Breathing Masks/Respirators and Lip Balm

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:53 am

Damned radios have one too many buttons...

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:42 am

My original post was inspired by the "OH HOW DANGEROUS" theme that was going on at the time. I was pointing out that, in my opinion and based on my experiences, if you were camping >ALONE< the Playa would be safer than most places. In fact I started with "If it were not for all of the people and their junk an alkali flat is probably one of the safest places to camp." Burning Man is nothing but the 'the people and their junk' and all of the injuries and boo-boos that I saw were caused by either people or their junk. I was NOT talking about people getting lost at Burning Man I was saying that if you were out there by yourself and you managed to get lost you were pretty damned stupid.

Remember, the following applies if you are alone.
The 'what if you are drunk or stoned' or 'dark or dust storm''. Sorry, if you go wandering off drunk, stoned or in the dark without a plan to find your way back you are stupid and deserve your Darwin award. Getting caught in a dust storm in daylight can be another matter, what you do there is sit down, cover your head and wait, if you go wandering around blindly you will be lost even when the storm lets up. I spend three hours hunkered down and contemplating my sins in Southern New Mexico once. By the way sand stings. dust does not.

The following applies to Burning Man.
People get lost in strange cities all the time and BRC is a very strange city. By and large the 'vibe' induces people to relax and kick back or to become totally exausted or drunk or stoned or all of the above. None of these states are truly dangerous in BRC since there is always someone ready to help out or go get help if needed. I was never annoyed with lost people and I helped out quite a few who thought I was magic since I had 1. actually sat down and studied the map and 2. actually paid attention to where I was.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:02 am

step 1) set camp.
step 2) set camp location as GPS waypoint.
step 3) set up camp bar. (or pharmacy)
step 4) set out to see city.
setp 5) hit BACKTRACK key. follow arrow home.

calsur · Post by **calsur** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:22 am

Or the way I did it on Valentines Day last week.

step 1) receive new Garman Legend GPS unit on Friday the 13th ($190)
step 2) walk out to car and power up new gps unit
step 3) set new gps unit on car roof to acquire satellites
step 4) remember you forgot directions to Orange County burners meeting
step 5) get the directions from your printer
step 6) forget about BRAND NEW GPS UNIT ON CAR ROOF
step 7) think "what the hell is that" as GPS unit slides off roof at 60 mph
step 8) INSTANT recognition of GPS unit that I had for less than 24 hours by the blue/green color as it hits the asphalt at 60 mph as I watch it in my drivers side rear view mirror
step 9) watch as it fragments into 2 pieces
step 10) hope I can put it back together.
step 11) SUV following me reduced half to splinters
step 12) Make "U" turn
step 13) Find remains of GPS unit
step 14) Recover 2 "AA" batteries
step 15) Proud owner of a $190 Garman Legend battery cover

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:21 am

OUCH! My sympathies.....I had a gas cap fall off my roof and roll into a busy intersection- Normally I'd just write it off, but it was a VW Rabbit cap, which was so damn hard to replace that people were stealing them off parked cars....I waited for half an hour for a break in traffic, and finally got within five feet when a truck smashed it. It took them YEARS to make a locking cap, and in the interim I had two more stolen.
On the bright side, now you need a NEW GPS, so you can buy a Rino 130...nice lookin' toy, that.......

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:28 am

I'm told that I'm pretty smart for a girl. After a week before the Event of non-stop work, my brains start to turn into oatmeal. I start asking stoopid questions, forget to drink water, cry spontaneously, and get lost -- esp at night and during dirt-storms. Because of my taoist leanings, I don't panic very often. I can fully understand it when someone from a cubicle-land, spiritually sequestured, culturally alienated, hermetically sealed environment gets transubstanciated into Playa-World, and they go through the same/similar experience of sensory overwhelm that I do, add a mixture of chemicals and inappropriate expectations and suddenly (w/o provocation) PANIC!

I'll be over here shutting up now.

gilmore · Post by **gilmore** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:17 am

Respirators - I’m a BM virgin so I’m not personally familiar with the dust conditions of the playa, but I have read many posts about it. I am up on respirators though.

Don’t EVEN bother with those cheap paper masks with the single rubber band. These are “nuisance” dusk masks and although the dust you will be exposed to is a nuisance, these will NOT provide enough protection for playa conditions.

