SEEKING: CHILDLESS PEOPLE WHO...

magdalen23 · Post by **magdalen23** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:36 pm

...sometimes have issues with their choice to remain childless/childfree, or with having that state of being thrust upon them.

grief, acceptance, anger, annoyance, longing, happiness, ups and downs, numbness, and endless weeping all cheerfully invited.

in a nod to the Evolution theme, i'll be leading a participation session and ritual just for us. details to follow.

please email me at easterislandproject ((at)) gmail.com if interested.

and forward this along! thanks so much.

some stuff about my work in this area is in the Oregonian newspaper:
http://www.oregonlive.com/O/index.ssf/2 ... tiffa.html

magdalen23 · Post by **magdalen23** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:19 pm

thanks to everyone who emailed about this altar. seeing as how one of the Temple builders accidentally got a message he wrote sent about my request to put an altar up there -- "I WOULD TELL HER TO FUCK OFF" says the Temple designer -- i'm not exactly feelin' the love.

i would like to put a small altar for this purpose at my camp (Burning Tarot). unfortunately, we don't have placement. how the hell will anyone find us? hm.

we are hoping to be placed somelace on the perimeter of Hushville, but don't know if that is going to happen...

questions abound.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:57 pm

Oh great!

More pre-event therapy issues.

I mean, fuck! Can't we just go camping without turning this thing into a Jerry Springer chair toss session or a Doctor Fucking Phil cry-fest?

Jesus, just own your choices and get on with the business of living for fuck's sake.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:01 pm

Oh, and get me another drink. Would ya?

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:14 pm

Isotopia wrote:Oh, and get me another drink. Would ya?

I got a drink for you ISO......

Barrow's jk avatar.

Here you go.

LET ME FILL IT TO THE RIM FOR YOU.

All she is asking is for some participation if YOU WANT TO....

Oh by the way I am offering Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust

Maybe it don't mean shit to you...........

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:16 pm

Why does anyone get the right to harsh someone else's Burning Man experience? If this is her "gift" to the community and she thinks she can do some good with it, then stand aside and let her do what it is that she does.

While at first glance I admit Iso's comment did make me laugh and I see where she's coming from...it takes all types to make a city. And there's plenty of room for all. (Radical Inclusion!)

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:27 pm

Kinetic V wrote:Why does anyone get the right to harsh someone else's Burning Man experience? If this is her "gift" to the community and she thinks she can do some good with it, then stand aside and let her do what it is that she does.

While at first glance I admit Iso's comment did make me laugh and I see where she's coming from...it takes all types to make a city. And there's plenty of room for all. (Radical Inclusion!)

She isn't a DJ

She isn't seeking a stage, food, ticket, camp.......

SHE WANTING

To share her life

and QUESTIONS.....

magdalen23 · Post by **magdalen23** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:43 pm

don't worry about Isotropia and his little Jerry Springer fetish. i know a boring troll with no life when i see one. *yawn*

magdalen23 · Post by **magdalen23** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:50 pm

that said: thanks for the support and the understanding after iso posted that.

people bring their issues to the Playa (can i get a big "duh!" on that one?) and use some of the Playa ritual burning mayhem opportunities to work some of their issues out (can i get another "duh!" amen!) and, especially, work out grief and memorial issues during the Temple burn (let's have one, final "duh!" allelujah!).

i'm less worried about the Jerry Springer Effect than the stream of numbwits who don't recognize it when their issues are leakin' out all over the fucking place, from ePlaya to real Playa. iso, get yourself to a shrink (if you can waddle out of your little troll hidey-hole under the bridge long enough) instead of pestering people who ARE willing to own our shit.

now let's go back to our regularly scheduled "I'm just a poor innocent lady trying to do a nice thing on the Playa" discussion.

love & bunnies, magdalen.

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:51 pm

Isotopia wrote:Oh great!

More pre-event therapy issues.

I mean, fuck! Can't we just go camping without turning this thing into a Jerry Springer chair toss

I heard they bolt the chairs to the floor now.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:54 pm

Absolut Jeenyus wrote:
Isotopia wrote:Oh great!

More pre-event therapy issues.

I mean, fuck! Can't we just go camping without turning this thing into a Jerry Springer chair toss
I heard they bolt the chairs to the floor now.

The fun of the ePlaya.

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:56 pm

Hey magdalen23, don't let people rain on your parade.

Its like I say, if all else fails, fuck 'em. Keep smiling and holding your shit down.

And good luck with your project.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:46 pm

yeah ... love the snark, but pay no heed...

i don't think i'm the only one around here who craves snark...

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:02 pm

littleflower wrote: i don't think i'm the only one around here who craves snark...

yes but LF, you stuck around long enough to know the snarke and the snarker's..... Glad you did.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:25 pm

Isotopia wrote:
I mean, fuck! Can't we just go camping without turning this thing into a Jerry Springer chair toss session or a Doctor Fucking Phil cry-fest?

