The Long Cold Winter

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Rabbi Dali Rick
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Post by Rabbi Dali Rick » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:04 am

It's starting..

Image



The police have been told to stop all aggression against the state.


Martial Law here we come!





The news even the mainstream news is only reporting the fun fuzzy news and glossing over anything relevant.


1. Gunman in Arkansa kills 11

2. Gun man in Germany kills 15 and self.

3. Cities trading bailout dollars like foodstamps for cash.

4. Troops about to be deployed to Mexican boarder, not to keep people from coming in but to keep people from running out...

5. Unarmed man Killed downtown LA, after defending self against LAPD.

6. Armed man in LA killed after Police attack him, and forcing him to defend his family.

7. Chinese President Hu Jintao urged the military to "staunchly defend" national sovereignty in comments published days after a brief confrontation with a U.S. Navy ship.

8.California is in the midst of a 3-year drought and farmers and cities alike are trying to cope.



the rebbi

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Post by can't sit still » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:52 pm

Dougly, we're losing 650,000 jobs a month. Do you think that stocks might be affected?
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

can't sit still
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Post by can't sit still » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:26 pm

"foreigners - and not just the Chinese - are losing their taste for U.S. debt. Global investors sold $148 billion more U.S. debt than they bought", which I assume was for the year." Mogambo

This is a good article about corporations themselves. Reportedly, as a corporation grows, it has to suck life out of the producing economy.
"The thing that is dying—the corporatized model of commerce—has not, nor has it ever been, supportive of the real economy. It wasn’t meant to be"
http://www.arthurmag.com/2009/03/16/let ... e-economy/

"China’s central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund."
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/7851925a-17a2-1 ... nse.com%2F

The PTB are trying to consolidate and control. They just don't get it. The system just gets too big and too unwieldy. If we have a capitalist economy, it crashes from abuse and overproduction. A command economy is a complete lost cause.
We did OK while we had a regulated free market. Once they screwed it up, it went to hell. Rather than return to logical regulations, they want to go global to centralize control. It just won't work.
The NWO is over reaching. They're going to try very hard. We're going to die really fast.
The dream of a corporatist society is pathetic and inhuman.
Dan
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

can't sit still
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Post by can't sit still » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:06 am

Well, you may have noticed that the FED is producing "money" out of thin air. Then, the US GOV sells treasuries to the FED. Now, the FED says that they are going to buy $ 300 billion of GOV bonds. The US GOV needs to sell about $ 2.5 billion a day in bonds to survive. OK, but, the problem is that GOV has had a net outflow from treasury to the amount of $ 148 billion this year, just in bonds.
So, apparently the FED is going to make up the difference of outflow caused by bond redemptions and failed auctions. They're going to buy $ 300 billion. But, wait a minute,,, aren't we paying $ 450 billion interest on our own money to the FED every year? Aren't we paying $ 1.4 billion a day in interest on our public debt also ?

Obama wants to do $ 100 billion in tax cuts. But wait, GOV income is going down anyway;

2007: 2.568 Trillion
2008: 2.183 Trillion
2009: 1.618 Trillion
2010: 1.387 Trillion
2011: 1.027 Trillion
So, the cost of GOV is going way up. GOV wants to borrow $ 3 trillion or so. The income of GOV is going down.
Foreigners are buying way fewer bonds. The FED said that it would buy $ 680 billion or so of toxic assets. How long can the FED print unlimited "money" ?

If you look at the flow of funds, GOV is losing ground daily. How long can that go on? China says that they will continue to buy treasury debt. Who knows if that is true or not.
The old saying is that you "never cause a panic in finances or currency." But, that saying is followed by another; " if you cause a panic, make sure that you're the first to the exit"
Even if China continues to buy bonds, they can't possibly buy enough to keep us afloat. Also, they expect to have 100 million unemployed. They have to choose between feeding 100 million nationals or buying US bonds. Besides that, their previously purchased bonds are depreciating at 15---18 % a year.

GOV is on the road to insolvency. If the FED gave them $ 300 million but charges $ 450 million interest, it's not going to help much. The US has had a net outflow from treasury bonds. This doesn't include interest of $ 1.4 billion a day.
If GOV can't sell bonds or collect taxes, it can't service it's foreign debt. Everybody knows that it can never repay it, but, they haven't yet figured out that we can't service it much longer either. When it becomes more obvious, the world will try to cut it's losses and run for the exits.
Don't stand in the doorway.
Dan
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

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Post by can't sit still » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:17 pm

Here are some quotes from the "Daily Reckoning"
" we say the United States can pay off its debts in a currency whose value it alone controls...
But what if it weren't true? What if the feds couldn't control the value of the dollar? What if inflation didn't happen - at least, not the way we all expect?"
"
But just because you add to the money supply doesn't mean prices MUST rise. Instead, it means only that that MAY rise...under certain conditions."

Japan is an interesting exception;
"First, the authorities ran a steady double-digit growth in the money supply for over a decade, while the Japanese banks were initially in denial, and then the government injected nearly 10% of GDP directly into the banks' capital bases. Yet even after money as a proportion of GDP had doubled, Japan's banks were still shrinking lending.

"The Bank of Japan, believing it had perhaps just lacked imagination, doubled M1 money supply again, this time over the much shorter period of two to three years from 2001."

This is roughly equivalent to the Fed spending not $1 trillion to buy up Treasury paper, but $10 trillion.

"Yet the impact on Japanese bank lending was...nothing," James continues. "Bank lending continued to fall by 5%-6% a year, as it had done for the prior three years."

James lived in Japan for many years. He reports that when the Japanese economy finally began to pick up in 2006, the government became very concerned that all that money it had put into circulation would suddenly turn into consumer price inflation. But it didn't happen. Instead, the little flower of growth was crushed in the downturn of '07-'08...and now Japanese prices seem to be headed down again."


The plan is to trash the dollar to make it easy to repay our debt.