I would also stay away from the ½ masks that have cartridges, UNLESS you are familiar with their usage from your workplace. Adjusting them to fit properly (selecting proper size for your face, strap tension, etc) is not the easiest thing for a respirator newbie. Here is a link to the fit test requirements that a company is SUPPOSED to perform on an employee given a respirator.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp ... &p_id=9780

Whether you followed this link or not, it isn’t a simple process. The other thing about this type/style of respirator is that they have small valves (3) and gaskets (2) that are just thin pieces of rubber. The valves can very easily become dislodged, tear, or become partially unseated. The gaskets have to be seated properly between the cartridge and the cartridge holder the cartridge holder must be properly attached to the mask housing. These are not things a respirator newbie would probably be watching for.

Me thinks, the way to go is a respirator that has a 95 rating AND an exhalation valve. These models have two head straps and an enclosed exhalation valve that serves a couple of purposes. It allows you to exhale directly out it, reducing moisture build up in the fabric of the respirator. This makes exhaling easier and will extend the respirator life by keeping it from smelling like a festering gym shoe.

Two more IMPORTANT things:

1) For a “real” proper fit you have to shave. It may sound nuts, but it makes a BIG difference. Two days of days of playa stubble (let alone 5 or 7) would reduce efficiency greatly.

2) MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL: Even with an exhalation valve, respirators tax the body’s respiratory and cardio systems. ANYONE with heart/lung problems should be advised to ask their Doctor about wearing any of these respirators. If you are required to wear one at your workplace you are SUPPOSED to be checked out by health care pro before hand in addition to being fit tested by a qualified person.

III · Post by **III** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:44 pm

>>Me thinks, the way to go is a respirator that has a 95 rating AND an exhalation valve.

i sometimes use a bandana when it gets real bad.

ronski · Post by **ronski** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:56 pm

I grew up in a family of body & fender men. I brought some of those particle masks with me to the playa last year. Never bothered using them; during the dust storms I just turned my back to the wind and waited it out. The dust seemed about as much of a nusiance as being in a garage while someone was grinding bondo. Blow your nose a few times when it's over. But hey, that's just me. The dust was more a vision problem than a breathing hazard. Hard to wipe it off my glasses.

Tiara · Post by **Tiara** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:57 pm

I’m a BM virgin so I’m not personally familiar with the dust conditions of the playa, but I have read many posts about it. I am up on respirators though.

Don’t EVEN bother with those cheap paper masks with the single rubber band.

Well, I've been to the playa several times and never taken anything more than those "cheap paper masks". In a pinch, I've breathed through the sleeve of my shirt.

Happily, I've lived to tell my tale.

Piper · Post by **Piper** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:14 pm

This year I use my little shop paper maskes, but some times I had to put the good onr on

http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi? ... _category=

Thanks CameraGirl

oh yeah I am the guy with the PURPLE on his mask...after all it is MY color

gilmore · Post by **gilmore** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:50 pm

Trey, Ronski, Tiara and Piper,

Thanks all for your additional comments.

I really should have been more specific about what I was trying to convey and who I was targeting my message to.

Many don't feel the need or want to bother with wearing a respirator. In hindsight, my post looks as if I'm endorsing it for all, which I shouldn't have done.

Everyone has their own preference, including Robbidobbs use of 1 yard of unbleached muslin. His comment on "Thousands of years of technology" is certainly on the mark. I imagine it works pretty well, too.

If just wanted to provide Respirator 101 from a technical point of view, so that if you did want to get one, you would have the benefit of someone's opinion that is well versed in the subject.

Piper · Post by **Piper** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:10 pm

gilmore wrote:Trey, Ronski, Tiara and Piper,

Thanks all for your additional comments.

If just wanted to provide Respirator 101 from a technical point of view, so that if you did want to get one, you would have the benefit of someone's opinion that is well versed in the subject.

Cool, I even checked my mask after reading your post, good on ya"

III · Post by **III** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:21 pm

point taken. i was just trying to provide the caveat that you don't need perfect filtering out there - you just wanna keep the big chunks out. (though it's good to see the rangers demonstrating how to not understand their environment).

oh, and

>>His comment

robbidobbs is all woman...

Piper · Post by **Piper** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:16 pm

[quote="III"]point taken. i was just trying to provide the caveat that you don't need perfect filtering out there - you just wanna keep the big chunks out. (though it's good to see the rangers demonstrating how to not understand their environment).

This Ranger has lived in that environment or something close to it all his life and understands if well, but as no one knows everything and most of us a keenly aware of how much we do not know, I am always willing to learn something here, continue

III · Post by **III** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:25 pm

at the risk of sounding like black rock rick, i've spent some time with the cowboys up in those parts, along with desert rats and off road racers in the mojave, and i've never seen one of them wear a filtered vapor mask.

(though to be fair, the people actually driving the race cars run a circulation system to their helmets that's even more complex that those, but that's a different situation.)

