Guns, Love Em or Leave Em

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Sat May 16, 2009 7:13 pm

the only viable militia is one composed of people of intellectual integrity from right and left

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun May 17, 2009 5:51 pm

Do you think that they should be able to shoot straight too?

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Sun May 17, 2009 9:18 pm

that and long range too, of course.

**burn** · Post by **burn** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:13 pm

Someone sent THIS to me. HERE is the youtube for it.

It basically states:
Law abiding US citizens bought on average 3,177,256 guns every 3 months in 2008;

and

...bought 1,529,635,000 rounds of ammunition in just the month of December 2008.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:29 pm

Montana and the 14th Amendment.

http://www.sfchron.com/cgi-bin/article. ... 17BCF2.DTL

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:39 pm

Don't be fooled by the gun ownership debate. Big Bang Munitions will always be in the control of the big boys. They will always use superior fire power to supress popular revolts.

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Thu May 28, 2009 8:10 pm

gyre wrote:Montana and the 14th Amendment.

http://www.sfchron.com/cgi-bin/article. ... 17BCF2.DTL

This makes me wonder if a trend is starting with the states versus the federal government. With 14 states in violation of federal drug laws through medical marijuana programs and three challenging federal gun laws, are the states headed toward more self government, or have I just not been paying attention. Anyone?

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Thu May 28, 2009 8:57 pm

Robert E. Lee said that ,if he had known how badly the Federal Gov was going to treat the states in the south, he would never have surrendered. Sherman's march to the sea was meant to crush and demoralize the south. I imagine that GOV will try to make an object lesson out of some state that isn't going along with the program. GOV has made so many mis-calculations in the past, we can only hope that the next one is a doozey

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri May 29, 2009 6:23 am

I'd certainly hope it's the start of "states rights" enforcement, or, re-taking them...........The feds were never meant to have the power they now wield.........State and local level was where the power was meant to center........
And,
where, IMHO, it should be........

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri May 29, 2009 11:38 am

Or it could result in the federal government overruling state restrictions, depending.

They might be forcing them into one position or another.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:18 pm

I don't know what to make of this, except it's a great way to get publicity and fill his church with 2cd amendment devotees. Would I go to that church? You bet, as long as I could wear my cowboy hat too.

Gun-loving pastor to his flock: Piece be with you
AP

Ken Pagano, pastor of New Bethel Church in Louisville, Kentucky, talks, AP â€“ Ken Pagano, pastor of New Bethel Church in Louisville, Kentucky, talks, Wednesday, June 3, 2009, about â€¦
By DYLAN T. LOVAN, Associated Press Writer Dylan T. Lovan, Associated Press Writer â€“ Thu Jun 4, 5:50 pm ET

LOUISVILLE, Ky. â€“ A Kentucky pastor is inviting his flock to bring guns to church to celebrate the Fourth of July and the Second Amendment.

New Bethel Church is welcoming "responsible handgun owners" to wear their firearms inside the church June 27, a Saturday. An ad says there will be a handgun raffle, patriotic music and information on gun safety.

"We're just going to celebrate the upcoming theme of the birth of our nation," said pastor Ken Pagano. "And we're not ashamed to say that there was a strong belief in God and firearms â€” without that this country wouldn't be here."

The guns must be unloaded and private security will check visitors at the door, Pagano said.

He said recent church shootings, including the killing Sunday of a late-term abortion provider in Kansas, which he condemned, highlight the need to promote safe gun ownership. The New Bethel Church event was planned months before Dr. George Tiller was shot to death in a Wichita church.

Kentucky allows residents to openly carry guns in public with some restrictions. Gun owners carrying concealed weapons must have state-issued permits and can't take them to schools, jails or bars, among other exceptions.

Pagano's Protestant church, which attracts up to 150 people to Sunday services, is a member of the Assemblies of God. The former Marine and handgun instructor said he expected some backlash, but has heard only a "little bit" of criticism of the gun event.

John Phillips, an Arkansas pastor who was shot twice while leading a service at his former church in 1986, said a house of worship is no place for firearms.

"A church is designated as a safe haven, it's a place of worship," said Phillips, who was shot by a church member's relative for an unknown reason and still has a bullet lodged in his spine. "It is unconscionable to me to think that a church would be a place that you would even want to bring a weapon."

Phillips spoke out against a bill before the Arkansas General Assembly that would have permitted the carrying of guns in that state's churches. The bill failed in February.

Pagano, 50, said some members of his church were concerned that President Obama's administration could restrict gun ownership, and they supported the plan for the event when Pagano asked their opinion.

Marian McClure Taylor, executive director of the Kentucky Council of Churches, an umbrella organization for 11 Christian denominations in Kentucky, said Christian churches are promoters of peace, but "most allow for arms to be taken up under certain conditions."

Taylor said Pagano assured her the event would focus on promoting responsible gun ownership and any proceeds would go to charity.

"Those two commitments are consistent with the high value the Assemblies of God churches place on human life," she said in an e-mail message.

Pagano is encouraging church members to bring a canned good and a friend to the event. He said guns must be unloaded for insurance purposes and safety reasons.

He said the point was not to mix worship with guns, though he may reference some passages from the Bible.