"They want to lower the debt burden by instigating inflation. They want to increase the velocity of money - by lightening it up a little so people are eager to get rid of it. They want to get lenders lending, and consumers consuming - all eager to turn over their dollars as fast as possible. They want to shift the burden of losses from the people who made them to the people who didn't. Well, what if the dollar doesn't cooperate? What if it grows heavier? What if it seems more solid? And what if dollar-denominated debts sticks like tar to the people who incurred it?

Seems impossible, doesn't it? And yet, that is what happened in the Land of Rising Sun. "

"And when the Fed monetizes debt, it's not as if it buys it directly from mom and pop. Who owns the debt? Well, the biggest holder is China. When the Fed buys U.S. Treasury debt from China, the cash doesn't automatically fall into the U.S. consumer slipstream.

The Chinese could horde the money. Or they could use it to buy U.S. businesses - big business, such as GM and Caterpillar. In effect, what the Fed is really doing is facilitating a massive transfer of real wealth - from America to foreigners. By holding up the price of U.S. Treasuries (by buying them itself) the Fed is funneling cash to the foreign owners. The foreigners then redeem the cash for major U.S. assets (at low prices).

Maybe that was the deal the feds worked out with the Chinese. Or maybe these are just the collateral and unforeseen consequences of a foolish plan. We don't know. But it doesn't necessarily put a lot of extra cash on the street.

And then, even if it were on the street, it may not stay there for long. The feds can put in a lot more money. It doesn't mean it necessarily chases consumer products and drives prices higher. In fact, in a real depression, people tend to hoard money. They save. The more fearful they are, the more they squeeze their coins and clutch their bills. Instead of circulating freely, money disappears into drawers, bank vaults, and billfolds. Let's say the feds add a colossal sum - $10 trillion - to the dollar money supply. Even that could quickly be stashed away...in pockets...bank vaults...business holdings. Remember, most of it is in electronic form. What difference would it make to consumer prices if every account holder added a zero or two?

Our old friend John Mauldin sends this comment:

"On the Fed printing money: there is one small thing to watch. What if they print it, put it in the banks and then the banks instead of lending it to each other at 1.25% in LIBOR decide to deposit it at the Fed for .25% because they are worried about security and counter-party risk, which is a lot of the reason Fed reserves have exploded. They could print $5 trillion and if it all goes back to the Fed then where is the inflation? We need to pay close attention to where the money goes."

GOV is trying their damnedest to stop deflation. So far, it's not working. WE refuse to incur more debt.
The whole Keynesian economic idea is shit. This was proved in the '70s when we had stagflation. Prices went up even when there was economic stagnation.

This is from Puru Saxena;
" However, even now, total credit in the United States is expanding due to rampant borrowing by the U.S. government. So, I don't expect deflation to take hold; rather, I anticipate accelerating inflation, which has always led to rising asset and consumer prices."
" If history is any guide, nations that engage in monetary inflation always diminish the purchasing power of their currency"

This from Robert Murphy;
"This Keynesian orthodoxy was shattered in the 1970s when the United States suffered through "stagflation," which was high unemployment and high inflation. This outcome was not supposed to be possible, according to the popular macroeconomics models"
"As with stagflation during the 1970s, hyper-depression will blow up the prevailing "cutting edge" models of the macroeconomy."
" The 1970s proved that the Fed cannot fix structural problems with the economy by showering it with new money. Hyper-depression is simply stagflation squared."

While GOV is working to trash the dollar, other countries are agitating to dump it. Even Geitner acknowledged that there would probably be a new currency that would displace the dollar.
This is a site called "The Burning Platform" It has a lot of info and graphs,,,, and a lot of Thoreau. He advocates letting the whole thing crash down rather than enslaving our kids.
http://theburningplatform.com/economy/w ... -the-world

I think that the bankers have a great plan to put all of us over a barrel for a long time.
Dan
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

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Post by can't sit still » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:14 pm

Geithner has said that we 'shouldn't waste a good crisis" Well, the crisis didn't just appear out of thin air. Geithner, as head of the New York FED and Greenspan as chairman of the FED were directly responsible for engineering the crisis.
So, what does he mean by "waste a crisis"? I'm sure that the private european banks that control the FED would like to eliminate all other banking competition. What if there's more to Timmy"s crisis plans? He already let slip that there was much talk about a new reserve currency. I'm sure that the european bankers would like to see a global currency. They're already talking up the special drawing rights of a world currency created by the IMF.

China seems to be on the bandwagon. Normally, China wouldn't have much imput. BUT, as I mentioned in the post above, the bond-money inflows to the US treasury have reversed to an outflow. The US can't possibly service it's debt much longer.

The G-20 is meeting april 2nd. It's only a short meeting that's not expected to produce very much. What if the plan is already in place and the meeting is just to make the announcement? What if his slip of the tongue was a reflection of a "done deal"? Since the US treasury bond market is net loss, maybe the US has been forced to accept the loss of the reserve currency status of the dollar? That would probably be preferable to going into default.
If the dollar was dropped as the international currency, to save the US GOV from default, it would eventually be the end of empire America.

Chang argues pretty persuasively that American business is carrying too much debt to recover.
http://www.rense.com/general85/melt.htm
I don't really know. BUT, without a recovery of the productive sector of the economy, GOV WILL default. The BRIC countries are pretty tired of the mess we've made of the global economy. They want stability and the credit-for-war economy doesn't do it.
If they can force the US dollars back to the US, it will go a long way to bringing an end to the endless war-economy. The US can only make war on credit.
Obama has promised to cut the deficit by 50 %. Somehow, I don't think he's going to do it willingly. It's possible that our creditors are willing to forgive part of our debt if we avoid default and renounce the war spending.
This friday should be interesting.
Dan
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:10 am

can't sit still wrote:Dougly, we're losing 650,000 jobs a month. Do you think that stocks might be affected?
They cut jobs to save money. In many cases, layoffs mean higher stock prices.

