Guns, Love Em or Leave Em

[Toolmaker]

[quote="can't sit still"]More shit;
http://www.dailynewscaster.com/2009/05/ ... un-owners/
who knows?
From Iowa;
"Troops will spend Thursday, April 2, staging at a forward operations base at Carroll. The next day company leaders will conduct reconnaissance and begin patrolling the streets of Arcadia to identify possible locations of the weapons dealer."
"“Once credible intelligence has been gathered,â€

[chiefdanfox]

for me, the frustrating part is, that, most people in this country have already chosen sides on the gun control debate..........if they care at all.......

For me the frustrating part is the context of weapons or arms as being so central to folks who wrap themselves in the Constitution, when in fact it is the 4th and not the 2nd that is central to liberty. The gun control debate has been a diversion.

Since about 1991, the 4th Amendment has essentially vanished through various judicial and executive action. The government can walk into your house, take all of your weapons, charge you with "terroristic threats" and lock you and your family away forever, without charging you, and do so with an "anonymous" tip, that never has to be reviewed by a judge or jury for validity. The 2nd Amendment is of little value when the local, state and federal agencies have the right to imprison, confiscate and hold people and their property without due process. But boy, let's keep that damn fire burning under the gun control debate. "The'r takin' 'er guhns!!" That kettle ain't got no water, plinker.

The debate has been about the 2nd and the straw man argument that the government is working to take weapons away; all the while we handed the government the right to do so by eroding and dismantling the 4th. The war on drugs and the war on terrorism essentially gave the "government" (local police agencies) the right to warrant-less searches and seizures based on anonymous tips, and ability to charge ordinary people with a range of crimes from statues designed to punish drug cartel operatives and people in real terrorist networks. Read the paper, and look at how many people are charged with "Terroristic Threats" these days. The 2nd doesn't mean diddle to someone sitting in jail. The 4th does.

Anyone who thinks they are immune from a warrant-less search, wiretap or imprisonment without charges is ignorant of the basic facts of life in America today. Anyone that publicly states the 2nd Amendment will mitigate this problem is probably already suspect of being a terrorist, and will be so charged as soon as they attempt to place that creed into action.

[Toolmaker]

for me, the frustrating part is, that, most people in this country have already chosen sides on the gun control debate..........if they care at all........

and, IMHO, the ones who are in favor, support these sort of programs, because, they think it'll keep them "safe" from all those terrible "militias".

[youtube][/youtube]

On a side note.. here is something to watch

[youtube][/youtube]

Only thing missing is the guns.. the camo is a nice pacifist look.

Now a message from our sponsors

[youtube][/youtube]

Also of interest is the America in Peril #1 and #2 videos.

[dr.placebo]

For me the frustrating part is the context of weapons or arms as being so central to folks who wrap themselves in the Constitution, when in fact it is the 4th and not the 2nd that is central to liberty. The gun control debate has been a diversion.

Excellent post!

[cowboyangel]

The plutocratic thugs will always win when it comes to firepower.

More potent than this is "organizing" and using boycotts and general strikes.


When the social order fails, as it could conceivably do, the guns are for personal protection. In that context, they make sense to me.

[Toolmaker]

The plutocratic thugs will always win when it comes to firepower.

More potent than this is "organizing" and using boycotts and general strikes.


When the social order fails, as it could conceivably do, the guns are for personal protection. In that context, they make sense to me.

Don't forget the ability to feed oneself when the supermarkets are closed. Thats always been important to me since I'm such a shitty fisherman.

I have however been having more luck at trapping without using cages and whatnot. I'm planning on trying for a gator sometime before the burn to test my water snare with chicken bait. The problem with gator is that you have to keep em blind while ya club em. But boy are they tasty.

Anyone here a bowhunter? I have never had much luck with accuracy there.. far worse than my luck at fishing. Is it alot easier to do with one of those compound bows? I only have an old school Bear bow thats a real mother to keep pulled.

[Apollonaris Zeus]

Anyone who thinks they are immune from a warrant-less search, wiretap or imprisonment without charges is ignorant of the basic facts of life in America today. Anyone that publicly states the 2nd Amendment will mitigate this problem is probably already suspect of being a terrorist, and will be so charged as soon as they attempt to place that creed into action.

