gift help

vegasrett · Post by **vegasrett** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:04 pm

hey all, im on the fence here and need a little help

ive been lost this year for gifts and got an idea today. i noticed that a lot of us chasing the water trucks last year had a bar of soap in hand. would it be irresponsible to bring soap/shampoo racks to magnet to the back of the water trucks?

on one hand i dont like the grey/soap water dumping and dont feel right encouraging it.

on the other hand, it seems to be happening anyway so part of me feels the racks would be a clever addition to the community.

ive been back and forth all day on this one. if you could all fight it out i would be glad to bring or not bring them.

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:14 pm

It seems to me that that would just be encouraging bad behavior. Radical self reliance=providing for your own method of staying clean...or not. (There's a reason you see all of those evaporation pools out there.)

OnceTheDustClears · Post by **OnceTheDustClears** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:27 pm

I vote no.
Slippery and messy.
Best just gift the soap.

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:05 pm

Bad idea. Ive seen people take soap out there and shower behind the truck, but to build racks with magnets and whatnot would almost be like mass producing and promoting the bad idea. Its one thing to jump behind the truck and wash in the water, but to bring soap out there is a huge grey water thing, especially on a large level your talking. I think you have a good idea... Maybe you can build off of it somehow. Biodegradable soaps? Or maybe build your own community showers?

You for damn sure wouldnt want to use bar soap... you drop it once and it becomes a mud ball. So the alternative is liquid soaps, which i can also see being a huge mess and grey water issue...

skibear · Post by **skibear** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:18 pm

Once the water spray hits the playa it becomes an incredible
muddy, slippery mess'

Lubricate with soap and I doubt you'll remain standing.
Remember you're running about 3 to 5 mph since the water
trucks don't slow down. LOL

DoriumLux · Post by **DoriumLux** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:27 pm

What the hell. What on earth makes you think that the water trucks would be okay with you slapping a magnetized shower rack on the back of their trucks? The trucks are there to keep the dust down and not to wash dirty hippies. You know that right??

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:09 pm

When I see the water truck I have little frissons of horror of the nasty slip and fall under the truck's wheel. Yeah, yeah, unlikely. But

Let's just say I am particularly sensitive to possibility of gruesome accidents.

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:41 pm

Since the water is non-potable, it seems silly to me to encourage this behaviour. It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

Non-potable water is sewage that has been treated by removing the solids and running it through a couple of filters. I'm not so sure that even a hippie is going to get cleaner washing in it.

Think of the law suit when some yahoo does fall beneath the wheels of that truck or breaks a leg! Then we'll get to have more f***ing rules.

No thanks!

vegasrett · Post by **vegasrett** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:20 am

thanks all for the input.

like i said, i could take or leave the idea. looks like its getting left here and im still shopping for ideas.

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:27 am

Vegasrett;

Thanks for the opportunity to discuss this issue.

Your idea of a gift was one that you thought would be helpful and we helped you to see otherwise.

The best gifts are ones that come from within you. Your profile says that you play banjo. I'm not sure if stringed instruments do well out on the playa but I would much rather see you be a strolling minstrel giving people a taste of your music than any other gift you could think of. Live music is soooo much better than the thump-thump.

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:31 am

Deb Prothero wrote:Vegasrett;

Thanks for the opportunity to discuss this issue.

Your idea of a gift was one that you thought would be helpful and we helped you to see otherwise.

The best gifts are ones that come from within you. Your profile says that you play banjo. I'm not sure if stringed instruments do well out on the playa but I would much rather see you be a strolling minstrel giving people a taste of your music than any other gift you could think of. Live music is soooo much better than the thump-thump.

I'll second this. A gift of your talent would be something that the community as a whole would be much happier to recieve IMO.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:54 am

Rather than soap you might gift them photos of all the little critters that are actually swimming in that non-potable water. After seeing it for myself I never entertained running behind a water truck again.

Monkeypoo · Post by **Monkeypoo** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:57 pm

I voted no.
I never used any soap while running after a fucking water truck. Not ever.
I was too busy getting wet and cooled off from the hot freaking playa sun by all that unsanitary frog pond water to even think about soap.

DoriumLux · Post by **DoriumLux** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:13 pm

Isotopia wrote:Rather than soap you might gift them photos of all the little critters that are actually swimming in that non-potable water. After seeing it for myself I never entertained running behind a water truck again.