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Post by can't sit still » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:00 am

For the last few years, most credit was produced by securitization. That market is 100 % dead. Now, GOV is trying to provide credit to keep the bubble inflated. The problem is that GOV is controlled by Wall Street and the credit from GOV is only provided to banks.
The bubble blowing is by nature, inflationary. But, because the money is locked in the financial system not the general economy, inflation hasn't hit the general economy very hard. They're blowing like hell to try to reinflate instruments but, nobody is fooled.

There is a practical limit to just how much credit GOV can create. The banks are so worried about themselves that they don't give a shit about the general economy. That will definitely come back to bite them later.
But what about GOV? The banks don't seem to care about GOV either. The bankers are "forcing" GOV [you and me] to assume enormous promissory debt. What if it can't be serviced? We already know that it can't be repaid. What if we just can't pay all the commitments that we've been saddled with? What if we default?

"Keep in mind, the United States defaulted on its debt in 1933 when Roosevelt took office and pulled the country off the gold standard, thus, shrugging off the claims of foreign investors who were assured the US would honor its obligations in gold. The dollar plummeted. Bernanke's muddled strategy has the nation walking down that same path once again."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... leId=13077
Dan
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can't sit still
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:23 am

" budget deficit increased by $192.3 billion in March, and is near $1 trillion just halfway through the budget year"
"The March deficit was nearly four times the size of the imbalance in the same month last year."
" tax revenues have totaled $989.8 billion, down 13.6 percent from the year-ago period."
"Government outlays totaled $1.95 trillion through March, 33.4 percent higher than the year-ago period"
"Obama's budget proposals would produce $9.3 trillion in deficits over the next decade, a figure $2.3 trillion higher than estimates made in February"
You say that there has been a $ 2.3 trillion increase since an estimate 2 months ago.
:?:
"1.75 trillion this year, the gap between spending and tax revenues will dip to $1.17 trillion in 2010, and plunge to $533 billion in 2013."
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090410/D97FPQ380.html
OK, lets look at this. Tax revenues are falling off a cliff,,, along with the economy. ALL of the predictions from GOV have been way too optimistic. The next bailout for the banks is already in the works. Obama increased the defense spending. Foreign investors are liquidating bonds rather than buying them.

OK, so no big surprise. GOV is going to print it's way out of the problem. Apparently, GOV is going to try a "Magic Hat" trick. They'll print $ trillions for the bond market but, try to keep it out of the domestic market. If I read it correctly, they want to cause hyper-inflation in the bond market to make debt service EASY. At the same time, they want to keep inflation to a minimum in the domestic market so that he can get re-elected.
It will be a pretty good trick if it works. He'll shaft the foreign investors but keep the voters 'happy"
Who knows,,, maybe it will work.
Cuba has 2 currencies; The Peso and the convertible Peso. Nationals spend the peso and tourists spend the convertible peso. Tourists buy the convertible Peso for about 10 times the rate of the Peso.

If Ben and Timmy hyper-inflate the bond market, the Chinese are screwed either way. If they dump dollars, the crash wipes out their remaining dollars. If they don't exit, they get repaid with severely devalued dollars.
China has no water. They can't afford to piss off the west until they are solidly based in Africa or South America to lock in food supplies.
What a mess!!
Dan
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

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Post by can't sit still » Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:44 am

This article is an articulate , intelligent assessment of the reasons behind the actions of the central banks;
http://seekingalpha.com/article/133589- ... ource=feed
The problem is that, he tries to project the future without taking into account the causes of the collapse.
The law of supply-and-demand is kicking ass. The US supplied demand by spending 80 % of the savings of the rest of the world. We built too much of everything. It wasn't just Starbucks that was in oversupply. We now have to spend what we earn. The industrial capacity of the US is being utilized at only 65 %.
Europe has had to shut down much of their industry. As capitalism marches on in it's ruthless quest for efficiency, it continually diminishes it's pool of potential clients by making them redundant.
The world has a huge oversupply of willing producers but, a shortage of solvent consumers.
Japan has lots of labor and few resources. They can't escape their recession. Russia has lots of resources and they bounced back rapidly from their default and the collapse of the USSR. There is lots of demand for resources but not for labor. Unless that labor is willing to work for slave wages.

Keynesian economics says to put the excess labor to work for GOV and tax the shit out of the the rest to pay for it. The pool of producers is shrinking to the point where it can't keep up with the demands of GOV.
The economy is in the process of shrinking back to a size that is commensurate with the actual productivity of the country. GOV refuses to scale-back to this reality. California is proposing a $ 16 billion tax increase so that GOV won't have to cut back.
Of course, the ballot measure fails to mention, even once, the word "TAX"

GOV has no intention of willingly shrinking itself to fit the economic picture of the country. At the same time, GOV is unwilling to admit that the economy has shrunk in the face of worldwide competition. GOV is under the delusion that if it spends $ trillions of our kids and grandkids money, they can resuscitate the economy back to where it was. This is a gross denial that the rest of the world doesn't need us or demand our products like they did 30 years ago.
GOV is going to "kickstart" the economy. In actuality, GOV is going to kick the shit out of the economy with increasing taxes to fund all kinds of non-producing ideas.

Socialism has never worked. Our would-be-rulers only recognize what they can put down on paper. Marx laid out a brilliant thesis. He neglected to take into account that many facets of humanity cannot be qualified or quantified.
No government or leader can "produce" ingenuity or incentive or motivation or confidence or happiness or prosperity........ out of thin air.
They have to be produced with honesty and hard work.
GOV believes in honesty and hard work all right. BUT, only for you. Since GOV is a non-producer, it can't allow a thorough examination of it's actions.

