Building green

Post by **mdmf007** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:31 pm

ok folks - I am going to use Eplaya for a completely self serving thread - those of you that know me know that I am a pretty cool guy and kick ass and deserve it now and then.

My parents are retiring (finally) pops 68 and my mother is 65. They wish to sell the family house I grew up in - too big now that it is just them at 6300 feet.

They now wish a 1800 foot home that is totally off the grid (or as much as possible) I have built dozens of homes in my days but now need ideas and products, techniques for this to happen that all can use.

The lot being built on is flat, high bluff waterfront facing southwest on the pacific coast of Washington.

thanks in advance for ideas - begin snark here.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed May 13, 2009 6:02 pm

mdmf007 wrote:ok folks - I am going to use Eplaya for a completely self serving thread - those of you that know me know that I am a pretty cool guy and kick ass and deserve it now and then.

What feeding your Ego is not self serving?

My parents are retiring (finally) pops 68 and my mother is 65. They wish to sell the family house I grew up in - too big now that it is just them at 6300 feet.

No matter what elevation they move the house it will still be the same whether its at 9300 ft or 200 ft.

They now wish a 1800 foot home that is totally off the grid (or as much as possible) I have built dozens of homes in my days but now need ideas and products, techniques for this to happen that all can use.

The lot being built on is flat, high bluff waterfront facing southwest on the pacific coast of Washington.

Oh so now they're going to ruin the viewshed with their retirement mansion overlooking the ocean

thanks in advance for ideas - begin snark here.

It already has and I charge $200 an hour for my green designs!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:22 pm

Oh crap. I should know of resources.

Just to get it out of the way, I'm sure you've looked at any LEED stuff that's applicable.
And I"m going to throw this in, even though it's not really applicable in this case, but if the thread has legs (sniff, sniff) then it might be useful information for later.
There's that insulation made from recycled denim--although I have no clue where you buy that and where you take old denim to have it recycled that way.
Those counter tops of recycled glass are nice. They may become a design cliche, but oh well.
I did read an interesting book about alternative energy technologies that are being worked on right now, but that stuff was larger scale for the most part and not ready for market.
Sounds like a wind turbine might be a good part of the mix. Solar water heating (maybe with some pipes under the floor, for room heating?) or is WA just not going to be worth the expense?
Can you build one floor into the earth for that thermal mass heating?

I don't really know a lot about all this, and I suspect that you know more, but that's my 2 cents.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Wed May 13, 2009 8:24 pm

Have you seen the movie Garbage Warrior?

I'll try to compile some shit and post it here at some point.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu May 14, 2009 9:59 am

Some things for off grid..

Trying to get this place in shape for my daughter when I take the big dirt nap..

We are on septic at this time.. Change this to compost toilets.. Subsurface irrigation for gray waters

Atmospheric water generator.. One company is developing a 12v system..
Most city water systems are on the edge of disaster..

Light tubes/skylight in closets, baths and hallways..

Heavy wind/fire resistant "tile" roof. 100 year roof..

Summer kitchen for summer "or" wood fuel cooking..

I have built a drying room for the laundry..

There is a pantry room in there garage.. I want to install sawdust filled walls.. retro fit it for heat and water damage resistance. Then outfit it to a panic room. Almost a bomb shelter..

A friend put his gun safe in a tight closet.. Then went under the house and put carriage bolt up through the floor of the safe.. The tight closet is so you can not get a chain around it..

That's just a few for getting off grid..

Also work on the landscaping.

As for gardening.. I garden in boxes year around..

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:07 am

Here's some links to solar and wind maps for you. Depending on where in Washington they're going to be will play a big factor in your options. I lived in an off grid place on the coast of Northern Cali. We had to use a combination of wind and solar. The turbine worked great on the coast, mostly on shore wind, pretty steady, and no huge tower to deal with due to no wind obstruction. The solar really shone on the days with no wind as these were usually the sunny days. We also used a solar hot water heater/preheater. Even if February when it was generally the coldest the water out of the panel was usually in the eighties and required very little additional heating from the on demand water heater. Using a wood stove for heat greatly reduced our electrical demands. The downside with Washington is they suck as far as rebates and programs for alt. power. I think the grid tied power is more complicated as far as selling power back to the electrical company. Not sure the details on that though. Simple Geothermal can really help cut your heat costs as well. Bury piping 8' to 10' under the house run slow fans through. Temp is around 55-60 degrees all year round. Helps heat in winter and cool in summer. Cooling might not be such an issue. Site planning and house design will play a huge role as well. Passive solar is your friend. Had friends with a little hothouse on the south side of their house. They would leave the door open between it and the house and it was amazing how much heat this little greenhouse would generate even in the winter.

Washington Solar and Wind Maps:
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/climatechange/gre ... y_maps.htm

kimkankwu · Post by **kimkankwu** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:23 am

mdmf007 wrote:thanks in advance for ideas

recyclable toilet paper

Oldguy · Post by **Oldguy** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:24 pm

Recycle-able TP is a damp washcloth hung on a nail in your outhouse. 3 actually, one to use, one to wash, and one for spare. A bandana has a hundred uses.

Works with clothes also. 3 pairs of pants, 3 shirts, 3 t-shirts, 3 drawers, 3 pair of socks. ["All else is vanity."]

Coats, boots, work clothes, shoes, sandals, loafers, etc... are job or season specific. Extra clothes are a luxury. [ Insert cloke/robe reference here. ]

A small house is better. Easy to heat or cool. Less footprint and easy to replace. Better to put wealth in gold or diamonds, easy to transport and exchange. My house has five rooms: livingroom/parlor, kitchen/diningroom, bedroom, bathroom, and a spare room for storage.