Better yet here is a list of diseases that can be contracted by drinking or using non-potable water.

Cholera is an acute, diarrheal illness caused by infection of the intestine with the bacterium Vibrio cholerae. The infection can be mild or without symptoms, but sometimes it can be severe. Approximately one in 20 infected persons has severe disease characterized by profuse watery diarrhea, vomiting, and leg cramps. In these persons, rapid loss of body fluids leads to dehydration and shock. Without treatment, death can occur within hours.

Cryptosporidiosis is a diarrheal disease caused by microscopic parasites of the genus Cryptosporidium. Once an animal or person is infected, the parasite lives in the intestine and passes in the stool. The parasite is protected by an outer shell that allows it to survive outside the body for long periods of time and makes it very resistant to chlorine-based disinfectants. Both the disease and the parasite are commonly known as "crypto." This parasitic infection can result in severe diarrhea and can also produce nausea, vomiting, weight loss, and dehydration.

Cyclospora infects the small intestine (bowel) and usually causes watery diarrhea, with frequent bowel movements. Other symptoms can include loss of appetite, substantial loss of weight, bloating, increased gas, stomach cramps, nausea, vomiting, muscle aches, low-grade fever, and fatigue. Some people who are infected with Cyclospora do not have any symptoms.

Giardiasis is a diarrheal illness caused by a one-celled, microscopic parasite, Giardia intestinalis (also known as Giardia lamblia). Once an animal or person has been infected with Giardia intestinalis, the parasite lives in the intestine and is passed in the stool. Because the parasite is protected by an outer shell, it can survive outside the body and in the environment for long periods of time. During the past two decades, Giardia infection has become recognized as one of the most common causes of waterborne disease in humans.

Guinea worm disease is a parasitic worm infection. People get infected when they drink standing water containing a tiny water flea that is infected with the larvae of the Guinea worm. Inside the human body, the larvae mature, and the threadlike parasitic worm grows and matures up to three-feet long, and as wide as a paper clip wire. After a year, the worm emerges through a painful blister in the skin, usually in the lower limbs, causing long-term suffering and sometimes crippling after-effects. The worms cause swelling and painful, burning blisters.

Hepatitis A is a viral infection of the liver and is spread by ingesting contaminated food or water. The virus is highly contagious and may be passed from person to person, and unlike many other viruses, it can survive for a long time at room temperature. Symptoms include tiredness, loss of appetite, nausea, vomiting, or stomach ache, dark urine, and jaundice.

Legionellosis is a bacterial disease that results in pneumonia. Legionellosis can be a mild respiratory illness, or it can be severe enough to cause death. People contract legionellosis when they inhale water mist containing the bacteria. The early symptoms of legionellosis may be flu-like with muscle aches, headache, tiredness and dry cough, chills, diarrhea, and a high fever, commonly reaching 102-105 degrees.

Leptospirosis is caused by bacteria of the genus Leptospira. Humans become infected through contact with water, food, or soil containing urine from infected animals. In humans, it causes a wide range of symptoms, and some infected persons may have no symptoms at all. Symptoms of leptospirosis include high fever, severe headache, chills, muscle aches, and vomiting, and may include jaundice (yellow skin and eyes), red eyes, abdominal pain, diarrhea, or a rash. If the disease is not treated, the patient could develop kidney damage, meningitis, liver failure, and respiratory distress.

Schistosomiasis is a disease caused by parasitic worms, also known as bilharzia Water becomes contaminated by worm eggs when infected people urinate or defecate in the water. Schistosoma parasites penetrate the skin of persons who are wading, swimming, bathing, or washing in contaminated water. Within several weeks, worms grow inside the blood vessels of the body and produce eggs. For people who are repeatedly infected for many years, the parasite can damage the liver, intestines, lungs, and bladder.

Still want to run underneath a water truck?

dvd-r · Post by **dvd-r** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:20 pm

Deb Prothero wrote:Since the water is non-potable, it seems silly to me to encourage this behaviour. It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

Non-potable water is sewage that has been treated by removing the solids and running it through a couple of filters. I'm not so sure that even a hippie is going to get cleaner washing in it.

Think of the law suit when some yahoo does fall beneath the wheels of that truck or breaks a leg! Then we'll get to have more f***ing rules.

No thanks!

