Heat sealing billboard vinyl?

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Fri May 15, 2009 2:36 pm

I'm looking at ways to build a better cover for my 2v dome this year, and billboard vinyl looks promising. I've seen many people reference a document containing instructions for heat-sealing this material, but haven't found the document itself!

Does anyone have any tips for doing this, or know where I can find this document? Thanks!

Â¡Niers! · Post by **Â¡Niers!** » Sat May 16, 2009 8:40 am

I've done lots of heat patching to vinyl tarps with success. When I was ready to try that to the billboard tarp that I was making into a 2v cover, not so much luck. It barely worked at all. It would stick, but one good tug and it just came apart. Not something I recommend for a dome in Black Rock.
So my brother and I set out to the hardware store and checked out some different glues.
After several trials, we found that what held the best was PVC glue. I know it's nasty stuff, but the seal could withstand hurricane winds.
Make sure it's not the kind that requires PVC primer. That stuff will melt right through. We found this stuff:
http://shop.tjb-inc.com/shared/StoreFro ... googlebase

There is also a low VOC version of this very stuff that wasn't available when we were doing ours.
Which brings me to the off-gassing. Fumes galore! Once we finished and put the cover on the frame, the fumes were strong.
We left it up for a week or 2 and kept the door flaps open.
No more fumes. Serious, my boyfriend is quite sensitive to fumes like that, and he didn't notice any at BM.

Welp, there's my 2 pennies.
A great, strong dome cover ready for anything in the elements.
I hope my input is of help to you. Good luck and enjoy your dome!

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat May 16, 2009 9:07 am

where can one get billboard vinyl?
I'd sure like to get some.......
I've had luck "welding" plastic in general, although, never tried tarps.......I used a soldering iron, and, melted and mixed just like steel.......
What sort of plastic is it? HDPE, PVC, ABS.........? that would also dictate glues that would work.......most polyurethanes can't be glued, IIRC, they require welding.......or rivets.......

good luck

rodiponer · Post by **rodiponer** » Sat May 16, 2009 9:23 am

This guy has a few paragraphs on welding polyethylene tarps with a heat gun (scroll down to the bottom of the page):
http://www.dragishak.com/dome/dome.html

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat May 16, 2009 7:33 pm

ygmir wrote:where can one get billboard vinyl?

From media companies. They do give it out to people who ask. I'm a little uncertain if they ask that you arrange it so that you don't see the adverts, or if that's a burner thing. You might do a search to get a better idea of what's already been said on this board.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat May 16, 2009 8:53 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
ygmir wrote:where can one get billboard vinyl?
From media companies. They do give it out to people who ask. I'm a little uncertain if they ask that you arrange it so that you don't see the adverts, or if that's a burner thing. You might do a search to get a better idea of what's already been said on this board.

I'll try that, Fishy.........more, I was hoping someone near here in northern Ca would see my query and respond with a name and or location..........
We don't have any "media" companies here where I live..........

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat May 16, 2009 10:47 pm

My guess is that by the time you obtain used billboard vinyl that's been exposed to the weather for months, it's so degraded that mechanical means would be preferable to chemical means of seaming/edging/etc.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sat May 16, 2009 11:05 pm

Strip of metal on each side with heat applied. Not too much heat else you will have a molten messy goo. Soldering iron "spot welding" can work too but again be careful and experiment with a small piece to get your feel. There are glues about but you would need to know the material as mentioned. MSC would likely have the product at a high cost.. you could window shop there and look elsewhere for a cheaper source.

mscdirect.com

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Sun May 17, 2009 5:44 am

Bob wrote:My guess is that by the time you obtain used billboard vinyl that's been exposed to the weather for months, it's so degraded that mechanical means would be preferable to chemical means of seaming/edging/etc.

Not even close to breaking down. The vinyl is 20 mil thick and uv protected and not really effected much by hanging on a billboard for a few months.

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Sun May 17, 2009 5:45 am

And its typically the media companies that ask you to keep the advert side down.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun May 17, 2009 6:15 am

I'm trying to find a company like that in the Sacramento area, anyone have any thoughts?

I have a large truck, so, could pick up a bunch if anyone wants to share........

Post by **AntiM** » Sun May 17, 2009 8:06 am

We used an iron. You just have to put a layer of newspaper in so you don't melt the vinyl to the iron.