SO, we have runaway GOV sucking the lifeblood out of the economy. At the same time, we have the economy shrinking back to a size that is commensurate with the actual markets that we need and are able to supply. The world has 3 billion people who are willing to work for far less than americans. Our employment rate was kept high with borrowed money. We sent away our good jobs.
I don't see any reason why our rate of employment should be above 65---70 %. Obama wants to stimulate the economy. None of the stimuli will result in wealth-creation,,,, just spending down what we already have.
Japan has spent $ trillions on stimuli. As long as there is a huge oversupply of labor, it will never work.
In the face of a very different world, GOV is going to stick with the same old shit.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

can't sit still
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Post by can't sit still » Fri May 01, 2009 4:52 pm

This is a good article postulating what actions our GOV will take.
http://ashizashiz.blogspot.com/2009/04/ ... ation.html
The author claims that GOV wants to do a changeover from a war economy to a peace economy as was done after WW II.
It sounds like a good plan. The problem is that, after the war, the US had most of the world's manufacturing capacity. Presently, there is a huge oversupply of manufacturing capacity worldwide.
I fail to see a manufacturing niche that the US can exploit to pull itself up out of depression. Japan hasn't found one. Sure, we have stem-cell research but, it's going to take more than that to re-incarnate our industry.
If we're going to continue to import stuff, we have to have something to export. What can we manufacture that the BRIC countries can't manufacture cheaper?
We need to continue to import oil. GOV doesn't want to open up Gull Island, AK or the Baken field in the Dakotas or the offshore oil.

Mexico will run out of oil in just 3--4 years. They're our second biggest supplier. Saudi is far lower on oil than they let on. Russia is going to control the Caspian Basin. Iran has lots of new [and old] discoveries.
Obama says that he will cut the deficit by 50% in a few years. He can't do that if we have wars in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq AND Iran. Maybe ,toss in Somalia,,, they have oil. Maybe Venezuela too.
The FED is creating about $ 90 billion a month. That can't go on forever. If China can convince the world that the Yuan is a reliable alternative to the dollar, the price of oil [in dollars] will go up out of sight.
Wait and see.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

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Post by Toolmaker » Sat May 02, 2009 3:21 am

http://www.ifc.com/new-world-order/

Alex Jones on cable.. free on IFC on demand as well.

Just thought I'd share.
This account has been closed as demanded by Wedeliver.

can't sit still
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Post by can't sit still » Thu May 07, 2009 7:17 pm

Everyone is guessing where this will go and when it will end. I found an interesting paper;
http://seekingalpha.com/article/135566- ... -no-return
"New research by the Federal Reserve and Boston University of credit spreads of 900 non-financial companies from 1990-2008 predicted changes in the economy 'phenomenally' well."
There's so much BS and propaganda out there, i try to look for someone with a good track record for accuracy.
"the researcher's model predicts the economy will lose another 7.8 million jobs by the end of 2009, and industrial production will fall another 17%"
Consummate BULLSHIT from CITI ; "Citigroup said it made $1.6 billion. One of the ways Citigroup achieved this gain was booking a profit of $2.7 billion on the decline in Citi's (C) own debt. Say what?
"Without these one-time adjustments, Citi's $1.6 billion in first quarter profit becomes a $2.8 billion loss." Gee, what a surprise.

There are very good arguments that the FED is the only thing keeping the credit markets from a total crash;
http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/05/o ... dikes.html

The situation was created by too much credit. Now, they're trying to remedy it with more credit. We were already up to our eyeballs in credit. Dumb fuck bankers would like us to believe that credit is the same as capital.

It's become fairly obvious that the US can't survive without manufacturing. I've been writing that the US worker has priced himself out of the global-wage market. Now, I believe that to be untrue. The worker isn't near as overpaid as the management. It used to be that the owner made 30 times as much as the worker. Now, it has morphed to many multiples of that So, US managers make far more than his Japanese counterpart. Is that the reason that we aren't competitive?

I started looking at the labor component of a product. It's generally accepted that 50 % of the cost of a "widget" is for upstream financing. 50 % is a big chunk. But, GOV spends 36 % of the GDP. So, lets say that tax contributes 15 % of the cost. It's probably closer to 35 %. It's close to 80 % for gasoline. Then, we have the cost of materials and energy to produce the "widget",,,, say 8 %.

GOV and banks account for far more of the cost than the labor.
Recently, most central banks have lowered the prime rate to close to .25 % When one does it, the others have to follow or all the 'hot money" flows into the country with the highest interest. If the US ever hopes to be competitive, GOV and banking are going to have to stop sucking the lifeblood out of the economy.
Japan has had 18 years of recession. Why should the US be any different.

There can't be any meaningful escape from the depression until we revive manufacturing AND have markets. Without markets, the job picture won't improve,, neither will the P/E in the stock market. As long as we carry the heavy load of the bloodsuckers, there won't be an exit.
In 1920, we went into a severe recession. GOV cut it's expenditures in half and we came right out. We have history to prove that everything that GOV is doing is wrong.
Don't expect a change with the banks running the country.
:cry:
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can't sit still
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Post by can't sit still » Sun May 10, 2009 3:46 pm

Market Oracle has a pretty good track record on it's predictions.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10550.html
"Just last week, the $3.5 Trillion 2010 budget was passed by the US Congress, The new administration, in conjunction with the public servants in Congress, have now FINISHED expanding the government by more than 95% in less than 10 months after being sworn in January 2009. "
" The US now needs to raise $3.25 Trillion this fiscal year to cover its budget deficit and to ROLL past obligations coming due. This amounts to a staggering $21.95 BILLION PER DAY until the end of the fiscal year in October"

So, GOV has grown 95 %. That definitely gives me the creeps. :x
"The new $3.5 Trillion deficit for 2010 is funded half from TAXES and 49% from NEW BORROWING."
"The Treasury International Capital Report was released for February, and for the second month in a row, was negative to the tune of $97 Billion, marking the continued retreat of capital from US shores."

OK, so GOV is planning to tax people who have no earnings. GOV is going to borrow from people [the world] who have already quit loaning money to us.

The scary part of this is that the Austrian School of economics accurately predicted ALL of this. Anyone with half a brain can see that Keynesian economics is nothing but a dead end. GOV is pursuing Keynesian economics because it affords the most power to GOV.
So," Change we can believe in" Prefers to follow a demonstrably failed system. This same action, taken by previous administrations took us closer and closer to the cliff.