Not true. The water used on the roads of BRC comes from the hot springs and at the rate it is drawn from the springs it is pretty fresh water.

also non potable is defined as follows.

Non-potable water is water that is not of drinking water quality, but which may still be used for many other purposes, depending on its quality.

If you strained the solids from black water, you still have black water.

Saying things that are completely untrue is wrong. If you don't know what you are talking about. Don't talk.

Stay away from trying to change how we use the water trucks. It is a lot of fun, the dust is minimized and we watch out for dumb fucks. Otherwise when you hear my horn, come a running and I'll clean you up.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:26 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:When I see the water truck I have little frissons of horror of the nasty slip and fall under the truck's wheel. Yeah, yeah, unlikely. But

This type is too tiny to read.

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:09 pm

dvd-r wrote:
Not true. The water used on the roads of BRC comes from the hot springs and at the rate it is drawn from the springs it is pretty fresh water.

also non potable is defined as follows.

Non-potable water is water that is not of drinking water quality, but which may still be used for many other purposes, depending on its quality.
If you strained the solids from black water, you still have black water.

Saying things that are completely untrue is wrong. If you don't know what you are talking about. Don't talk.

Actually I felt confident sharing this information since it came from the BMorg when I interviewed them.

If you work for the company that drives the trucks and you know different then feel free to say so. Which springs do you draw that water from?

Stay away from trying to change how we use the water trucks. It is a lot of fun, the dust is minimized and we watch out for dumb fucks. Otherwise when you hear my horn, come a running and I'll clean you up.

If you are a water truck driver on the playa and you are prepared to accept the liability for the accident victim then I am sure the LLC would be real happy to have you put this in writing.

dvd-r · Post by **dvd-r** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:32 pm

So, Deb you interviewed someone. You say they told you that the water sprayed on the road is black water that has just been filtered? That is not legal. At least down here in the lower 48 and I really do not think they do that in Canada either.

So, it sounds like you don't want to run behind a water truck, then don't, but why go and spoil it for those that do.

I am beggining to wonder what happened to the burningman I liked, this is starting to sound like a legal hassel.

No water for you this year.

it is pretty easy to find out where the water comes from, I do not want to spoil your adventure.

"If you are a water truck driver on the playa and you are prepared to accept the liability for the accident victim then I am sure the LLC would be real happy to have you put this in writing."

People run behind me. I drive 5 miles per hour. The stupid shits on the bikes who ride in front of me at intersections are the problem.

(have you ever been to burning man? why are you shaking my monkey tree?)

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:48 pm

Actually it's not that easy to find out where the water comes from - I've asked drivers and they say they're not supposed to tell. I guess I didn't run into you when I was asking.

From the Afterburner report of 2004, I discovered that up until 2003 the water came from Frog Pond and that in 2004 they switched to Fly Hot Springs. Dust abatement chemicals are then added according to that report.

Yes, I did ask a representative of BMorg and was told that it is non-potable water that is full of harmful bacteria. This is also written on their website in several places.

You're right, I don't want to bathe in bacteria-laden water.

(have you ever been to burning man? why are you shaking my monkey tree?)

I've been to Burning Man each year since 2005.

I'm not interested in shaking your monkey tree. You go ahead and feel free to accept the liability of someone getting hurt.

The BMorg has protected itself by telling all participants that this activity is dangerous and they won't accept the liability. BMorg hires the water trucks to keep dust down in the city not to wash participants.

As far as I can tell, this is an activity tolerated or encouraged by the truck drivers. I wonder if your insurance company knows about this and will cover you in case of an accident.

dvd-r · Post by **dvd-r** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:12 pm

Deb, above you said

"Non-potable water is sewage that has been treated by removing the solids and running it through a couple of filters"

The BLM would never permit us to spray piss and filtered shit on the ground. You said you were told that is what we are doing. That is not true. period.

As you indicate all I can say about the source is that it is a natural source.

My liability is mine. Again, why you shaking my tree. First you say that we are spraying illegal water on the ground, this board is monitored by the blm. what you said is not true. Then you get all huffy about an accident from people running behind me. This is why I work there. I could be at the beach. Why do you even give a shit. we are having fun, why are you getting all legal on me. wow, pms?

The water sprayed on the gound is non-potable, thats all. just get it right. ok?

