Screw radical self reliance, I need a quick solution.

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:29 pm

So I have to take off to start working at our regional, Lakes of Fire, tomorow morning. While I was burrowing though all of my shit I found a bunch of drip irrigation tubing and mist emittors. It's fucking hot here, and not a lovely dry heat like the playa, more like tropical rainforest hot. Any suggestions for something that has worked for you in the past as far as pumps for a misting system that will run off of either a 12v car battery or an invertor, as a generator is not in our camp plans this time out? Unfortunately, I don't have the time to figure this out myself so any examples, tips, or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, SO.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:32 pm

the thing about evaporative cooling, is, the lower the humidity, the better it works........
If it's super humid, misters won't have the same effect as out on the playa.
the cooler the water, the better, but, the idea is evaporation to cool the body.

with high humidity, I'd think air movement will be most effective. Fans.

Just my thoughts, I'm sure there are others more learned that can fine tune my lunacy.........

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:09 pm

It's times like this when you wonder what could be done with a 55-gallon barrel of water, and a 1/4 stick of dynamite? Would the sides of the barrel blow out and eviscerate everyone? Would it shoot a column of atomized water high in the air?

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:14 pm

Go to harbor freight and buy a 12 volt water pump, they work great and they are only about $25-30

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:44 pm

Thanks OED. I didn't even think of harbor freight, and there's one right on the way. I think I can find one that'll work there.

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:05 pm

Dick, always got an answer - we should call you the great Carnac The Magnificent (from the old Tonight Show).

(((Dick)))

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:05 pm

No problem.

I have one from there, they have garden hose ends coming and going, and built in battery alligator clamps on the end
of the wires, just like a battery charger.

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:14 pm

Hey OED, is this the pump you're talking about?

If it is I have a couple of questions. In their description it say max. 10 psi. The emitters that I have are supposed to run "optimally" at 20 psi. I have to think the psi would get ramped up stepping the tubing down from 3/4" to 3/8". Have you used this pump in a similar application? The other thing it says is it will only lift to 23. It doesn't say inches or feet. Feet would work, inches wouldn't. Again I'm not sure if this would be effected by the reduction in size. Any ideas?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:22 pm

SilverOrange wrote:Hey OED, is this the pump you're talking about?

If it is I have a couple of questions. In their description it say max. 10 psi. The emitters that I have are supposed to run "optimally" at 20 psi. I have to think the psi would get ramped up stepping the tubing down from 3/4" to 3/8". Have you used this pump in a similar application? The other thing it says is it will only lift to 23. It doesn't say inches or feet. Feet would work, inches wouldn't. Again I'm not sure if this would be effected by the reduction in size. Any ideas?

IIRC:
PSI is just that........it doesn't care what size pipe you have..........
volume cares. velocity cares, but, I don't think PSI cares.......

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:35 pm

Yeah, I could very well be wrong there. We had a gravity feed water system at my old house. The water tank was up on the side of the mountain and we got increased water pressure down at the house by stepping down the size of the pipe. There was, however, 10000 gallons of water pushing behind it. I was thinking along those same lines.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:46 pm

SilverOrange wrote:Yeah, I could very well be wrong there. We had a gravity feed water system at my old house. The water tank was up on the side of the mountain and we got increased water pressure down at the house by stepping down the size of the pipe. There was, however, 10000 gallons of water pushing behind it. I was thinking along those same lines.

**I am a layman, but..........I hope if I'm wrong, someone will enlighten me, so, I can know for sure.**

yeah, I know what your saying, but, it's pounds per square inch.......and, only square inch............as you drop, you gain about 1/2 lb psi per foot of fall..........

but, if you had a 4" pipe, 40' tall, you have about 20 psi at the bottom (this is approximate, for conversation), if you drilled a 1/2" hole in it, it'd still be 40 psi.
and, if a 1/2" pipe led away from said hole, it'd still be the same.
I think, your thinking that the total weight of the tank of water is sitting on the outlet. I think, though, it's works like a column to the top, sort of.
the gallons don't matter, its the depth that makes the pressure.

I believe velocity is different, and, given enough velocity in a running pipe, stepping down can increase that, and, I'd guess, can influence pressure? that, I'm not sure about......

but, I've been wrong before......

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:43 am

And with a little sleep and a clearer mind, I believe you are totally right. I like my solutions like my women. Easy. Such as life, this one apparently, isn't going to be so easy. Lakes of Fire, here I come, sweaty ass and all. On the bright side, it's only a ten minute drive to Lake Michigan from the event...and we have showers!

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:39 am

I know you can't use this for the mister, but suppose someone has some property with a spring on it and they wanted to move the water from that spring up a hill without power..

Hydraulic ram pumps are a time-tested technology that use the energy of a large amount of water falling a small height to lift a small amount of that water to a much greater height. In this way, water from a spring or stream in a valley can be pumped to a village or irrigation scheme on the hillside.

Depending on the difference in heights between the inlet pipe and the outlet pipe, these water pumps will lift 1-20 percent of the water that flows into it. In general, a ram can pump approximately one tenth of the received water volume to a height ten times greater than the intake. A hydraulic ram pump is useful where the water source flows constantly and the usable fall from the water source to the pump location is at least 91 cm (3 ft).

