Barbarian Camp

[Oldguy]

A 3 dollar machette works just fine. Ask Juan Corona. Oh wait, isn't he at San Quentin? Nevermind.

I got a chef's knife in my kitchen resembling an Arkansas Toothpick. I do not think I'll ever have to use it again in home defense.

As an ex-con I can't carry a blade longer than 2 inches, that's why most guys carry boxcutters as " tools ". If I wanted to kill someone, It would not be with a blade anyway.

But this thread is about art I think. The beauty of metalwork rather than its functionality. I wouldn't trust pinned guards or pommels, wooden grips or blades without full tangs. Fantasy weaponry has its place I quess, like engraved and filligreed firearms.

A true warrior would choose simple efficiency. I'd rather have 30 Juans with 3 dollar machettes than one Herbert with a 90 buck " Aragorn" blade.

[littleflower]

this is my favorite weapon for dealing with dull pencils

[MozyBonz]

Well I can’t speak for any one else.
My reasons for owning sword or maybe mutable blades have nothing to do with defense or a weapon used for killing.
I don’t play Dungeons & Dragons or belong to any type of Renascence fairs.
If I’m going to kill you I don’t need a weapon to do it.

When I was a teenager I did train with a sharp sword for a short time.
The blade gave me an intensely focused tie chi type workout.
I also felt a spiritual connection while working with the blade…kind of hard to explain.
I get the same thing from racing motorcycles. I was doing both at the time. Something about being on the sharp edge.

Pattern welded "Damascened" steel is considered by many to be a precious metal like gold or silver.
At an average of $100 or more per inch I would agree. So I am defiantly interested in collecting some.
Lightweight, very well made, and *very* effective blade owned by –Wolfe.
Has probably doubled in value since the death of the sword maker Jody Samson last year.
We just need to pry it from Wolfe’s cold dead hands.
Or you could try and take it from him with your 3-dollar machete.
A sword is not used for its firepower in today’s world.


I had to laugh at a guy once when he said to my neighbor “you want to fight me I will go get my swordâ€

[littleflower]

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swords and swordplay are art ... very beautiful, when not terrible.

i love the tug 'o war .... seems to me that i did recently beat some guy in such a contest ... boy was that fun ... ! hee ... is it possible?

[Oldguy]

" Civilization is unnatural." was how UglyDougly started this thread. I agree with his quote. I like the idea of a Barbarian Camp where people can explore their "natural" side. Play on.

Thomas Jefferson once said that anarchy is only three missed meals away. His reference may have been the slaves he owned, but this is only a guess on my part. Jefferson was a wealthy man and had much to lose. His slaves, however, had less and little to lose.IMHO.

Now we are in the 21st Century, but elsewhere in the world life is still like the 1700's. We can play at combat training and physical training, but elsewhere the training is all too real. Allright, enough seriousness on my part. Prison did change me, and not for the better. It was strictly punishment. Sometimes others see my personal opinions as public slights, none was/is intended. I envy your social position and freedoms.

I gave up my blades and weapons years ago. I understand their allure. We are in accord actually. I sometimes wish I still had a Civil War style cavalry saber and my blackpowder stuff, that 58 cal. muzzeloader could leave a nice hole.

[Wolfe]

" Civilization is unnatural." was how UglyDougly started this thread. I agree with his quote. I like the idea of a Barbarian Camp where people can explore their "natural" side. Play on.

The question then becomes *How* do we explore our 'natural' sides? In the case of Burning Man, a lot of people go naked, do the 'tribal' thing (and all the varied experiences that come with the term 'tribalism'), and in our case, I believe we will explore various aspects of it: from the low-fantasy side of it a la R. E. Howard's "Conan" (physical tests, wielding a weapon, and dressing the part), to the historical aspect-- I know we have at least one Nordic pagan in the group (I'm looking at you, Ygmir ); this historical/religious aspect can be incorporated to some degree. (Ugly, correct me on any of this if I'm wrong?)

I'm personally interested in this because I'm a fan of the "Conan The Barbarian" movie, and some of R.E. Howard's stories. When I heard about this, I just had to join in and see how it goes. I'll admit I'm not *hardcore* (I'll need to shower and I love cooked food ), but I'm willing to participate.

Thomas Jefferson once said that anarchy is only three missed meals away. His reference may have been the slaves he owned, but this is only a guess on my part. Jefferson was a wealthy man and had much to lose. His slaves, however, had less and little to lose.IMHO.

