Socks and and excess of snark

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:50 pm

It concerns me if a support and information spot is perceived as hostile. I'm willing to moderate my responses to ones I would be comfortable receiving. I think it's a good suggestion on any board to lurk a bit and check out the temperature before posting. I think this a bit like a bar I've never been in, expecting to be hale fellow well met right off the bat is usually the wrong approach. Still isn't Burning Man the sort of place where that expectation shouldn't be so far off the mark? I agree that QA and share resources are expected by new folks to focus on information and they expect to get answers as a priority. One thing I can say about Burning Man in my experience is that expectations are tricky. I thought of one poster who said he wouldn't want to meet any of the e playa pricks on the real playa. Sad, but it stands to reason that it isn't very transparent to the new folks. After reading here pretty regularly for a while I'd say it is prickly, but I wouldn't say anyone here is a thorough prick. I'd be happy to meet any one of us. You can't say there's no sense of humor. Usually the sharpest barbs are directed at those who lose theirs and I expect to be swung at whenever I say what should or shouldn't be. Adding IMHO may be a defensive maneuver on my part, but a wild animal is never truly tamed.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:52 pm

Token wrote:I'm looking for a cool low-key camp to join for this years festival.

I'm a chill 40 somthing-ish alcoholic and home brewer. I smoke, drink, i curse and swear all day long and am full of anger and snark.

Hoping to find some like minded souls and maybe land a shower mid week.

You wouldn't be my long lost twin brother would you?

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:58 pm

adam link wrote:ah fuck, what the hell do i know, i'm just a fucking robot.

Copycat

adam link · Post by **adam link** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:58 pm

Copycat Wink

i am happy to be a mere mimeographer in a long line of plagarists.

all literature has already been written as well as all stories yet to be told.

all art has already been seen, yet we create it over and over again.

i'm just a helper, a little grain of gossip in the sands of time. We are all on the same beach, whether we like it or not, the tides affect us all.

synchronicity is my master, not just an album by the police, and dont try to read any metaphors into it....the "wrist cutters club" isn't really about death now, is it.

please do NOT get me wrong, that IS a metaphor and by no means implies ending your own life to get to some better one...the best one you have is here, now.

stole that one too.

so what i guess i'm saying is that we are hard wired to be empathic.

we have always been able to understand each other.

when did we lose this? or did we? maybe in times of stress or crisis, one really takes stock of what is important, and the meaningless is shunned, or at least forgotten.

shared tribulations bond a community stronger than rules.

next time you dis a burner, maker sure they are NOT a "burner" but there to do harm to other "burners"

make double super sure you are right, in your perceptions and the facts before doing so.

show me a man with no enemies, and i'll show you a man who has never stood up for anything, including himself.

pick your stands wisely. be willing to compromise, unless compromise means greater harm.

now back to my point, in a perfect manner, full circle.

we robots have moved past linear thinking in a sense, we think in 3 different directions at once that relate to the notion of an x,y, and z axis.

after all, the universe is expanding, why not our minds as well.

call me a horton, but there are 50,000 who's done in whoville who i will not let be blown to the wind.

no matter what.

i have moved past stomping around in the jungle, i have done my time shaking the tree, i just want to protect this precious flower with all of my heart, and will not budge, even if it means i have to move.

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:25 pm

Seriously everybody...

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:26 pm

Adam: do you have a relative named Lancelot?

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:38 am

[quote="spectabillis

i have to avoid the "used to be better way-back-when" attitude

No you don't. I started going in 96, and was involved with Cacophany Society, and think I have a good understanding of how you feel. I saw the changes too, but also realised that what has happened was inevitable.

i see something very different, also evidenced by a significant number of people who prefer to simply leave than make an issue of it. those include the people who you see post, then react to the hostility, and you never hear from them again.

I don't seem to remember the old eplaya as being much different than this one. I'm someone that tends to lurk and get the feel of a place and when I started posting here again knew what to expect. I guess that I assume that most people are like me. (Could be a fault of mine) I just see the great majority of people ever on here as guests and not people logged in. This could be a symptom of exactly what you are talking about. I hope that you agree when I say that humour plays a big role on the playa as well as here, along with not taking things to seriously as I see that as being one of the joys of Burning Man.

I guess I don't really have any answers. I do see your point, as this is definitely a resource for people, and it is unfortunate that more people don't participate. I guess I do think that the majority of people who post here regularly do attempt to help others and the ones that don't help are usually good for comic relief. Though I know that there are some here just to further their own personal agendas for whatever strange reason that may be. I could see that someone who is not familiar with the environment could take offense if they don't get the dynamic though.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:57 am

maybe limit a username to an IP to limit the amount of socks that a person can have or use from a perticular ip address. one recent addition is eplaya may have created over 10 socks since his appearance on eplaya- almost half with in the last week or two since he was admonished by the mods.

You can tell who it is because the guy makes the same damn post and the sock all have the same persona- very amaturist as some of my socks would say.

Another sock used regularly on eplaya, always insults a newby when they first post a question or related to their BM experience. Yes, some people really set themselves up and it is prime to get the first Deadpan answer posted, but this person insults consistantly.