The difference now is that we are at the edge of the cliff. GOV would prefer to take us off a cliff rather than allowing another driver to control the system.

The FED is aiding and abetting all of this,,, even actively promoting it. Since the FED is just a group of European banks, one has to wonder about their desired end-game. Is the FED creating $ trillions out of thin air out of desire or desperation? I'm starting to believe that the FED went into this with a 19th or 20th century mindset.
Destroy competing banks and buy up everything at fire-sale prices.

I don't think that it is going to work out that way. Much of the wealth of the world is tied up in bonds. So much of the world's wealth has been invested in bonds that, the producing economy has suffered. Eventually supply-and-demand will demand equilibrium.
We already see China trying to move out of instruments and into tangibles. It is expected that there will be a grand exodus from bonds by the end of summer. There is too much of a supply of bonds for them to be converted into tangibles. Anytime that this amount of money descends into commodities, it causes so much price inflation that it locks up the market.

Millions of investors are trying to find a safe place to put their money. They buy short-term treasuries as a haven. With all the money printing, it's only a matter of time until the bond buyers drive up the interest rate or refuse to buy. At some point, GOV will have to default.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

can't sit still
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Post by can't sit still » Thu May 14, 2009 6:35 pm

I'm trying to put some ideas together into a complete picture. In 1967 when GOV invested $1 into the economy, the GDP grew $1. <18> months ago, GOV had to invest $7 in the economy to get $1 increase in GDP. It was borrowed money. It has to be payed back. It's obviously bad business practice to invest money into an enterprise with diminishing returns.
A few years ago, the private sector threw tons of money at the emerging DOT COM enterprise. Because very little wealth was produced from such a large investment, it crashed. The South Sea bubble was much the same.
On and off, investors threw money at the stock market. It only paid off for the few lucky insiders [adjusted for inflation]
later, investors threw tons of money at the housing market. It didn't produce commensurate wealth, so was unsupportable. Then, tons of money went to commodities. It went bust when the economy couldn't produce the wealth to support the higher prices.
It's been proved time and again that investing huge amounts of money into non-producing enterprises will eventually bring about a crash.
Now, we have GOV throwing the largest amount of money ever tossed at a problem. $ trillions to the banks who are NOT producers. At best, they're facilitators or part of the service economy. At worst, they're just parasites. Trillions to the banks knowing that there will be no wealth creation forthcoming. GOV WAS spending $ 7 to get a $ 1 dollar increase in GDP. Now, they're spending far more without any hope of actually creating anything.
http://www.rense.com/general85/bubble.htm
GOV, having the mindset of a parasite, isn't capable of creating wealth,,, only debt. The producing economy is suffering from too much competition and a huge leech attached to the jugular. Imagine the "rust belt" spreading to more of the country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Belt
GOV is committing $ trillions to the banks. That won't make America competitive.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

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Post by can't sit still » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:10 pm

There are several writers that believe that we 're headed to a currency crisis... soon.

"October 2008 and ends in October 2009, the federal government is already showing a deficit of $803 billion, "

"And if you look at the size of the Treasury Gross Public Debt, it shows that the federal government has, cumulatively since 1776, borrowed and spent $11,285.5 billion, whereas at this time last year (twelve short months ago!), the national debt was "only" $9,373.4 billion."

""the federal government already deficit-spent $1.912 trillion in the last Twelve Freaking Months"
Mogambo Guru

This obviously doesn't agree with the figure of 803 billion. It's not the exact same time period but, it is the same duration.


"Your family's share of the government debt is now over half a million dollars. A record $546,668, to be exact.
Given our spending record so far in 2009, it's safe to say your family's burden is already much, much larger. "
Bill Bonner

"This month we had a major theme "Death of the Dollar" here we stated,

"First, it is important to define our terms, and in this, our meaning is
clear: we do not see the U.S. dollar going to absolute zero before some type of new monetary system is attempted. However, we are very clear that the debate for us is beyond the inflation or deflation mode; as stated previously, it is based upon a currency crisis and that is simply that the"
Dave Morgan,,, Morgan report.

http://www.realitysandwich.com/money_an ... vilization
Here is a good quote that reflects the true situation;
"The first government response, the bailout, was an attempt to uphold a tower of money that is far beyond the total value of real goods and services it promises to redeem."
We're enslaving our children to produce future goods and services to fulfill todays debts.

"government is investing $70 billion of taxpayer money in a company that the market currently values at only $457 million!" GM
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/05/mona- ... nklin.html
This isn't an investment. It's also not sustainable.

The East doesn't believe our bullshit anymore;

"Chinese assets are very safe," Geithner said in response to a question after a speech at Peking University, where he studied Chinese as a student in the 1980s.
His answer drew loud laughter from his student audience"
http://www.gata.org/node/7461

The Argentines have been in a few currency crises;


They expect a new currency to appear here.

Everything that GOV does is just a postponement... and a screwing. GOV says that each family owes $ 1/2 million to save the banks. Bringing in a new currency will only allow GOV to screw foreigners a bit more. It won't fix the basic problems.
We're in deep shit
Dan
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Post by can't sit still » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:18 am

Well, the Illuminaughty are showing their hand;


US Fed Chairman demands plan to cut social programs


By Barry Grey

Global Research
wsws.org


Testifying Wednesday before the Budget Committee of the House of Representatives, Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke demanded that Congress and the Obama administration map out a program of austerity measures to bring down record budget deficits. Bernanke made clear that the heart of this program should be sharp cuts in social spending, including basic entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare.

So, social programs are on the cutting block,,, no mention of military spending.


“Maintaining the confidence of the financial markets,â€
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Post by can't sit still » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:32 am

I can't find any independent corroboration for the article above. I'm kinda glad for that.

The current news is a report that the mints are about to be caught for selling precious metals that they don't have. http://jsmineset.com/2009/06/11/time-for-delivery/
Since so much of our economy is dependent on the psychology of consumers, GOV is doing everything it can to paint a rosy picture. Gold is more important to psychology that it is to the actual economy. It's actually a very small part of the world supply of commodities.