Here's another form of abuse that goes on with a warrent all the time. Tracking people using their cell phone telemetry and the use of GPS trackers. We have a Prosecutor that is running for Gov now that had done just that (he’s a republican of course and say’s he did to protect us from terrorist, felons and just dangerous people) without getting warrant.

The plutocratic thugs will always win when it comes to firepower.

More potent than this is "organizing" and using boycotts and general strikes.


When the social order fails, as it could conceivably do, the guns are for personal protection. In that context, they make sense to me.

Very wise words indeed!

AIIZ

[ygmir]

for me, the frustrating part is, that, most people in this country have already chosen sides on the gun control debate..........if they care at all.......

For me the frustrating part is the context of weapons or arms as being so central to folks who wrap themselves in the Constitution, when in fact it is the 4th and not the 2nd that is central to liberty. The gun control debate has been a diversion.

Since about 1991, the 4th Amendment has essentially vanished through various judicial and executive action. The government can walk into your house, take all of your weapons, charge you with "terroristic threats" and lock you and your family away forever, without charging you, and do so with an "anonymous" tip, that never has to be reviewed by a judge or jury for validity. The 2nd Amendment is of little value when the local, state and federal agencies have the right to imprison, confiscate and hold people and their property without due process. But boy, let's keep that damn fire burning under the gun control debate. "The'r takin' 'er guhns!!" That kettle ain't got no water, plinker.

The debate has been about the 2nd and the straw man argument that the government is working to take weapons away; all the while we handed the government the right to do so by eroding and dismantling the 4th. The war on drugs and the war on terrorism essentially gave the "government" (local police agencies) the right to warrant-less searches and seizures based on anonymous tips, and ability to charge ordinary people with a range of crimes from statues designed to punish drug cartel operatives and people in real terrorist networks. Read the paper, and look at how many people are charged with "Terroristic Threats" these days. The 2nd doesn't mean diddle to someone sitting in jail. The 4th does.

Anyone who thinks they are immune from a warrant-less search, wiretap or imprisonment without charges is ignorant of the basic facts of life in America today. Anyone that publicly states the 2nd Amendment will mitigate this problem is probably already suspect of being a terrorist, and will be so charged as soon as they attempt to place that creed into action.

good points, and well said, CDF.

C A wrote:

The plutocratic thugs will always win when it comes to firepower.

More potent than this is "organizing" and using boycotts and general strikes.


When the social order fails, as it could conceivably do, the guns are for personal protection. In that context, they make sense to me.

I'm with you here, too..........

[ygmir]

The plutocratic thugs will always win when it comes to firepower.

More potent than this is "organizing" and using boycotts and general strikes.


When the social order fails, as it could conceivably do, the guns are for personal protection. In that context, they make sense to me.

Don't forget the ability to feed oneself when the supermarkets are closed. Thats always been important to me since I'm such a shitty fisherman.

I have however been having more luck at trapping without using cages and whatnot. I'm planning on trying for a gator sometime before the burn to test my water snare with chicken bait. The problem with gator is that you have to keep em blind while ya club em. But boy are they tasty.

Anyone here a bowhunter? I have never had much luck with accuracy there.. far worse than my luck at fishing. Is it alot easier to do with one of those compound bows? I only have an old school Bear bow thats a real mother to keep pulled.

I used to bow hunt...........certainly a different scene............

A compound bow makes it much easier, in many ways.........

of course, there are those who will deride you for not having "the reverence of the native american hunters of ancient times".......but, they do work well.
More opportunity for a follow up shot, since, there's no real noise...........
but, you gotta learn to track, and, shoot for vital spots.
So many people get lazy with firearms and just "shoot",,,,,,,,

[CapSmashy]

AZ:
would it be safe to say, your vision of utopia would be a completely dis-armed communist society?
Maybe the option to 'rent' a gun if you want to hunt or target practice?

I don't ask this as an attack, just, for me, a clarification.

I note in most of your political posts, a definate attitude against "old values, institutions, etc".

I'd guess, then, that your ideal would be, where we're all "protected and served" by the government?

Sort of a "womb to the tomb" government involvement in our lives?

Just wonderin'......

However, his point is still very relevant and 100% dead on.