I've often thought about how society is unnatural versus 'barbarism'. In this case, barbarism will be defined as: a land with no rules, no one to enforce them, and no modern conveniences-- much like R.E. Howard's mythical Cimmeria . If we immediately took away the rules and the people who enforce them, chaos would bloom before 'might makes right' takes over: survival of the strongest, the most cunning, and the people who have the will to live and the skills to do it. Those skills could be hunting, trapping, fishing, farming, even thievery. This would also mean having to defend your food/valuables from someone else who would want to take them.

Now we are in the 21st Century, but elsewhere in the world life is still like the 1700's. We can play at combat training and physical training, but elsewhere the training is all too real.

Agreed. Just look at Somalia and other parts of Africa, rural Afghanistan, portions of the Middle East-- anyplace where warlords rule versus a centralized government that can enforce rules over their populace. Consider also places like the Amazon rain forests where people still live relatively prehistoric lifestyles: barely any clothes to speak of, hunting and gathering for food, and primitive huts as shelters. In short, barbarism still exists today in different degrees.

--Wolfe

[Wolfe]

Lightweight, very well made, and *very* effective blade owned by –Wolfe.
Has probably doubled in value since the death of the sword maker Jody Samson last year.
We just need to pry it from Wolfe’s cold dead hands.
Or you could try and take it from him with your 3-dollar machete.

I wouldn't recommend anyone taking anyone else's weapons, period. Plus, now that we've posted pictures of our weaponry, we can identify the original owners in the *severely* unlikely event of a dispute, not to mention the legal headaches and $$ that this would entail.

As for the blocks and rope idea-- I *like* it. Mozy, that's a good one. Can you get the blocks and rope together before BM?

--Wolfe

P.S. . . . and I'm still going to be buried with it .

[littleflower]

i am somewhat more interested in post-modern barbarism, ie, how society would look in the current civilized world if the current government and institutions were knocked off ... more of a mad max or jericho sort of scenario, with all of the modern stuff, but few resources available to use them.

unthinkable, yet absolutely possible....

i would not survive, but i think most of you guys would do fine...

[ygmir]

i am somewhat more interested in post-modern barbarism, ie, how society would look in the current civilized world if the current government and institutions were knocked off ... more of a mad max or jericho sort of scenario, with all of the modern stuff, but few resources available to use them.

unthinkable, yet absolutely possible....

i would not survive, but i think most of you guys would do fine...

we'll feed you.........(I speak for myself, anyway)........

[Ugly Dougly]

I think you should setup a two-man tug a war. Each person stands on a stump of wood. So it becomes more about balance and strategy than it does about strength. Little flower could be a camp champion I have seen it happen before.

Were you at Ygmir's hof when we did this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_Jousting
Hunker Hawser.

[Ugly Dougly]

Wolfe, we can certainly incorporate whatever barbarian elements you want. I still have a little Norse pagan inside me and it doesn't take much mead to let him out. as long as no one takes it too seriously, it's quite fun.

I am a fan of Robert E. Howard's Conan stories - that's where the quote comes from. When civilization is stripped away, chaos reigns. But ask any "with-it" mathemetician about order in chaos. What happens is that a tribal structure naturally emerges. It looks pretty dangerous to those outside of the tribe, because members of the tribe can't take chances with strangers; but once you are inside the tribe's embrace, it's a different story.

BM vets know that the "Mad Max" simulations and "tribal" (by which people usually mean bellydancing, henna, drums and pot) are a pretty common "meme" on the playa (and that's being kind). Let's see what else we can come up with.

[littleflower]

BM vets know that the "Mad Max" simulations and "tribal" (by which people usually mean bellydancing, henna, drums and pot) are a pretty common "meme" on the playa (and that's being kind). Let's see what else we can come up with.

did anyone suggest mad max simulations? henna? bellydancing?

you got the drum ....

pot is hardly post-modern ...

i never imitate anything, my dear. i'm thinking of something entirely new ... and far more relevant ... than copying what one finds in history books. my idea is more a synthesis ... certainly much of the past would reappear if something apocalyptic happened, but pieces of the modern would be around, as well. and no one knows what it will look like.

indeed, that's what the camp will be, like it or not ... cars, carport, camp stove, solar lights ...

[SilverOrange]

BM vets know that the "Mad Max" simulations and "tribal" (by which people usually mean bellydancing, henna, drums and pot) are a pretty common "meme" on the playa (and that's being kind). Let's see what else we can come up with.

did anyone suggest mad max simulations? henna? bellydancing?

you got the drum ....

pot is hardly post-modern ...

i never imitate anything, my dear. i'm thinking of something entirely new ... and far more relevant ... than copying what one finds in history books. my idea is more a synthesis ... certainly much of the past would reappear if something apocalyptic happened, but pieces of the modern would be around, as well. and no one knows what it will look like.

indeed, that's what the camp will be, like it or not ... cars, carport, camp stove, solar lights ...