"Firearms can be evil and they can be useful," he said. "We're just trying to promote responsible gun ownership and gun safety."

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:36 pm

The Lord is my Shepard,,, he will set me free.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:27 pm

You know, cops just don't have a sense of humor in situations like that.
They could have quoted the book of Exodus back to him or something.
Was the guy crazy nonetheless? Seems so, in a crazy world. At least they didn't shoot him with lead.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:29 pm

You know, cops just don't have a sense of humor in situations like that.
They could have quoted the book of Exodus back to him or something.
Was the guy crazy nonetheless? Seems so, in a crazy world. At least they didn't shoot him with lead.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:31 am

At least they didn't shoot him with lead.
At least they didn't shoot him with lead.
I think that the presence of the camera had something to do with that.
I think that the presence of the camera had something to do with that

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:52 am

interesting vid.
why did they have him on the ground?

**burn** · Post by **burn** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:37 am

Cuffing on the ground is a standard control procedure.

He's lucky they didn't put their knee on the back of his head and grind his teeth into the street. Not that I think he deserves that, just some cops are mean.

It concerns me that he asked what the charges were and the reply seemed to be "it doesn't matter".

He is resisting arrest. He is uncooperative. They are required to have and keep control as he is their responsibility while in their custody. SOP says the tasing is acceptable.

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:57 am

haven't watched the video. don't care to.

Tasering someone who is having a seizure, or suffering from M/S can result in serious injury or even death, thru no fault of the person being tasered.

Police and city/county gov't have paid Huge court awards to those being tasered.

**burn** · Post by **burn** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:43 am

The subject is not having a seizure or showing signs of any physical medical issues.

Yes, tasers have been the subject of many financial settlements.

In each situation the officers have to decide which device is justified in a set force continuum program. A taser, mostly less lethal except in extreme cases, gets the subject under control so the officer can then find out if the subject has any medical/mental issues, or suicidal or whatever. If someone is acting crazy or not responding, the officers have to secure their own lives first. I have read many stories where families and subjects were happy the officers used tasers. Before tasers, the officers had the choice of batons, pepperspray, hand to hand combat, or their guns. In many cases, subjects that would have been shot/killed are still alive because the officers now have the less lethal choice. Fact is, it has saved more lives than not.

Of course, this does not have anything to do with the cops out there that are just plain mean and act unconstitutional. There are crappy people in all groups of people.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:18 pm

Winchester Model 1894 Love Em
Put a lot of led down range with two of them. Both made in 1898. They had a long known history supposidly including killing indians.

Sad they don't make them any more. Not very high tec or accurate by today's standards but I like it.

Oldguy · Post by **Oldguy** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:02 pm

The distinctive sound of a round being jacked into a Winchester 12 guage shotgun is effective in stopping a fight. I saw bean bag rounds stop a exercise yard fight when I was in prison.

The guards on top in the "towers" use M-16's and not sniper rifles. Disabling, then lethal aiming points were "procedure".

First day in processing, I heard that an inmate was killed "accidently" by a bean bag to the head. That could have been rumor, but I did see a gang fight stopped with 2 non-lethal rounds. The chief aggressor was hit twice then hustled out of the yard.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:42 am

MozyBonz wrote:Winchester Model 1894 Love Em
Put a lot of led down range with two of them. Both made in 1898. They had a long known history supposidly including killing indians.

Sad they don't make them any more. Not very high tec or accurate by today's standards but I like it.

great guns, in fact.

similar guns are produced, though.

and, they are easily as accurate as you can hold them..........

1" MOA groups are easily attainable with that rifle, and, the vast majority of people can't hold that steady off-hand shooting.

and, without a good rest, and position, holding 1/4" MOA is difficult.

Considering their useful range, with open sights is 200 yds max, that's not much off the mark. wind, angle of attack, and breathing will make as much difference as the inherent accuracy of a rifle like that..........not to mention flinching while squeezing the trigger.......or a target in motion.........

ok, off my soapbox...........

I maintain that the safest place to be when I'm shooting at you, is, where I'm aiming. the bullet will never hit there. But, if you run, I may accidentally flinch and hit you............grin.........

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:05 pm

Here's another gun poll;
http://www.parade.com/news/intelligence ... tening.htm
"Texas may welcome guns into bars" You have to draw the line somewhere. Guns in bars is going way too far. I've been in bars in Chicken Alaska and Apache junction Az that had signs on the door; Gentlemen, Check Your Guns
I've seen what happens when you mix guns and alcohol. Fucking hot lead everywhere

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:55 pm

guns in bars, that's like swimming in chum littered water with sharks.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:38 pm

Or Applebee's luridly described by the press.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:03 pm

hit the 4" circle at 50' twice and the 81/2 x 11 paper a bunch of times. Sigma does better aimed a little high. Two boxed of UMC at $20 each, damn.
My range won't allow silhouette targets, not even vampire targets...what horse shit.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:14 pm

I'm guessing .45ACP?

I like my target to sit above the sight, so, I can see it clearly while firing.
like, the apple is sitting on top of the front sight when it explodes............

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:42 pm

We're making a copy of one of those self checkout machines to shoot at.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:47 pm

great...and a giant Chase credit card too?

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:21 pm

News?
http://www.rense.com/general86/powe.htm