Remember if a person creates a thread that you might find offensive, you don't have to reply, but understand that person be intentionally mocking some norm or society and expecting some creativeness on the part of those replying- you know giving it the Eplaya Reply of snark and satiric response.

Of course, Am refering to the Open Discussion forums and especially not of the playa help threads which could open themselves up to snark but should be replyed sincerely.

AIIZ

I am a sock puppet · Post by **I am a sock puppet** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:38 am

Thanks for the pointers apple sauce!

Post by **AntiM** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:48 pm

I don't "admonish". I discuss. I have no way to limit socks myself, although I can see them. I can only ask them to desist or to bump them up to someone who has control over users accounts. And I do not like to do that, I'd prefer to work case by case, and sometimes post by post. And no, I really don't care how many socks one has, just as long as they don't go all batshit on us and throw the board into chaos. Sock away, but do know I'll lock down threads which get derailed. Or I will send a politely worded PM asking you to cut it out.

I will almost always lock a thread at the request of the OP. Even a sock OP.

I get plenty annoyed and often. There are many threads in Open Discussion I skim because frankly, they bore me beyond belief. Other threads are downright stupid and should be killed to death, but that's just my opinion.

The eplayans here are adults, They can choose what to read, how to answer. I encourage the use of the plonk feature and private messages. I would encourage those who do the snarking to respond in a thoughtful manner when contacted by other eplayans. Note: thoughtful. Not polite or courteous, or compliant. While I do moderate, most of my "power" comes from those who agree to be moderated. I see this board as community moderated, I just get to handle a few details. I don't know the personal philosophies of the other mods. That's 007 and Dork for now, although I do see Scotto on now and then. I'd have to check and see who else is still listed as a mod. Spec isn't anymore, are you? Trilo? BBS?

My main point is to ask you as burners and eplayans (not always the same thing) to make certain areas of this board useful and usable. The civility? nice to have, impossible to enforce. You all provide it or not. I am no mommy or nun, but I suppose I mediate as much as moderate in some cases.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:49 pm

Post by **AntiM** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:02 pm

I do have a Twitter account. Under maggiemayday. Do feel free to let me bore you once a day.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:06 pm

Hee hehehehehe *Smooch* love you

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:53 pm

AntiM wrote: I'd have to check and see who else is still listed as a mod. Spec isn't anymore, are you? Trilo? BBS?.

i'm not. i will only do it under an unlikely situation where its needed and absolutely no one else is available, so i shouldnt be listed or put under the mod user group since i had myself removed from it.

bbs isnt active. last i heard she's not working for or attending the event this year, so i dont know what her status will be going foreward. guess she can get moved into the same user group as me if someone at least pm's her about it first.

dont know about trilo, last i remember was some discussion about the commerce issue that recieved a reply from ag. status: unknown

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:36 pm

AntiM wrote:A few thoughts and personal opinions from one of your moderators:

Okay, I don't have a problem with a sock or two, I can look and see who is who. I do have a problem with socks who derail topics and have lengthy conversations with themselves. I'll out you if you cross the line.

Snark. We all do it, and some snark is fine and downright funny. Abusing newbs, even if they are DJs, is not snark. That's just mean. Cut it out. Unless it is the gal asking for a ticket to manifest itself every year, she's fair game.

When an earnest question is asked, please, helpful replies first. No matter how much you want to tell them to read their fucking ticket and the fucking survival guide, don't. Try something polite before ripping them a new one. If a thread devolves into snark, that helps no one. We want the eplaya to be USEFUL. What you do once a question has been answered, or the person has been sent to an appropriate link, that's a matter of taste. Simple steps, answer first, snark later.

Amuse yourselves in your own threads, your own camp threads, and certainly in Open Discussion. elsewhere, I would not ask for a complete shutdown of remarks, but please, show some judgment and restraint. What comes to mind for less snark, more advice, is the Q&A and the share resources threads, and some of the 2009 forums.

I can't suspend or ban any of you, I would not do that anyway, but please, don't make me get out my stern Anti M scowl. This is not about censorship, it is about having a forum which can be used for information, not personal amusement. I like performance art, but I don't like having to wrangle it. and some of you are getting geared up, I can tell. Let's reel in the assholery a notch, if possible. And I will not use my ability to edit posts to make you look completely foolish for the purposes of evil. But I'm tempted now and then.

Yes, you may snark at me now. But I'd like some thoughtful replies also. Yes, I can accept that I may be totally off here with my Agenda of Nice.

Thank you,
Anti M

MmmmmmmmMMMMMmmmm

If the socks are out of line
WHACK THEM !!!!!!!

Don't SNIVEL !!!!!!!
Don't MAKE EXCUSES !!!!!!

WASH THEM SOCKS......

AND DARN THEM.....

if you have to....

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:40 pm

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:21 pm

personally, i think the discussion of socks should come down to the basic fact they are only funny to a very small number of people. the posts are never original, and the comments are like something you read from a pre-pubescent's myspace page.

but thats a personal opinion, of course. unfortunately it seems to also be shared by those who either moved elsewhere, or came across the site and laughed at it all - and not in a good way.