Also I suppose this thread could become legal evidence if someone was hurt, so we will need to re-evaluate allowing people behind the water trucks while moving.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:32 pm

I know of three people that had to go to the hospital in Reno after "washing" themselves behind the water trucks since 2005.

you can get real sick from the bacteria and shredded(and dead) minnows and such that are inside the water tanks after they suck up water from the nearby "natural" source.

don't do it, and if you must, avoid getting any of it into your orafices.

and for crying out loud, DO NOT use soap while walking behind the trucks....very uncool and in violation of the permits regarding proper disposal of gray water.

H.G.Crosby · Post by **H.G.Crosby** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:35 pm

although i may be new around here, i think we should all take two steps back from the dirty hippy, and read the back of our tickets, again.

just my humble, and cordial, opinion.

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Certainly Mr. Crosby;

No harm was intended by the discussion. Having a contrary opinion about the value of washing behind trucks seems to have been taken rather personally by someone whose art project has been criticized. It was not intended to be taken personally but to offer guidance for self-reliant behaviour by burners on the playa.

DoriumLux · Post by **DoriumLux** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:21 pm

Whether or not the water is semi-purified shit water or not non-potable water is not safe.

Non-potable water is unsafe to drink or to use on the human body because it contains pollutants, bacteria, contaminants, minerals, or infective agents. It is fit for watering down dust and as irrigation.

And I've seen many people run behind those trucks with their mouths wide open along with their eyes. Who cares if they do? I don't. However, lets be honest here about whether or not it is a smart idea.

Monkeypoo · Post by **Monkeypoo** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:45 pm

Eeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww....all in all this is scary info, but very good info and I thank you all. Again, eeeeeeeewwwwwwww....bacteria, cholera, yuck. Looks like this hippie will be taking more frequent armpit and cootchie baths, and pouring on lots more patchouli to keep her smell down during the week at BM.

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:13 pm

Deb Prothero wrote:Since the water is non-potable, it seems silly to me to encourage this behaviour. It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

Non-potable water is sewage that has been treated by removing the solids and running it through a couple of filters. I'm not so sure that even a hippie is going to get cleaner washing in it.

Think of the law suit when some yahoo does fall beneath the wheels of that truck or breaks a leg! Then we'll get to have more f***ing rules.

No thanks!

Generally if you don't drink the water you will be fine. And even though the trucks are there to keep the dust down, they also have a good time getting everyone wet and keeping everyone cool. Also I cannot see a lawsuit happening. "The ticket purchaser or holder ("you") voluntarily assume all risk of property loss, personal injury, serious injury or death, which may occur by attending Burning Man..."

Then again anything is possible...

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:43 pm

This is fuckin ridiculous. 3 people since 2005? Out of the hundreds of thousands of people who chase behind the trucks... Big deal. If you don't like doing it then don't do it. But as dvd-r said, don't ruin it for people who enjoy doing it. I have run behind the trucks on super hot days for years and years and even more years to come and never once have ever had a problem. (knock knock :-p ) I don't know anyone who has had a problem, I don't even know anyone who knows anyone who has ever had anything happen from the water out of the trucks. The only time I have ever even heard of something happening to someone is hearsay through the grapevine. Now I don't doubt that people may have had reactions before, but the chances are ridiculously slim.

My father actually works at a water treatment plant. It would be interesting and fun to run some tests on the water and find out just how much of what is actually in there. Just because its always a topic of conversation, on and off the playa. Though no amount of negative results would ever stop me from running behind those trucks on them hot fucking days on the playa. *love*

Thank you water truck drivers.

WOOOOT WOOOOT.

And about the legal lawsuit bullshit from whatever loco freak accident scenario your concocting in your head.... Read the back of your ticket.

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:54 pm

Ha Ha Watch me end up getting Schistosomiasis and crushing my leg under a truck...

Imma be pissed lol...

Post by **AntiM** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:58 am

Is that an invitation?

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:47 am

Absolut Jeenyus wrote:This is fuckin ridiculous. 3 people since 2005? Out of the hundreds of thousands of people who chase behind the trucks... Big deal.

That is 3 people I know personally, and I only know about 300 people or so personally.
I am sure the medics would have a more accurate count of such instances.
Go ahead and jump off the cliff, you have been warned that it might hurt you when you land.
Grab a glass jar and catch some of the water from the truck and take a look at what you are using to clean yourself with.

gift help

soap racks on water trucks?

gift help