Recently, Germany decided to take delivery of all their thousands of tons of gold,,, most of it stored in New York. Various Arab countries who had historically stored their gold in London just called for physical delivery. In an effort to keep the dollar from being devalued, the US has continually tried to depress the price of gold. They loaned out US gold to the bullion banks to sell and swap. They readily admit that they still carry that same quantity of gold on their books as an asset.

The US had 4 billion ounces of silver. JFK used that silver to back United States notes that he briefly printed and circulated. He was killed a few weeks later and LBJ stopped the printing. Then the silver was sold off so that nobody could challenge the legitimacy of the FED again.
It's generally admitted that there is about 6 times as much "paper" silver as real physical silver,,, same for gold. Since so many parties are calling for delivery of physical metal, the mints are running short. Sooner or later, this will cause a panic and the vaults will be empty. To forestall this possibility, GOV approved the creation of electronically traded metal investment companies. That way, metal demand could be deflected from physical to paper. The etf "SLV" is so active that they regularly buys tons of physical silver to hold in their vaults in custody for their investors,,, or so they claim.

SLV will report that they acquired so many tons of silver but you never see a corresponding move OUT of some other vault . If you call MONEX or one of the mints, they too will be very happy to take your money. BUT, if you want physical delivery, they make it very difficult. If you take possession of a 1,000 oz silver bar, you can't resell it unless it is assayed. This has allowed the silver brokers to sell metal that they don't have. The Germans and the Arabs just got too nervous.
COMEX is siting on many tons of gold. Problem is that they have been selling way too much. Much of COMEX gold is allocated and can't be sold. They sold too much and came up short several months ago to deutches bank.

At one time, the US dollar was backed by gold. This made it next to impossible to make wars. The Viet-Nam war was what caused the US to go off the gold standard.
Now, it is claimed that the US dollar is backed by our industrial capacity Just as we got rid of our gold and silver, we've sent away much of our industrial capacity. The dollar is now considered to be way overvalued. If / when it is adjusted, we can expect to pay much more for imports,,, especially petroleum.

The Euro is also backed by Europe's industrial capacity. It's having problems too; http://dailyreckoning.com/is-the-euro-doomed/ Freidman said that no currency like the Euro had ever survived. Fiat currencies like the dollar usually last 30--40 years. The fiat US dollar is 38 years old.
When the mints finally run out of precious metals that have been way oversold, that could push several currencies off the cliff. It won't be pretty.
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:36 pm

Well, GOV got a real clear lesson on what happens to the economy when energy prices spike upwards. Many claim that the spike last year was what pushed the collapse of the financial markets. GOV isn't at all ready to test that theory. The price of Oil is starting to rise. GOV doesn't want any bad news on the horizon. SO, GOV has a plan to take sweet crude our of the strategic petroleum reserve,,,, sell it and,, replace it with sour crude. There's almost no difference in price but, that's what some in congress want to do.
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot. ... g-oil.html
It sounds like desperation to me. The FED and the treasury are working overtime to try to get some inflation. Then when it appears, they try to drive it away. The banks REALLY hate deflation but, the consumers are thinking that it is kinda cool. The banks were sincerely hoping for a wage-price spiral,,, minus the wage part. They were also hoping that you would go out and borrow back the capital that they had stolen from you. YOU are being very uncooperative about taking on new debt.

If the banks can't somehow drive up the price of RE that they are holding [your loans] , you may very well decide to send them "jingle mail" The banks are in the unenviable position of trying to drive up the price of RE that is in oversupply and drive down the price of oil that is in limited supply. GOV too would like to keep the price of oil down low,,, but, then they go and piss off Iran and Venezuela and start the war birds circling.
Seems that THEY have conflicting agendas.

The FED is trying to keep the dollar strong at the same time that it is printing them up by the trillions. Bernanke said that he would never monetize the debt. The history of GOV for the last 30 years was to postpone any kind of financial reckoning. The clock is ticking. The players are desperate. The world is watching.
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:36 am

Because we all need to chill out from time to time:

Image

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Post by can't sit still » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:32 pm

Dougly, you're absolutely right. No argument there. While I'm sure that I come across a bit strident, I find that nobody wants to face this stuff.
It's a good idea to keep in mind that several people, groups and institutions predicted this collapse. We also must remember that a big percentage of the pessimists underestimated the severity of the fall. The few pessimists [actually realists] who were correct, like Mises and Celente are calling for riots and revolution.
Then it becomes serious, rather than just tiresome. 8)

So, either you believe that the pessimists are going to reach the end of their so-far-proven accuracy or you believe that riots and revolution aren't going to be any big deal. This isn't meant as an accusation....just an observation. I feel that, philosophically, I owe it to mah felllow Burners to point out an approaching problem.
The more people who are prepared,,,, the fewer people that YGMIR and I are going to have to take care of.

BTW, the big ice cube is nice. I drove the "Icefields Parkway" twice. http://www.icefieldsparkway.ca/
I took the "inside passage" twice. http://www.alaska-in-pictures.com/insid ... os-cat.htm
I also drove around the Kenai peninsula 7 times. It's full of glaciers and volcanoes. http://www.wildnatureimages.com/Kenai%20Peninsula.htm

I have a sizable area in my soul reserved for tranquility. I can slide back in there for an escape,,, chill.
Dan
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Post by can't sit still » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:51 pm

Here's a guy that i've been reading for a while http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/06/trium ... ealth.html He seems to be real smart. He also seems to attract comments that are very well thought out. He appears to be a "gold big" so one would expect some gloom and doom. In this post, he talks about signs that may appear to show that the PTB have decided to do the "final takedown"

"So how will we know when the end is near? When Helicopter Ben comes under attack for being too tight with the printing press, the end is near. When helicopter drops are not enough to satisfy the beast, the end is near. When the US borrows more in one week than it did in an entire year seven years prior, the end is near. When scorched earth self-preservation tactics, in-your-face theft of public funds, and outright corruption is done in broad daylight without fear of reprisal, the end is near."
THAT sounds like a real party.
40 % of U.S. debt has to rollover in the next year. Bill Gross said that debt service would take 100 % of the US GDP in 5 years. The U.S. budget office just said the same thing,,, but not on the exact timeline. The budget office was also kind enough to also report that after several years, debt service would take 200% of GDP. How very informative.
Some claim that Goldman Sachs is controlling all of this. http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/06/g ... major.html
Supposedly GS expects to own everything tangible in the US. The FED is trying to get control of the entire US financial system. Supposedly GS would control the FED. the GS/ FED could buy up all the bad loans and make them a debt of the people. That w ay GS / FED would own everything in the U.S.