The article was total fabrication and bullshit.

99.9 % of the propoganda being spread about CIFTA is of the same 100% bullshit.

[CapSmashy]

This is another CIFTA operation. CIFTA is not new..
http://www.state.gov/p/wha/rls/49907.htm[/b]

Nope, it was first drafted by the State Dpeartment in the 90's.

Doesn't matter whether you are a lawful owner and/or reloader.. you're home is subject to searches by foreign troops.

What the fuck... you actually believe this?

They've been staying away from the big cities so as not to arouse too much suspicion amingst the masses.

Newsflash for ya, its a total bullshit claim. There have been no foreign troops on any US soil searching anywhere for your guns.

It also helps to have bird flu and swine flu psy ops going on to mask what else is going on thats more important. Who cares about dead soldiers and foreign troops on US soil running ops when we have good ol swine flu to worry about.

And your proof of said foreign troops running all the operations on US soil?

I know you are much smarter than to believe this kind of total nonsense.

[Toolmaker]

This is another CIFTA operation. CIFTA is not new..
http://www.state.gov/p/wha/rls/49907.htm[/b]

Nope, it was first drafted by the State Dpeartment in the 90's.

Doesn't matter whether you are a lawful owner and/or reloader.. you're home is subject to searches by foreign troops.

What the fuck... you actually believe this?

They've been staying away from the big cities so as not to arouse too much suspicion amingst the masses.

Newsflash for ya, its a total bullshit claim. There have been no foreign troops on any US soil searching anywhere for your guns.

It also helps to have bird flu and swine flu psy ops going on to mask what else is going on thats more important. Who cares about dead soldiers and foreign troops on US soil running ops when we have good ol swine flu to worry about.

And your proof of said foreign troops running all the operations on US soil?

I know you are much smarter than to believe this kind of total nonsense.

I know you find it hard to swallow.. I did at first too in the early 90s.

Sorry M8 too much camcorder police evidence out there.

Not too mention groups with a little too much power that they often abuse. As Jefferson warned us the Legislative Branch is the only Branch with the flaw where Freedom can be taken.

One example of someone with authority over US in addition to the WTO and WHO..

http://www.cicad.oas.org/en/default.asp

If you actually read the CIFTA link I provided you will see the allowance for non-us enforcement being permitted. The drug war has been their excuse all along in too many cases of abuse of power.

I hate to say it bluntly but we are too far gone along the wrong path and all too soon will people no longer be able to turn a blind eye.

Who knows why there are so many FEMA camps, or all this wacky legislation. When our leaders can't even come clean about things like the Kennedy assassination or 9/11 alot of us gotta wonder wtf these Bilderburger fucks are up to.

It is difficult to re-educate people who have been brought up on nationalism to the idea of relinquishing part of their sovereignty to a supra-national body.

Bilderberg Group founder, Prince Bernhard

Read this book

The True Story Of The Bilderberg Group

You can get it on amazon.. its an eye opener

[Elderberry]

This whole last set of posts is an eye roller

JK

[CapSmashy]

That's just it, I do not find it hard to swallow, because what's being said by the fringe conspiracy groups is not true.

There is no camcorder evidence of foreign troops conducting special or any other kind of ops missions on US soil. Why? Because it ain't fucking happening.

I do not need to read some guys rantings on what he thinks CIFTA is going to do, I only need to read the actual treaty proposal found here:

http://www.state.gov/p/wha/rls/49907.htm

CIFTA is an agreement to regulate firearms and ammunition sales among the sovereign signatory states. Nothing more nothing less. The regulations called for by the signers to implement to comply with the provisions of CIFTA are essentially modeled on the existing ATF regulatory licensing and regulations already in place for sales to foreign governments already in place in the US.

If you can cite the text in the CIFTA document that allows for foreign troops to inspect or regulate the activities of other nations in regards to firearm or ammunition manufacture, I'd love to see it.


And FEMA camps? Where are all these FEMA camps I keep hearing so much about? The only recent legislation regarding FEMA establishing housing set ups was to utilize disused military housing for the temporary housing of victims of disasters and it died in committee.

And I'd love to see what other whacky legislation is out there. Give me the Congressional Session and the related House or Senate bill number.