Tough suckers, ours only wore out if something was rubbing on them.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sun May 17, 2009 8:50 am

ygmir wrote:I'm trying to find a company like that in the Sacramento area, anyone have any thoughts?

I have a large truck, so, could pick up a bunch if anyone wants to share........

I've been trying to get some for years now. Everyone keeps talking about how easy and free it is in dozens of threads each year but nobody ever shares the name or phone number of who to call. I even called ClearChannel as one person recommended only to be laughed at by the person answering the phone.

So if anyone wants to use vinyl and needs to know where to buy it new drop me a PM and I'll get ya in touch with the material supplier. It IS pricey I should warn you.. its cheaper to use shade cloth.

There was one fella that offered on eplaya some of this mysterious free billboard vinyl but he/she turned out to be too lazy/flaky to UPS any to me. He claimed it was too heavy for him to lift or somesuch. Either way I got no billboard vinyl.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sun May 17, 2009 3:54 pm

I know there's a place right by 80/580 in Berkeley, maybe Albany. I don't know if they give it out when asked.
Doesn't CBS do billboards now?
Here's what a quickee google search netted me in Sacramento. (I refuse to call it Sac.)

http://www.billboardadvertisingca.com/
http://www.yellowbot.com/jacobs-billboa ... to-ca.html
http://www.jacobsbillboards.com/
(Ha! describes the owner as "a second-generation billboard guy."

Timezone LaFontaine · Post by **Timezone LaFontaine** » Mon May 18, 2009 3:35 pm

I feel like someone should mention that applying heat to vinyl can cause the release of some pretty intense toxins. And even if you are smart enough to wear a respirator and work in a well-ventilated area, I think you should still be wary of releasing that stuff into your local vicinity as it pretty much never goes away, gets into the ground water etc.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:08 pm

Timezone LaFontaine wrote:I feel like someone should mention that applying heat to vinyl can cause the release of some pretty intense toxins. And even if you are smart enough to wear a respirator and work in a well-ventilated area, I think you should still be wary of releasing that stuff into your local vicinity as it pretty much never goes away, gets into the ground water etc.

Just to be safe...you may NOT wish to attend Burning Man if such "releases" are an issue to you....Or ask for an Earth Guardian assignment by one of the public burn platforms.

(Softening up the vinyl isn't as bad as burning it...It ALWAYS puts out, though...see "New Car Smell"....)

Â¡Niers! · Post by **Â¡Niers!** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:00 am

Here's a link to an ebay seller's list of tarps.
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/PointOne-Pr ... ec0Q2em322

I've found these tarps here in the Eugene Craigslist on numerous searches.

But, I'm tellin ya....you should really try that low voc pvc glue. You won't be let down.
I used to professionally repair tarps for semi-trailers, using the heat sealing method. It works great for those tarps using a heat gun and a roller. For some reason, I couldn't get a good bond on the billboard tarp material. It just isn't the same stuff. Even though they call that stuff vinyl, IT'S NOT VINYL. But, go ahead.....keep trying.
My dome cover is permanently bonded at the seams. I can't pull that stuff apart, which is exactly what I wanted.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:17 am

Might have some kind of clear coating. If it's anything like this product it's pretty much designed to prevent any kind of bonding, other than mechanical -- www.billboardcoating.com.

The billboard stuff might be free or cheap, but I've never used it because it's way too stiff, and most of what I've seen is too physically degraded and stinky. But whatever blows your skirt up...

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:19 am

Bob wrote:Might have some kind of clear coating. If it's anything like this product it's pretty much designed to prevent any kind of bonding, other than mechanical -- www.billboardcoating.com.

The billboard stuff might be free or cheap, but I've never used it because it's way too stiff, and most of what I've seen is too physically degraded and stinky. But whatever blows your skirt up...

Bob;
you gotta watch using those terms in the same post............some might get "over amped".........

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:31 am

Pounding it might get you somewhere. Pull out your vinyl and just pound it. No, don't stop, pound it some more.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:42 am

Billboard vinyl reminds me of the TPO roofing membrane materials I have used for several years now. To bond smaller sheets of TPO together I use a Hot Air Welder, similar to the ones pictured here : http://www.bestmaterials.com/hot-air-we ... r-516.html

For a first timer if you use a hot air welder I recommend one thing. PRACTICE! You will scorch a few pieces. But when you get the hang of it...you can make some pretty damn awesome things!