So...kind of like...postapocalyptic punk?

[littleflower]

BM vets know that the "Mad Max" simulations and "tribal" (by which people usually mean bellydancing, henna, drums and pot) are a pretty common "meme" on the playa (and that's being kind). Let's see what else we can come up with.

did anyone suggest mad max simulations? henna? bellydancing?

you got the drum ....

pot is hardly post-modern ...

i never imitate anything, my dear. i'm thinking of something entirely new ... and far more relevant ... than copying what one finds in history books. my idea is more a synthesis ... certainly much of the past would reappear if something apocalyptic happened, but pieces of the modern would be around, as well. and no one knows what it will look like.

indeed, that's what the camp will be, like it or not ... cars, carport, camp stove, solar lights ...

So...kind of like...postapocalyptic punk?

no no no!!!!! in a post-apocalyptic world, everyone would be too busy fighting for survival to worry about punk ...! besides, where would they find green hair gel for their mohawks?

[Ugly Dougly]

Nobody is accusing you of being unoriginal, Littleflower. But for a virgin, there's a danger of coming up with an idea that you think is fresh, when you may find out that it's been done to death over the years. Just looking out for my campmates.

Now, the basic idea that 6000 years from now, we may be indistinguishable from what we were 6000 years ago, yes, I can grok that. It's an antidote to the usual assumption that evolution is always "onward and upward". Let's work with that?

[Simon of the Playa]

MISTER Mozy wrote

If I’m going to kill you I don’t need a weapon to do it.

amen, brother, amen....


spoken like a true barbarian.

[Wolfe]

Now, the basic idea that 6000 years from now, we may be indistinguishable from what we were 6000 years ago, yes, I can grok that. It's an antidote to the usual assumption that evolution is always "onward and upward". Let's work with that?

Also, the post-apocalypse "future barbarian" thing and its iterations --punk, movie-style a la Mad Max, and futuristic cars-- has been done at BM. I've seen many photos online, and spoken to a lot of people about it. What I haven't heard of yet is a *retro* barbarian-themed camp. True, many of our trappings will be modern --car port, cars, modern tents-- *this* year; hopefully the camp will evolve into something more period-ish next year: maybe a yurt, canvas pavillions, etc.

I like the idea that we can show evolution --specifically, societal evolution-- can regress without the artificial construct of laws to support it, and moreover, this is how humanity *started* when individuals became socities. Barbarism evolved into tribalism, which evolved into feudalism, and so on .

--Wolfe

[Ugly Dougly]

MISTER Mozy wrote

If I’m going to kill you I don’t need a weapon to do it.

amen, brother, amen....


spoken like a true barbarian.

Ooh, I'm scared.

[Ugly Dougly]

True, many of our trappings will be modern --car port, cars, modern tents-- *this* year...

You'd be aghast to learn what can be done with a shitload of burlap.

[littleflower]

Also, the post-apocalypse "future barbarian" thing and its iterations --punk, movie-style a la Mad Max, and futuristic cars-- has been done at BM. I've seen many photos online, and spoken to a lot of people about it. What I haven't heard of yet is a *retro* barbarian-themed camp. True, many of our trappings will be modern --car port, cars, modern tents-- *this* year; hopefully the camp will evolve into something more period-ish next year: maybe a yurt, canvas pavillions, etc.

I like the idea that we can show evolution --specifically, societal evolution-- can regress without the artificial construct of laws to support it, and moreover, this is how humanity *started* when individuals became socities. Barbarism evolved into tribalism, which evolved into feudalism, and so on .

--Wolfe

again ... i was not thinking mad max ... i also used jericho as an example, and i see neither as a model for the camp ...

i seriously doubt that civilization will regress without something apocalyptic to propel it ... and it likely won't be too long before civilization returns, either. where in life does this occur, this loss of everything we know? what in history has indicated that we could evolve backwards? lose not only laws and reason, but all of the stuff we have invented?

but none of that matters if you just want a retro camp, i think that will look terrific...

[Wolfe]

i seriously doubt that civilization will regress without something apocalyptic to propel it ... and it likely won't be too long before civilization returns, either. where in life does this occur, this loss of everything we know? what in history has indicated that we could evolve backwards? lose not only laws and reason, but all of the stuff we have invented?