[ygmir]

This whole last set of posts is an eye roller

JK

careful rolling your eyes while your head is buried in the sand, JK......it'll hurt............

giggle......poke, poke..nudge....nudge.......

[Toolmaker]

That's just it, I do not find it hard to swallow, because what's being said by the fringe conspiracy groups is not true.

There is no camcorder evidence of foreign troops conducting special or any other kind of ops missions on US soil. Why? Because it ain't fucking happening.

[youtube][/youtube]

http://www.uaff.us/femacamps.htm

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

If you watch no other video watch the last one

[CapSmashy]

Well, I've learned long ago there is no arguing with the Alex Jones devotees.

And the last video is an excellent use of jump cuts, fast edits and the application and use of ridiculously out of context remarks.

[ygmir]

I tend to err on the side of caution, cynicism, paranoia........grin.....

if Toolmaker is wrong, then, life is peachy and we all get bread and circuses...........cable tv and fast food.

if you're wrong, we're screwed.........worker bees in the totalitarian utopia of our masters, comrades, as such.........

I'm for "prepare for the worst, hope for the best".............

but, of course, that's just me.........

[CapSmashy]

The problem I have with relying solely on people like Alex Jones is that they have a definitive agenda to sell to the public. There is no context beyond the overlayed narration that Alex wants you to hear int he above videos. Its his message and his message alone with some very creative video editing coupled with a total lack of context contained in the video and/or audio to drive his point home.

That's not news, that's propoganda. The same thing he chooses to accuse the government all the time.

I have already asked once for the text within the actual CIFTA document (link is posted above) that will allow foreign troops to make searches and enforce the law inside the US borders. All I got in response was some Alex Jones videos that had no context and certainly did not address anything related to CIFTA. I also asked for the sessions and bill numbers of all this other legislation that is supposedly pending and waiting to enslave us all to their will anbd got nothing in return.

The issue I have with the stuff Toolmaker is posting is that this is pretty much the exact same dog and pony show Alex Jones has been pushing from 20 years ago when I first listened to him. And in the past 20 years , not a single, solitary "warning" from Jones has come to fruition. His big photo expose from the early 90's of the FEMA camps that were built and just waiting for the UN troop invasion to come in and start rounding up Americans for "reeducation" turned out to be trash fences for landfills, industrial sites, etc. when people went and looked for themselves. His FEMA camp address list turned out to be car lots, vacant lots, private homes, etc when people went and looked for themselves. The rows of UN buses lined up in parking lots for use in said American round ups to transport them to their re-education were actually photos at the docks of American built school buses, painted to UN specifications, awaiting loading and transport overseas.

Jones learned from this and now provides even less data about his claims. The video above showcasing US and British troops training together offers nothing in terms of where, when or what beyond a carefully edited and narrated spiel from Jones. Give me detailed specifics. Where did this occur? When did this occur? What was the TRADOC criteria? The details that would enable independent research into the events he is making claims about are not present. If there was any legitimacy to his claims, why would he not want independent research intot he events he is depicting? Watching an Alex Jones video is not much different from watching an afternoon of Fox News, agenda driven hoopla devoid of substance beyond what they want you to see and hear.

I have a very healthy distrust of my government, but not to the point that I would believe that there are hundreds of thousands of UN Peace Keepers poised just over the horizon to come swooping in on all of us that do not toe the magic "NWO" line and round us up into FEMA camps. Our government is a bloated sack of failure, but it is a very predictable bloated sack of failure.

Take the ongoing debacle and insane paranoia generated by the NRA and similar groups over guns that have led to massive shortages and price gouging by the gun industry and retailers. You know who has profited massively off of this? Groups like the NRA that have seen their membership coffers fill like never before, gun and ammo manufacturers that have been working frantically to try and keep up with demand and unscrupulous retailers and dealers that are marking up their inventories as high as 500% over cost. I'm a licensed gun dealer and I can assure you with absolute certainty that the wholesale prices from manufacturers have not increased even 50%. I will never do business with places like Cheaper Than Dirt that jumped all of their instore prices 200 to 300% once the gun madness began to profit off of the hysteria being artificially created.