Green Wood · Post by **Green Wood** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:30 pm

You got a giggle or two on my post about "Contact Management"

"I went into CM to contact the management only to be insulted. "You Have No Buddies!" How did you know! Ooooohhhhhmmf!"

When I first joined eplaya,

"Hi, my name is Green Wood and I love all Burners!"

That sure got a few people laughing, including Trey to take notice!

Back in the day, only trey was solid enough to snark, now everyone does it.

We were all pretty laid back then and now look what we have become! We, or I, wrecked Spec- I haven't read a funny comment or snark from him since he was a mod.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:47 pm

ja... thats very true... thanks for the insight gw, i am duly humbled and a bit embarassed.

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:46 pm

Is this going to turn into one of those "it aint like it used to be" things.?

I can feel it creeping.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:06 pm

Sadly, we can never go back!!! We have new lives, new parners and new socks. Many of us are gone forever to that playa in the sky! Oh how I miss them so much. And me I just keep holding on.

[youtube][/youtube]

SockMonkey · Post by **SockMonkey** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:31 pm

Monkeypoo wrote:I have a sock. She is SockMonkey.

She's a LIAR. She's LYING!!!

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:18 am

Nothing is ever as it used to be. But isn't that the beauty of it?

Bigger and better things...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:24 am

â€œIt is a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human problem all one's life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than 'try to be a little kinderâ€

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:35 am

Absolut Jeenyus wrote:Nothing is ever as it used to be. But isn't that the beauty of it?

Bigger and better things...

BUT is it better or just different!

Can your second burn really be better then the experience of the first? Sometimes, yes, but in my case and others, no. You can never duplicate the novelty of your first experience of the playa. You can have better art. A new tent. more of the drugs you like, but it can never be like the first time.

Though we have had record more users on eplaya, there are actually less regulars posting on an everyday basis in the Open Discussion. How man of them are sock? Only the Mods know for sure. I use my socks less these days then the Golden age of socks in 2003. Why? because it takes alot of creativeness to maintain their persona.

AIIZ

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:39 am

everytime is the first time..and quite possibly the last.....when you learn that than everything will be fine.

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:31 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:
Absolut Jeenyus wrote:Nothing is ever as it used to be. But isn't that the beauty of it?

Bigger and better things...
BUT is it better or just different!

So why does it have to be one or the other? Its evolution. And I think the fact things are constantly changing is better than if they were to stay in their original form. The fact things are always different then they were before is the beauty of it. IMO.

I'm not saying that any burn that follows will be better than the first. But its not a drug. I hope people aren't continually trying to chase the feeling of their first burn. Cause you will never get there. Instead people should take it at a face value experience. Anything else beyond that is what you make it to be.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:04 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:How about taking it easy on the newbies?
Or is that too barbaric an idea for me to suggest?

That change alone would make me feel a whole lot better about ePlaya. It really sucks to see a newbie come on here full of enthusiasm for this new paradigm they discovered on the Playa only to have some old crusty couch-bound fart blast them with arrogance and condescension. Rarely does the newbie come back and contribute to this community of ideas. We get stuck with the same old jaded intellectual halitosis wafted by a bunch of burned out Burners. Well, only a minority do it, but its a very vocal minority.

swampdog · Post by **swampdog** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:48 am

as a frequent lurker, occasional poster I have definitely observed frequent unnecessary roughness on newbs. It makes me feel embarrassed sometimes to see people who just want some info or some burning man rah rah get slammed to the mat, and sit there with a post count of 1.

But - some of the worst snark offenders (IMHO) are also people who provide huge service to the board. If some of these threads didn't get snarked on they'd get no response at all. These folks seem to be on 90% plus of the threads and provide a welcome, rough though it may be.

It is not, to my eyes, significantly worse (or better) than ever. Just the names change. Every year there's a slightly different cast of characters who appear on that 90% of threads. (Except Anti-M and Cryptofishist who have been frequent posters here longer than I've been reading and are loved by all!)

I do notice a welcome improvement in civility since Anti-M started this thread. Not only do I think it's a Good Thing, but especially so as the Event approaches and we get more newbs posting.

My analogy for eplaya is a group of people who spend most of the year mentally/emotionally at the event. It's like there's a year round campfire of people waiting, preparing, remembering, talking about this thing and everything else in the world. Some random stranger comes bouncing up saying "Hey, fellas, what's this whole burn thing about anyway?" and gets told, more or less kindly, to stfu, sit down, have a beer, listen a bit, go do some research, and don't interrupt your elders. Some of 'em go away mad, some of 'em stay and fight back, some of 'em take it in stride.

It doesn't have a real huge impact on the Event itself, anyone who decides not to go to Bman because they were snarked at on eplaya wouldn't have had a very good time or added to anyone else's good time anyway.

I guess a bunch of random observations like this won't end up with a closing statement.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:27 pm

Lurkers give me the creeps.

Regulars give me warmth.

Newbs give me hope(and despair).

Socks give me a rash.

Green Tomatoes give me the runs.

Socks and and excess of snark

Re: Socks and and excess of snark

eplayan since '04