So far, the only places where this does happen is in war-ravaged countries, and not to such an extreme degree-- places where armies are in control, more or less. Consider places like Sudan, and the contested territory between Israel and Palestine: whole cities that were bastions of civilization are now in shambles due to constant fighting. Granted, they haven't lost everything they know, but the basics --food, water, sanitation, and protection under the law, especially in Sudan-- are in short supply. They haven't lost everything they invented, but all of the trappings of civilization, such as supermarkets, easy access to medical care, police, and enforced rules, are missing.

but none of that matters if you just want a retro camp, i think that will look terrific...

That's just my two cents. In the end, Dougly has the final say . Frankly, I find this discussion of barbarism and its ramifications fascinating .

--Wolfe

[MozyBonz]

MISTER Mozy wrote

If I’m going to kill you I don’t need a weapon to do it.

amen, brother, amen....


spoken like a true barbarian.

Ooh, I'm scared.

My apologies you have misinterpreted what I meant by that statement. I don’t carry any weapons other than a multitool.
I don’t put myself in situations that I would need one.
I am always aware of who is around me and often stand in the background or with my back to a wall. Comes from years of security work.
If a cop tells me to put my pants on I do…post haste.

If I am going to kill it means an event has happened that has put myself or someone else in direct mortal danger. At that moment going to go get a weapon is not an option. Knowing where the off button on a person is useful.

As far as an apocalyptic event. Knowledge = Survival

[Simon of the Playa]

i too misinterpreted, i thought mozy was referring to something else.


a different ability.


i can kill a party with just one joke...

[littleflower]

i seriously doubt that civilization will regress without something apocalyptic to propel it ... and it likely won't be too long before civilization returns, either. where in life does this occur, this loss of everything we know? what in history has indicated that we could evolve backwards? lose not only laws and reason, but all of the stuff we have invented?

So far, the only places where this does happen is in war-ravaged countries, and not to such an extreme degree-- places where armies are in control, more or less. Consider places like Sudan, and the contested territory between Israel and Palestine: whole cities that were bastions of civilization are now in shambles due to constant fighting. Granted, they haven't lost everything they know, but the basics --food, water, sanitation, and protection under the law, especially in Sudan-- are in short supply. They haven't lost everything they invented, but all of the trappings of civilization, such as supermarkets, easy access to medical care, police, and enforced rules, are missing.

but none of that matters if you just want a retro camp, i think that will look terrific...

That's just my two cents. In the end, Dougly has the final say . Frankly, I find this discussion of barbarism and its ramifications fascinating .

--Wolfe

exactly, exactly ....

i like to think about what we would do with old stuff we can no longer use because there is no electricity, no batteries, no satellite hookups, &c. could be fun ...

but a retro camp would be fun, too ... and, as you said, no one has done that at BM.

[MozyBonz]

i too misinterpreted, i thought mozy was referring to something else.


a different ability.


i can kill a party with just one joke...

He he he I got it.

I'm Just in a very dark mood lately.

[ygmir]

Wolfe, we can certainly incorporate whatever barbarian elements you want. I still have a little Norse pagan inside me and it doesn't take much mead to let him out. as long as no one takes it too seriously, it's quite fun.

I am a fan of Robert E. Howard's Conan stories - that's where the quote comes from. When civilization is stripped away, chaos reigns. But ask any "with-it" mathemetician about order in chaos. What happens is that a tribal structure naturally emerges. It looks pretty dangerous to those outside of the tribe, because members of the tribe can't take chances with strangers; but once you are inside the tribe's embrace, it's a different story.

BM vets know that the "Mad Max" simulations and "tribal" (by which people usually mean bellydancing, henna, drums and pot) are a pretty common "meme" on the playa (and that's being kind). Let's see what else we can come up with.

TMI Will Robinson, Danger, Danger......

[ygmir]

i too misinterpreted, i thought mozy was referring to something else.


a different ability.


i can kill a party with just one joke...

I use the FSNP.........Famous Spock Neck Pinch.........

[MozyBonz]

i too misinterpreted, i thought mozy was referring to something else.


a different ability.


i can kill a party with just one joke...

I use the FSNP.........Famous Spock Neck Pinch.........

Fuck now everyone knows I will never be safe..........RUNS

[littleflower]

I still have a little Norse pagan inside me

i want a little norse pagan! where did you find him? i only know big ones.

[ygmir]

I still have a little Norse pagan inside me

i want a little norse pagan! where did you find him? i only know big ones.

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