The gun markets are finally normalizing, but the ammunition markets are still in full throttle Chicken Little mode from the irresponsible and erroneous propoganda merchants like the NRA. I am just thankful I have a decent supply on hand for my own personal use because there is no sign of the ammo markets normalizing anytime soon.

What was the motivator behind all this hysteria? "Oh noes! Obama gonna take all your guns!!!" Really? Show me the legislation. Oh there is none, well surprise, surprise, imagine that. Congress has been pretty emphatic in their declarations that they will not be passing any new gun laws no matter what is being spewed by the White House. Why? They want to keep their fatcat seats and the quickest way to loose it is to start fucking with gun owners. They learned that lesson hard in 1994.

[CapSmashy]

Blair Holt Firearm Licensing
& Record of Sale Act
2-16-9

Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House.

This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.
We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under the radar.
To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.

Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
·It is registered
·You are fingerprinted
·You supply a current Driver's License
·You supply your Social Security #
·You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
·Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.
·There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.
They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. In prison.
If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of many options to read this. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in your family - pass this along.
Peter Boyles is on this and having guests. Listen to him on KHOW 630 a.m. In the morning. He suggests the best way to fight this is to tell all your friends about it and "spring into action". Also he suggests we all join a pro-gun group like the Colorado Rifle Association, hunting associations, gun clubs and especially the NRA.
This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone realizes it.

This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.
If you take my gun, only the criminal will have one to use against me. HR 45 only makes me/us less safe. After working with convicts for 26 years I know this bill, if passed, would make them happy and in less danger from their victims.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/show
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-45
Please.. Copy and send this out to EVERYONE in the USA
More On Gun Grab HR 45 Here...
http://news.google.com/news?oe=UTF-8&hl ... earch+News

Did Peter Boyle bother to mention that the previous attempts to pass this legislation never made it out of committee?

[geospyder]

Blair Holt Firearm Licensing
& Record of Sale Act
2-16-9

Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House.

This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.
We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under the radar.
To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.

Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
·It is registered
·You are fingerprinted
·You supply a current Driver's License
·You supply your Social Security #
·You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
·Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.
·There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.
They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. In prison.
If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of many options to read this. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in your family - pass this along.
Peter Boyles is on this and having guests. Listen to him on KHOW 630 a.m. In the morning. He suggests the best way to fight this is to tell all your friends about it and "spring into action". Also he suggests we all join a pro-gun group like the Colorado Rifle Association, hunting associations, gun clubs and especially the NRA.
This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone realizes it.

This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.
If you take my gun, only the criminal will have one to use against me. HR 45 only makes me/us less safe. After working with convicts for 26 years I know this bill, if passed, would make them happy and in less danger from their victims.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/show
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-45
Please.. Copy and send this out to EVERYONE in the USA
More On Gun Grab HR 45 Here...
http://news.google.com/news?oe=UTF-8&hl ... earch+News

Did Peter Boyle bother to mention that the previous attempts to pass this legislation never made it out of committee?

This version, which has no co-sponsors, is also doomed to die in committee. I seriously doubt that the current administration is going to risk losing the mid-term elections by taking on the pro-gun lobby. They have too many other issues to tackle. When it first came out I wrote both my senators and my congressman expressing my opposition to the bill. All three wrote back saying they were in favor of the 2nd amendment and would oppose the bill if it ever made it out of committee.

[Apollonaris Zeus]

That's just it, I do not find it hard to swallow, because what's being said by the fringe conspiracy groups is not true.

There is no camcorder evidence of foreign troops conducting special or any other kind of ops missions on US soil. Why? Because it ain't fucking happening.

[youtube][/youtube]

http://www.uaff.us/femacamps.htm

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

If you watch no other video watch the last one

Biosheres used as military bases

You really got to be fuck up to believe such shit

AIIZ

[CapSmashy]

The trucker video and all those "foreign" military vehicles on the road in Alabama?

Those are M-2/M-3 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, one of the current APC in use by the US military.

Why are they on trucks rolling across the Southern US? Well it might have something to do with the location of the production facility that builds them and the fact that the primary shipping ports to send them overseas are in southern ports and the primary military bases that utilize them for training purposes are located at the infantry and armor bases in the south.