Here's an interesting projection;
"This is where evolution is taking us. It is not taking us back, it is taking us forward. We are evolving to a place where governments print the money we use for trade, but not for savings. They will have to earn our trust again before we will save in their currency."

The FED has lost control. Bankers believe that the economy is like a machine. You just push the right buttons and pull the right levers,,, and it all works out the way that they want. They are learning that the economy is more like an organism.
Supposedly, the biggest bubble of them all is blowing,,, confidence;
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north723.html

It also seems that our Fearless leader is way too reckless with our money;
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/ron_ ... ode=8224-1

Since the bubble was predictable,,, it was avoidable. Both the SEC and the FBI notified GOV that a RE bubble was blowing. Both the SEC and the FBI had their real estate fraud divisions reduced by 98--99 % in 2004. The RE bubble was somebody's pet project,,,, but who? Goldman,,, Israel,,,, NWO,,,, U.S. military / industrial / banking,,, NEOCONs??? It's possible that all of the above are fighting for control.
Can't figure that one out.
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Post by can't sit still » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:47 pm

Yeah, it's me again. I'm hoping that this thread can be a sort-of clinical examination of an ongoing process. It has quite a few reads so, I'll assume that it isn't wasted effort.
The main difference between the 1929 crash and the 2008 crash is; in 1929, the U.S. was a net creditor nation. Now, we are a net debtor nation. We are not in any danger of losing that distinction either. Congress just passed health care and carbon tax. That should insure that we firmly remain in unquestioned insolvency. :(

iTulip did a comparison to Argentina. "
We have all heard that the U.S. economy cannot go the way of Argentina in 2001 when foreign investors expressed lost confidence in the government and refused to roll over maturing short-term government bonds"
40% of U.S. debt has to rollover in the next year.
"Lenders will keep buying U.S. debt forever no matter how large U.S. fiscal deficits become or how much bad debt the Federal Reserve takes onto its balance sheet"
I have trouble believing that one.
". Evidence abounds that the U.S. is trapped in a cycle from which a kind of Argentine style default with U.S. characteristics is all but inevitable."
The congressional budget office says that debt service will take ALL of the GDP. I guess that one could define that as inevitable.
"In the kind of crisis that is most likely to grip the U.S. with anything but fleeting economic troubles, capital flows become the only economic factor that matters and others that monetarists dwell on, such as bank credit, become irrelevant"
Negative capital flows wiped out Argentina. The currency exchange [FOREX] trades $ 3 trillion a day. That is some real cash. GOV is controlled by the banks. The banks are only concerned about bank credit. Just as the banks are ignoring the producing economy, they're also ignoring the flow of capital.

"produce monetary deflation as demand and output fall. But the period of deflation is brief because the economics orthodoxy of our time calls for radical and immediate fiscal and monetary policy action to slow the contraction of money and credit and boost demand."
Well, it's definitely been radical.... BUT, IT ISN'T WORKING. It's just been a postponement.
"the appearance of a sharp period of deflation after a bubble collapses is in and of itself a warning sign of potential impending out-of-control inflation. That is why we give it a special name disinflation to distinguish it from deflation."
"Argentina's economy started to blow up when its fiscal deficit exceeded 3% of GDP in 2001" "The CBO projects the U.S. fiscal deficit at 12.3% in 2009"
No pussyfooting around here. Do it right
"In every respect this depression is worse than the one that preceded WWII, with world stock markets and trade falling far more quickly in the year since April 2008 than occurred during the first year of The Great Depression."
It's actually falling at about twice the speed. "Change in consumer debt just turned negative for the first time on record." GOV just can't get us to throw our money around.
I believe that the momentum is just too great to turn around. GOV / Banking is ignoring the producing economy AND the flow of capital. It's going to get very ugly before they start to pay attention.
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread ... post106493
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Post by can't sit still » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:24 pm

Evaporation

"The total worth of the world's wealthy fell about $7 trillion last year, to $32.8 trillion.

"North America was the greatest victim of 2008, shedding 600,000 millionaires and roughly $2.8 trillion in high wealth net individuals wealth.

"Anyway, Mr. Williams' honorable and time-honored methodology shows inflation in prices running about 6%, a horrendous rate, which is a big shock to those who have just swallowed the government's estimate of CPI as being a negative 1.3% over the last year!"

"
Even worse, M1, which is the narrowest definition of money since it is essentially defined as "cash", has exploded to an outrageous 16% growth since the beginning of 2009!"

"And as bad as that is, the really bad news is that measuring unemployment the correct way shows that it has now shot past the 20% mark! One out of five unemployed!"

"Gary Gibson, managing editor of Whiskey and Gunpowder, who had done a little research and found that the Federal Reserve just reported that "US household wealth dropped $11.1 TRILLION since 2008 - $5.1 trillion of that in the last three months alone."

$ 5.1 trillion lost in one quarter. I really hate to point this out but, the speed of loss is accelerating. GOV is creating money by the trillions but, it isn't getting to the people. The banks insist that the money is their's. Congress talked about auditing the FED. The FED said that they would "blow" the system if congress interferes.