My PG&E bill is less than $20/month for fridge, TV, computer, and lights. Main expenses are mandated: water/sewage at $69/month, garbage at $69/quarter, property tax at $500/year. Internet costs me $7/month. I recycle cans for gas money, I get goods at Craigslist/ Freecycle/ Goodwill/ Thrift Store either free or at very low cost. Food I get at Gleaners and Foodstamps, and I'm growing my own garden ( as a hobby).

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:31 am

6300 sq ft ?!!

oh snap!

a McMansion!

anyway, have you thought about either A: modular pre-built which in some states can be put up on "wheels" so you dont have to pay residential taxes on the property.

the other is Cob Construction which i've been researching for a while and am seriously considering building my next abode myself out of straw bales and mud.

Post by **Sham** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:33 am

How about them going from 6300sf. to something more modest that will allow them to save lots of energy even with conventional appliances.

http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/

There are several designs for small houses that are extremely efficient.

Just imagine how much togetherness your parents will have if they are living in a house this size!

Post by **Sham** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:44 am

Another great idea for you parents is a home built from an old missle silo. This would give them much more room that they have now. It appears to be a normal home from the surface, but all the lower levels have different rooms as you descend down. As I write this, I am thinking that their age would make the stairs a problem, but I am going to post anyway since it is really interesting.

http://www.silohome.com/id22.htm

Again, not the best for older folks, but check out the website above for an amzing reuse of a cold war missle silo!

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:46 am

Shambala wrote:Another great idea for you parents is a home built from an old missle silo. This would give them much more room that they have now. It appears to be a normal home from the surface, but all the lower levels have different rooms as you descend down. As I write this, I am thinking that their age would make the stairs a problem, but I am going to post anyway since it is really interesting.

http://www.silohome.com/id22.htm

Again, not the best for older folks, but check out the website above for an amzing reuse of a cold war missle silo!

are there that many available for sale?
I'd love one with a view........

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:00 am

yeah, but only if you want one near Offutt AFB near Oglalla Nebraska, and quite frankly, there is NOTHING to see in nebraska.

i think they decommed the NIKE system along the Pacific Northwest Coastline in Washington state, so there's a thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ni ... _locations

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:55 pm

Whatever you wind up doing for power (grid-tied, off-grid, whatever) make sure it's super reliable with a backup of some sort. They may wind up needing power for health needs - breathing assistance, keeping medications refrigerated during a heat wave, etc.

The Dilbert Ultimate House project had some interesting (and some silly) concepts - you might take a look at that if it's still online.

In Washington you'll want lots of South-facing windows with an overhanging roof so you get maximum sun in winter, not so much in summer. Shade trees to the South and West for the same reason. I suppose the ones to the West could be sacrificed for views but you'll want some sort of awning or external shades. Whole house fans are good if you don't have a geothermal system.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:59 pm

Elevators can cover a multitude of sins.

You'd have to power them somehow.

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:45 am

Fuel cell to generate your electricity and hot water. (Runs on natural gas) http://www.plugpower.com/products/resid ... ensys.aspx Don't know a lot about this system, but there was a lot of talk by this company about home fuel cells running on H2O. This was before their IPO, when the majority of all of the stocks were bought up by the big oil companies.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:35 pm

Damn - had no clue there were so many Nike Sites, one is about 10 miles from my house now.

Parents kind of like this design scaled down from the 4000 feet shown here. They want about half this size.

http://www.arkinetic.com/arK_DyesInlet.htm

thanks for the tips, ground work began last week for utilities, and drive way.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:37 pm

teepee

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:50 am

A couple of thoughts. Take advantage of all those windows. By incorporating proper placement your parents could use the thermal mass of concrete, ceramic tile, or brick flooring in the areas that get solar exposure. (People actually make pretty cool concrete floors these days) This will store up thermal energy during daylight hours and slowly release it after the sun goes down. Radiant underfloor heating can be used pretty easily with this to suppliment. Couple this with solar curtains so the windows that are your friend by day don't turn into a heat sucking enemy at night. If they don't want to utilize flooring out of any material like this or want to have the giant ocean view, and who doesn't if your living on the coast, they could utilize a trombe, or solar, wall on the south side of the house. http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/36277.pdf
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Sp ... arWall.htm

Oldguy · Post by **Oldguy** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:14 pm

I took a tour of passive solar homes in Davis, California back in 1978. I saw south-facing glass walls, water walls made of black painted 55 gal. stacked drums, stone and concrete floors, massive walls, south-facing eaves that let in low winter sun and shaded high summer sun angles, turf roofs, tile roofs, lime grout instead of mortered joints, cave structures under ground level, and heat pumps from elevator towers and deep water wells, computerized window louvers and window vents and fans. Oh yeah , they had solar cells for power to run pumps, fans, and house current. That was thirty years ago.

Gov't housing codes limit methods and practices...Find a rural place with few or no building codes or inspectors. I used to be a civil engineering major at U.C. Davis. They've got a lot of Green info there.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:11 am

Republicans propose their NEW energy bill.

guess what is new about it?

The paper its written on and that it.

If nuclear power plants were so profitable the private sector would build them, but the truth of matter is, is that they are not.

Oiling in the ANWR should be stopped and the only way to do that is to turn it into a National Park. Read on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/10/us/po ... ef=science

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