[littleflower]

[Apollonaris Zeus]

Are our politicians, LEO's and anti constitutionalist using the War On Drugs as a cover for the War On Guns? If we can end the war on drugs then we wouldn't have the gun killings related to drugs!

I find this opinion by John Stossel quite enlightening on the subject. I'll just post the link because I have already posted the article in the Legalize Marijuana Thread:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=7414816&page=1

[ygmir]

that's a good article...........

[cowboyangel]

When I was living in Marfa Texas last year, I learned that the biggest area criminal was none other than the former head sheriff-took gigantic bribes from drug dealers across the border. Nice white guy family man. The money is too big a temptation for many. I'm glad at least, that US complicity in Mexico's drug problems is getting some balance now. The problem is not the guns, again, it's the people. In this case, the greed-bastards that traffic in illegal guns. The drug problem is finally being acknowledged as US problem in consumption too. Let's tell the real story. (Yeah and get offed or 'suicided' like Gary Webb) I think the big banks have a deep hand in drug money laundering too. Katherine Austin Fitts has much to say about that. http://solari.com search the 'black budget'. Who the fuck do you think can handle extra large wads of cash? Anton Sigar?

[cowboyangel]

also found this


http://www.thewe.cc/weplanet/news/ameri ... conomy.htm

Narcotics trafficking and the National Interest
One reason for the Fed’s silence is that agencies of the government itself have been involved in drug trafficking for sixty years or more. [xix]
For the purposes of understanding the black budget, one needs to be aware of the American practice of opening the American consumer market for drugs to foreign exporters in order to pursue strategic objectives abroad.
The portability of narcotics and the huge price mark up from production to point of sale makes them a particularly useful source of financing for covert operations.
Even more important is that the proceeds from narcotics sales fall completely outside conventional, constitutional channels of funding.
This helps explain the ubiquitous presence of narcotics trafficking in zones of conflict around the world, from Columbia to Afghanistan. [xx]
Little examined, however, is the impact of narcotics trafficking on communities and economies at the point of sale.
Consider, for example, the impact on real estate markets and financial services.
Real estate is an attractive area in which to employ the cash surplus resulting from narcotics sales because it is, as an industry, entirely unregulated with respect to money laundering.
Because cash is an acceptable and in some places familiar method of payment, large sums can be disposed of easily and with little comment.
This can and does result in considerable distortion to local demand, and in turn provide fuel for real estate speculation and increased credit demand to finance it along with considerable opportunities for speculation and fraud. [xxi]
The Iran Contra episode during the 1980s contained all these elements; although many are familiar with the sale of arms to Iran to provide cash to finance CIA backed guerrillas in Nicaragua and death squads in El Salvador, less well-known is the systematic looting of local financial institutions and narcotics sales in the US.
Banking allows the application of leverage to the cash that is generated by “illegalâ€

[ygmir]

that sounds about right, and reasonable, to me.

The thing about human society, is, there will always be "illegal activities", "cheaters", etc.
and, things society, at a given time, allows, accepts, or not.

I think it's an un-ending battle to balance what's ok and not, who can cheat and how much, etc. .........and, who's to blame and who can fix it........

It's so often colored by a personal POV, as well...........

interesting to speculate, chase, and manipulate......impossible to ever stop............the best anyone can hope, IMHO, is to "channel" it to manageable proportions.........

I think, though, guns in the hands of private, responsible, citizens always works to keep tyranny at bay............and, if the negative to that is that a few get into the hands of nefarious characters, well, so be it.......then, we deal with the scoff-laws, not the guns......

[can't sit still]

This is cold and hard;
"You've got us surrounded, you poor bastards."

Memo for the Record to the Next Congress;

"after considerable thought we have decided we agree with Bill Clinton. Back in 1999, when he was trying to pressure the Serbians into giving up Kosovo, then President Clinton expanded American rules of war to include -- as legitimate targets of deadly force -- the politicians and the news media that shaped and supported his enemy's war policy."

"Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you force us into resistance by further circumscribing our rights -- by sending federal police to our doors to enforce your will -- can't those same Clintonian rules of engagement be applied to you?"

"The advocates of citizen disarmament are probably willing to fight a war down to the last dead ATF agent, but are YOU willing to fight one past the first dead politician? And how many dead editors will it take to change an editorial board policy?"

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