgot ornery, intolerant, and inbred.

[Guest]

Ornery and intolerant works,, inbred doesn't . even though mama is from Carolina.. Made a good chili last night,, dried beans, dried corn, from the garden harvested last fall, slow elk harvested three weeks ago. Warm night didn't need a fire. Had to close the windows, the frogs make so much noise, I need an alligator. Family sat around round robin reading from a couple of Byrd Baylor's books. I am most of the way through Herodotus and Ceremony, read the Gospels some years ago but they conflicted with Josephus of Aramatheus original Aramaic texts... Stunted life? Mebbe,, wannabe cowboy? Huh, we don't have cowboys in Nevada, we have Buckaroos.. besides, how do you think I get the slow elk?

[Guest]

Alpha two points: Are you aware that the origin of the word Cowboy has nothing to do with Cows or boys? (being ornery and intelligent here)

Poems, stories, legends and fables of North American Indians; consider this, "The Native Americans are sitting around the campfire on a warm summer evening passing the sweet Tokay,, NA#1, Another gawddanged whitey anthropologist is coming, wants to hear authentic indian poetry and fables and stuff."

NA#2, "I hate it when they do that, they want our secrets so they can take our power,, Ok guys put your heads into it, lets think up some more romantic naturalist spiritual crap they will think is so profound.,, Pass the Tokay please.."

The ancient shaman that still lives the old way, back in the hills above our home told me this is how many of the Indian stories, poems, fables, legends, got to the white man. He is an interesting guy, you should hear his take on BM'ers

Funny story, the great speech that Chief Seattle spoke when the whiteys took his land, the speech that is reprinted in calendars and Sierra Club stuff, starts out;
(The Great Chief in Washington sends word that wishes to buy our land. The Great Chief also sends us words of friendship and goodwill. This is kind of him, since we know he has little need of our friendship in return. But we will consider your offer. For we know that if we do not sell, the white man may come with guns and take our land. How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us.) Was not written by an indian, but was written by a whitey Ted Perry as part of a movie script...

[Zephryus]

Could you cite that?

[Guest]

www.synaptic.bc.ca/ejournal/wslibrry.htm

[Alpha]

I never claimed that the poem "Lost" exemplified the Native American connection to the land -- it has meaning to me and that's what matters. I DID say that you shouldn't critique it as amateurish, given that it was written by the chief poet of UW. In my opinion anyone is welcome to their own opinion of art, however it would be foolish to belittle the work of a recognized artist as amateurish*.

*NB - you never used the word amateurish but that was the feeling I got when reading your critique of what you thought was my poem. I also think it's rather arrogant to be so quick to provide your criticism of someone else's work.

[Guest]

Alpha among my varied careers, I have taught writing classes.

[DVD Burner]

oh no! the Dr. thing.........

[Bob]

Alpha among my varied careers, I have taught writing classes.

Hope you told them the Chief Seattle "speech" was a fabrication.

[Alpha]

Alpha among my varied careers, I have taught writing classes.

I think that's fabulous. For what institution? Here's a short history on Wagoner... his credentials don't preclude anyone's right to critique his work, but it certainly puts the burden on said critics to be accomplished in the field, or else risk looking like fools.

DAVID WAGONER, an Ohio native who grew up in Whiting, Indiana, has lived and worked near Seattle, Washington, since 1954. The 1994 winner of Poetry's Levinson Prize and the 1991 winner of the Ruth Lilly Prize, he has also published ten novels, including The Escape Artist, made into a movie by Francis Ford Coppola in 1982. Nominated for the American Book Award in Poetry and Twice for the National Book Award in Poetry, he is a chancellor of the Academy of American Poets. Wagoner teaches at the University of Washington and is editor of Poetry Northwest.

[Simply Joel]

It, and you, are just a fucking, camping, trip.

An observation often overlooked.

[Guest]

Taught at the Vacaville home for the criminal insane and I told them that I wrote Chief Seattle's speech and the the white people would steal their souls if they let them take pictures, of course.. And if they did not behave they had to go to Burning Man.

[Guest]

He sounds good, I should talk to him about rhythm, Indian poetry was sing song, rhythmic,, sung or chanted.. easier to remember in a society without written language.

[stuart]

Alpha, you gave me such a big smile with your beautiful set-up. Captain Egocentrism fell for it like a champ. I especially loved the backpedalling when the veil was lifted. Absolutely beautiful.

[stuart]

oh, just a daily reminder to all that BRR is a self professed liar.

[Guest]

Stuart, please explain where I back pedaled.. Was it by not stating where what institution I taught writing at? It that is it, I did not answer as the real set up was going to be a value judgement of the "institution" If I state Stanford would not that create a different picture than if I said Gerlach Elementary? Where I taught is irrelevant... Actually posting that I taught writing is irrelevant,, should not have posted it.. But Bad poetry is not irrelevant not matter the credentials of the writer. You should get down on your knees and pray thanking the lord I don't put any of my poetry on board.. Me back pedal,, not likely,, me ignore or deflect, quite likely.. Yes of course I am a liar,, You might not be since you use what might be your actual name, but everyone who invents a name, like Alpha is lying.. Some one cares?

[Isotopia]

You should get down on your knees and pray thanking the lord I don't put any of my poetry on board..

I'm thinking you might be really, really right about that.

[Guest]

Better be nice to me, I have poems, and I am not afraid to use them.

[Isotopia]

Better be nice to me, I have poems, and I am not afraid to use them.

Fucking classic!!!

[Bob]

Iso... did you know Rod McKuen is alive & well & has his own website?

Here comes
the muse of mostly
unimportant men.
She rides her pony
down into the little
palomino town where
Christmas only comes
on even years.
And where no angel
is allowed past sundown.

Of course, the rain has
started in to rein again.
Would it be springtime
otherwise?