(and i was also takin the opportunity to poke fun at rangers, who are good folks as a rule, but seem to have a penchant for cute geeky tech toys almost to the point of impracticality. oh, and you should never trust em...)

Piper · Post by **Piper** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:50 pm

III wrote:at the risk of sounding like black rock rick, i've spent some time with the cowboys up in those parts, along with desert rats and off road racers in the mojave, and i've never seen one of them wear a filtered vapor mask.

(though to be fair, the people actually driving the race cars run a circulation system to their helmets that's even more complex that those, but that's a different situation.)

(and i was also takin the opportunity to poke fun at rangers, who are good folks as a rule, but seem to have a penchant for cute geeky tech toys almost to the point of impracticality. oh, and you should never trust em...)

Well, I hunt up there, and have played all over the area, along with time in the NM deserts, and yeah, usually a bandana is it. Since I have been teaching shop I have gotten used to using the cheap paper masks. They keep the big chunks out and keep you from feeling like you are chewing the air, but I just had to use the purple mask a few times. and will take it again, cant wear it in a real white out as the filters will plug, but as I said, I just had to get some use out of it

Hey even rangers take time to poke fun at themselves, so why shouldn't you. trust me....

awibs · Post by **awibs** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:08 am

[quote="robbidobbs"]

My own experience is to keep 1 yard of unbleached muslin around my neck like a kerchief, or tied to my butt-pack AT ALL TIMES while out there. This way, if a dirt-storm does come, I just wrap it around my face and keep on going.
Thousands of years of technology can't be too far off base, and I don't like the idea of breathing through fiberglass (or whatever those ugly paper masks are made of). One yard is about a dollar at your neighborhood fabric store, and it will last forever. It also serves as something to drape over your face when you're trying to sleep during a storm.[/quote]

I'm really glad someone mentioned this and affirms it's effective-ness. That's what I was thinking. I'm Persian, you see, so I have a bit of experience with methods of wrapping large amounts of cloth about one's head. Iran is mountains, not desert, but it's still generally dry and dusty. And the middle eastern peoples are more akin than they'd like to admit. Anyway, I was largely planning to dress like an Arab - breezy, shady, and ready-to-go dust shield at all times.

For anyone who's not sure how to make a basic headdress - for men, get a large square (about 3 feet by 3 feet) of muslin, calico, quilting cotton or what have you, and a small scrap, like an inch wide and long enough to tie around your head. Fold one corner in considerably...... don't quite fold it in half like a triangle, but nearly. The folded edge goes near your face, with the triangle-points down your back. Center it, put the edge fairly low on your forehead (right above the eyebrows usually) and hold it tight under your chin, so only the neccessary parts of your face show, like a babushka. You can use your chin to pin it to your chest, or hold the edges in your teeth. Tie the scrap rambo-style around your head. Release. Voila. For the ladies, a slightly larger square works, or a rectangle about 2 feet by 4 feet. Fold the square completely into a triangle and drape it over your head the same way, or drape the rectangle over your head so the long sides go down your arm. One exception - drape it off-center. You want about 1/3 of the fabric going down your left shoulder and 2/3 going down your right. Pull the (shorter) left side in front of your shoulder, hanging straight down, wrap the (longer) right side under your chin, over the left, around behind your neck (loosely enough so the pouch covering your head has room for your hair if it's long) and tie both ends under your chin. Fluff the pouch on your right shoulder to cover the knot.

If there's any interest, I can post pictures of how to do this......

awibs · Post by **awibs** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:13 am

oh btw...... the arab-headdress also serves as a very nice way to avoid sunburn.....

couple it with light, flowy, muslim-style robes and you're good to go.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:47 am

never seen one of them wear a filtered vapor mask

yeah, I've also seen photos of dudes in the fifties working with nuclear waste w/o any protection. Elbow deep in the shit. I am sure they (those who are alive) regret that a bit. Still, I don't think a hazmat suit is a playa requirement.

ronski · Post by **ronski** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:57 am

Clarification: while I didn't feel like the conditions necessitated a big filtered mask, if you wanted to get decked out in a big honkin' mask and goggles because it LOOKED COOL, then I say go for it! Especially with this years' theme....

((sound of heavy breathing)) "Luke, I am your father....."

III · Post by **III** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:05 am

>>decked out in a big honkin' mask and goggles because it LOOKED COOL

uhhh.

that's a joke, right?