Since ram pumps can only be used in situations where falling water is available, their use is restricted to three main applications:

lifting drinking water from springs to settlements on higher ground.
pumping drinking water from streams that have significant slope.
lifting irrigation water from streams or raised irrigation channels.
Ram Pump Advantages include:
Inexpensive
Very simple construction and easy to install yourself.
Does not consume petrol, diesel or electricity.
Minimum maintenance.
Pollution free.
Quiet pumping 24 hours per day.
Hydraulic Ram Pump Links
Designing a Hydraulic Ram Pump (Water for the World)
Ram pump History and Design (Center for Alternative Technology - UK)
Hydraulic Ram Book - How & Where They Work (Atlas Publications - North Carolina)
Ram Pump Technical Notes (Dev. Technology Unit - UK)
Build Your own Ram Pump (Clemson University)
Ramp Pump Design Specifications (Institute for Appropriate Technology)
Hydraulic ram pumps Engineering Principles (North Carolina Extension Service)
Hydraulic Ram Pump System Design and Application (Research, Development and Technology Adaptation Center, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia)
Pictures of Ram Pumps (D. Burger - UK)
Ram Pumps (Internet Glossary of Pumps)
Gravi-Chek Pump (Updated Ram Design)
Suppliers of Hydraulic Ram Pumps
Rife Hydraulic Engine Mfg. Co. Inc. (Oldest manufacturer of hydraulic ram pumps - since 1884 - over 22 models, capable of pumping up to 500 feet vertically!)
"Highlifter" and Ram water pumps (Illinois)
Alternative Energy Engineering (California)
Aquatic Ecosystems Inc (Florida)
Folk Ram Pump Supplier (USA)

Sling Pump Links
Rife Hydraulic Engine Mfg. Co. Inc. (Pennsylvania)
Sling Pump
Sling Pump for Agricultural Watering
Several Stream Energy Pumps
Sling Pumps for Sale
Rife Sling Pumps

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:21 am

yes, I suppose, if a person had a spring and it was to low, a system like that would work.......

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:39 am

ygmir wrote:
SilverOrange wrote:Hey OED, is this the pump you're talking about?

If it is I have a couple of questions. In their description it say max. 10 psi. The emitters that I have are supposed to run "optimally" at 20 psi. I have to think the psi would get ramped up stepping the tubing down from 3/4" to 3/8". Have you used this pump in a similar application? The other thing it says is it will only lift to 23. It doesn't say inches or feet. Feet would work, inches wouldn't. Again I'm not sure if this would be effected by the reduction in size. Any ideas?
IIRC:
PSI is just that........it doesn't care what size pipe you have..........
volume cares. velocity cares, but, I don't think PSI cares.......

Yes, the white haired one speaks with thruths unbounded, PSI is a constant.

And 23' is the lift.

I have never used it for misting, but if it doesn't work to make fine spray, adjust your misting tips and it will make good strong drips....the hot people won't care about the difference.
I just looked at my pump and along with the garden hose threading on the outside, it has female threading on the inside, looks like a 3/8" to me.

Be forwarned that this is a noisy little bastard of a pump, but it is cheap.

I am gonna replace the sure-flo pump in my RV with one of these, as the noise will serve as a reminder to turn the pump switch of after bathroom/shower usage also.

When you go to Harbor Freight, there are two of them side by side, I think the other one is $8 more, and I bet it has a higher PSI rating.......

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:52 am

oneeyeddick wrote:
ygmir wrote:
SilverOrange wrote:Hey OED, is this the pump you're talking about?

If it is I have a couple of questions. In their description it say max. 10 psi. The emitters that I have are supposed to run "optimally" at 20 psi. I have to think the psi would get ramped up stepping the tubing down from 3/4" to 3/8". Have you used this pump in a similar application? The other thing it says is it will only lift to 23. It doesn't say inches or feet. Feet would work, inches wouldn't. Again I'm not sure if this would be effected by the reduction in size. Any ideas?
IIRC:
PSI is just that........it doesn't care what size pipe you have..........
volume cares. velocity cares, but, I don't think PSI cares.......
Yes, the white haired one speaks with thruths unbounded, PSI is a constant.

And 23' is the lift.

I have never used it for misting, but if it doesn't work to make fine spray, adjust your misting tips and it will make good strong drips....the hot people won't care about the difference.
I just looked at my pump and along with the garden hose threading on the outside, it has female threading on the inside, looks like a 3/8" to me.

Be forwarned that this is a noisy little bastard of a pump, but it is cheap.

I am gonna replace the sure-flo pump in my RV with one of these, as the noise will serve as a reminder to turn the pump switch of after bathroom/shower usage also.

When you go to Harbor Freight, there are two of them side by side, I think the other one is $8 more, and I bet it has a higher PSI rating.......

hey, who you calling "White haired one"............
I thought I was referred to as: "grey haired, exceptionally sexy with hairy backed ONE"..........

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:11 am

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... _200355686

I don't know anything about this, but I found the above.

JK

Token · Post by **Token** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:35 am

JK rocks!

The pump JK found all integrated into a 26 gallon tank for 100 clams more.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... _200347993