The middle class is taking a beating. The investor class is getting killed. The retirees are being whacked up the side of the head.
Mr Change is going to severely cut medicare and medicade;
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jun20 ... -j16.shtml
That should pretty well screw the old and poor. He doesn't want to discriminate so, he's going to screw the latinos too. "including the elimination of subsidies for hospitals that treat uninsured patients"
I, for one can easily believe the "change".
Dan
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Post by Oldguy » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:53 pm

The Amish of Pennsylvania are largly unaffected except for the appox. 5 percent who work off-farm. The Indiana and Ohio Amish who work in RV factorys are the hardest hit, and they are going back to the farm and woodshop. Deurbanization is the national movement I see in the next 20 or so years.

I'm going kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. The last two days I have been off the net due to a mouse failure, the wire cracked. I went to town today and got a wireless mouse. My first mouse was a ball type, my second one was lazer (or whatever that red light was), now I've gone wireless thru my front port. My keyboard is ancient but works still, but it will wear out eventually. The 7 bucks I pay is a great value for net access, entertainment, and socialization.

Now I am ready for THE LONG HOT SUMMER.

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Post by can't sit still » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:49 am

One looks around at a completely incomprehensible financial landscape.
Obama says; $ 850 billion for foreign poor people. $ 800 billion for health care. Trillions for bailouts. BUT, there's no possibility of investors providing that kind of money to loan to GOV. We're headed for a cliff and he steps on the gas. What's going on. It's not just a simple case of grand larceny. The FED is printing up money like there is no tomorrow.
Is there a tomorrow?
Obama has proved that he's in the pocket of the bankers. Problem is; he thinks that he's smarter than the bankers. He thinks that if he crashes the dollar and ushers in a world currency; he can be the godfather of world socialism. He may very well be the godfather but, his baby will be world poverty.
His new financial roadmap gives all the power to the FED. Rockefeller said that he wanted to destroy the U.S. to bring global harmony. The new plan would give the global bankers complete control over all aspects of the finances of the country.
The current volatility makes it impossible to execute a viable long-term financial strategy. The current debt load makes it impossible to repay. A big wash would go a long way towards bringing stability. FDR did the big wash many years ago. It's called a "bank holiday"

Speculating; The banks would be closed,,, the new financial laws would be implemented,,,the U.S. would declare 'force majeure",,, a new currency would be introduced for investment transactions with a tax on financial transactions.
Force majeure would "allow" us to renege on our debts,,,, mostly to the East.
Since the banking cartels are all Western [and losing powers to the East], this would go a long way towards weakening the East.

It's boiling down to a battle of East vs West as the East is starting to arise. A bank holiday would be a resounding public broadside. Prison Planet has some interesting speculation concerning the veracity of info coming from the Bilderberg meetings.
http://www.infowars.com/bankster-holida ... september/
It's all very interesting.
Dan
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Post by can't sit still » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:08 am

I "timed out" while I was editing my message,, and lost it.

The endless task of bankers is to separate investors and workers from their wealth. After all, bankers don't produce wealth. They need to squeeze and steal it. This isn't working so well lately so they need a plan with more compulsion. By GOV Taking all the money from the people and giving it to the banks, this certainly qualifies as compulsion. But, this just isn't enough. The economy is crashing so fast that the banks need more of your money.
GOV is spending endless $ trillions like it's water. Sooner or later, the water is going to run out. The, GOV can declare "Force Majeure" with a clear conscience. http://www.library.yale.edu/~llicense/forcegen.shtml
How nice

Why should Mr change send money to California when he can just cancel all contracts with investors.
One looks around at a completely incomprehensible financial landscape.
Obama says; $ 850 billion for foreign poor people. $ 800 billion for health care. Trillions for bailouts. BUT, there's no possibility of investors providing that kind of money to loan to GOV. We're headed for a cliff and he steps on the gas. What's going on. It's not just a simple case of grand larceny. The FED is printing up money like there is no tomorrow.
Is there a tomorrow?
Obama has proved that he's in the pocket of the bankers. Problem is; he thinks that he's smarter than the bankers. He thinks that if he crashes the dollar and ushers in a world currency; he can be the godfather of world socialism. He may very well be the godfather but, his baby will be world poverty.
His new financial roadmap gives all the power to the FED. Rockefeller said that he wanted to destroy the U.S. to bring global harmony. The new plan would give the global bankers complete control over all aspects of the finances of the country.
The current volatility makes it impossible to execute a viable long-term financial strategy. The current debt load makes it impossible to repay. A big wash would go a long way towards bringing stability. FDR did the big wash many years ago. It's called a "bank holiday"

Speculating; The banks would be closed,,, the new financial laws would be implemented,,,the U.S. would declare 'force majeure",,, a new currency would be introduced for investment transactions with a tax on financial transactions.
Force majeure would "allow" us to renege on our debts,,,, mostly to the East.
Since the banking cartels are all Western [and losing powers to the East], this would go a long way towards weakening the East.

It's boiling down to a battle of East vs West as the East is starting to arise. A bank holiday would be a resounding public broadside. Prison Planet has some interesting speculation concerning the veracity of info coming from the Bilderberg meetings.
http://www.infowars.com/bankster-holida ... september/
It seems that the investors are going to be a causality of the war.
It's all very interesting.
Dan
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:09 am

can't sit still wrote: Since the bubble was predictable,,,
Did you predict it?

Here's my prediction: 9000 by the end of the year.

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Post by can't sit still » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:34 am

Yes, I predicted it. The SEC and the FBI predicted it. Mises predicted it. About a dozen other economists predicted it. The gold bugs predicted it. GEAB predicted it; http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-18-Contents_a1000.html Prudent Bear and Financial University predicted it. I saw it in summer of 2005 but, waited til 2007 to start this thread. The trends would have been meaningless to most people in 2005 so, there would have been no point in talking about it. I predicted it by reading more-educated people and looking at their conclusions. My predictions relied on their financial savvy and my judgment.
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Post by Rabbi Dali Rick » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:57 am

Where's my handbasket?.....









Hey CSS you're invited out the weekend





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