(i'm sure there are people who think utilikilts look cool too, along with all the people who buy their playawear at hot topic or ozzie dots.)

dana · Post by **dana** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:58 pm

I'm sorry but half the responses on this post are driving me crazy. As a physician I'm more than just a little worried about the dust. Pnuemoconioses are a class of particularly nasty and insidious respiratory diseases that start with chronic exposure to various kinds of inhaled particles. Silicosis would be one possibility of too much playa on the lung. The question is really about what size the particles are. Go to the hardware store and ask for a mask suitable for dry wall work. Don't just wrap fabric around your face if you want real protection.

I know what I'm giving out for gifts...

Can't wait to see all you beautiful loonies again!

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:07 pm

I know what I'm giving out for gifts...

HEPA filtered half face respirators?

shitmouse · Post by **shitmouse** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:47 pm

tonka wrote:Question...

Whats all this about breathing masks, goggles and respirators?
Is it really that dusty out there?

...yes.

it is. -(in fact if you'll be flat blown away at HOW dusty it can get. seriously. respect the dust.)

-b

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:08 pm

Silicosis would be one possibility of too much playa on the lung.

Not sure about that. I'm assuming that as far as the event is concerned you're talking about acute silicosis.

There's not much in the way of silica based granules on the playa. Most of the soils are ultrbasic - mostly plagioclase - which have little or no silica compositionally. On the other hand they're chock full of heavy metals due to their (mostly) volcanic origins. Lots and lots of heavy metals.

calsur · Post by **calsur** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:16 am

A real blast from the past here.

To clarify why I posted this question originally is that I has seen the pictures of the big storms that had hit and I wanted to know how to deal with them. I do not plan to walk around wearing my Respro Aero mask and goggles but I will have them in my pack I am kind of stupid that way. I ask advice from people who have been there and done that and follow it.

Nick, Thanks for turning me onto the respros. I use them all the time now around pile drivers or when I am in a pit and I have not had diesel fume problems since. Thanks again.

dana · Post by **dana** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:37 pm

Badger-
oh so technical! I had to look up Plagioclase in the dictionary- as in feldspar which is mostly aluminum silicates, which would make silicosis the most likely possibility of too much playa dust inhalation.
That is an important distinction between chronic and acute exposure to particulates and I did allude to that already. Last year was my first time and I somehow missed the warnings to bring good dust masks. My lungs felt raw after going without, and then using only one of the cheap single band masks. I think a lot of people have had similar experiences with the dreaded 'playa lung', which is certainly an acute inflammatory response.
In terms of chronic exposure, you'd have to consider the total load of particulates that accumulate in your lungs over time, whether you're a smoker, have other pulmonary diseases, etc. If you're really technically minded about the issue of possible silicosis, there's variables that I don't know, such as what exact particle size and shape we're dealing with. But consider this: Pick up some playa dirt and feel it in your fingers. Its very fine, like a clay. Potters are definitely susceptible to silicosis if they're mixing a lot of dry clay without a mask. Then think about some of those windless evenings when there's a haze of dust hanging in the air like fog just from vehicle and pedestrian traffic. For the particles to suspend in the air like that with no wind, they have to be pretty small. Then consider how incredibly hard that stuff is to clean off all your gear.
The bottom line for me is that I'll take all kinds of calculated risks for the sake of fun, but if there's an easy means of mitigating the risk, I'll take it. I suspect a full respirator is total overkill for dust, unless it's something like asbestos. One of the things I love about BM is the sight of hordes of people out having fun in adverse conditions.

Remember, if you can see it, don't breathe it!

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:48 pm

Well, one option would be to perform a lung flush with vinegar.

Seriously though, going through many of the posts over the years there seems to be enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that a good number of people do end up with some minor bronchial and repsiratory irritation related to the playa dust. Personally, I've never had any ailments to speak of other than the 'nose potatos' (don't ask) that some people mention.

Doubt that there's been any significant epidemiological studies done around the area to buttress the silicosos issue one way or the other.

dana · Post by **dana** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:56 pm

I wanted to add one other note in response to the traditional desert nomadic protection with mere fabric. That really only filters out "the big chunks", which is not what you have to worry about. The really small particles have the nasty habit of blowing right through the fabric and, more seriously, through your airways' natural filtering mechanisms which allows them to settle into the deeper portions of your lungs where they are much harder to clear. Traditional nomadic people use what they have available. Traditional head wrap is certainly more stylin'. While it's better than nothing, fabric is no where near as good as a cheap two-band dust mask.

Breathing Masks/Respirators and Lip Balm

One last time

Stupidity or just sensory overwhelm?

Respirators

dust

Respirators - More Specific

Re: Respirators - More Specific

Re: Whats all this about breathing masks?

Breathing Masks

Re: Whats all this about breathing masks?

blast from the past

dustmasks

dustmasks