Just camping?

I hope you're working on my art and don't disapoint me again.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:26 pm

Isotopia wrote:
I mean, fuck! Can't we just go camping without turning this thing into a Jerry Springer chair toss session or a Doctor Fucking Phil cry-fest?

Just camping?

I hope you're working on my art and don't disapoint me again.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:31 pm

Absolut Jeenyus wrote:
Isotopia wrote:Oh great!

More pre-event therapy issues.

I mean, fuck! Can't we just go camping without turning this thing into a Jerry Springer chair toss
I heard they bolt the chairs to the floor now. :D

But they still blow away in the wind. When are they going to the rebar gold standard?

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:06 pm

For those who have kids, you never have to wonder.....

[youtube][/youtube]

Got to bury one of my wife's though.

If we didn't have issue's would we all be frat boys?

Post by **AntiM** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:12 am

Issues? Oh, I have issues. I lost two pregnancies many, many years ago, I nearly died. I have campmates who have lost a child more recently. As "we" are Anti M's Home for Wayward Art, we are requesting to be placed streetside in Hushville. Have been for several years now, no reason Ohio wouldn't do the same for us this year too.

"We" have come to a sort of peace with the loss of our children. Your ritual and altar are important to you, and may offer peace to some. I do know how it will go over in our camp. Like a lead balloon comes to mind as the nicest thing I can say. Understand you're touching a deeply personal nerve, one some of us do not care to have touched at Burning Man. You will not get a positive personal reaction from me and mine.

Shit. This distressed me greatly. Respectfully, I surely hope Burning Tarot and Anti M's Home for Wayward Art will not be immediate neighbors.

One person's art is another person's pain. Just so you know.

Token · Post by **Token** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:45 am

Thank you AntiM. Nailed it.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:52 pm

((((((((((AntiM))))))))))

magdalen23 · Post by **magdalen23** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:03 am

yours is an interesting reaction. i heart wayward art, and don't imagine i would taint it by having a small altar, nearby, in a Temple, or elsewhere...? would it just seem like a drag to be near an altar, or would that altar bother you because it would remind you of things...? i'm genuinely curious.

we are hoping for Hushville perimeter placement too. Tarotist Training Camp (this year just Burning Tarot) did no one any harm last year, either, unless you want to count pulling over a car in a whiteout at faux-automatic-weaponry-gunpoint and a balaclava, only to discover i was stopping a cop. Washoe County.

to all who have experienced troublegriefmiseryjustplainconfusion around the issues i brought up: my best wishes and condolences to you. and my apologies if even mentioning it brings up painangergrief.

magdalen23 · Post by **magdalen23** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:04 am

(oh, and re: the video -- have you heard Bongwater's cover of that song, on the Power of Pussy? great stuff.)

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:25 am

What is up with you? Didn't you actually read what she said? About her two misscarraiges and about how one person's art can be another's pain?

Please apologise to her and ask Dork or 007 to shut down this thread.

I, among many people here, love AntiM and am deeply appreciative of the work that she does here, as well as her contributions on playa. If you want to make something of it with her, you shouldn't be surprised if you get a lot of flack from the rest of us.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:26 am

i know ann magnuson, she's great...

wacka-wacka.

dvd-r · Post by **dvd-r** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:37 am

magdalen23 wrote:yours is an interesting reaction. .

Someones life and the pain they have felt is "an interesting reaction"

why did you start this thread. I think this really pisses me off, but I'm not sure if maybe you are just really just dumb.

Hopefully this does not become a sore point... though I feel like I want to pick it and scratch it and...

(maybe the temple builder had a point with the mail he sent his wife per your previous posts) are you listening?

Token · Post by **Token** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:01 pm

Oh sweet jeezus H christ on a fucking stick ...

magdalen23

Shut The Fuck Up!

Post by **AntiM** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:14 pm

This would have been better served in the original thread, I'll move it.

But I can tell the intention is good. I'm not angry. She may have experienced loss herself and is working through it. Not an easy task at all.

You have every right to set up your altar in your camp. I simply absolutely don't want to see it or interact with any rituals for personal reasons. I don't mind sharing even... i have dealt with the fact I lost my children, in my own way, in my own time. I do not want to repeat the action. I most especially do not want to do so at Burning Man. Your ritual would cause me discomfort and possibly anguish. I am not the only one.

However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't go ahead with your plans. Just be sensitive to the feelings and perceptions of others.

I can and do talk about the experience, I want every pregnant woman to get checked early. To be accurate, i had two ectopic pregnancies which lodged in my fallopian tubes. The first one ruptured at 11 weeks, I was immediately busy bleeding internally. Very calm experience after the initial pain and collapse. Floaty until the needle went through the cervix to draw fluid. If I had not been on duty on base, I would have died alone in my Japanese apartment. The second was discovered via ultrasound and removed that same day. I'd have a 24 and a 21 year old. They rest at the shrine of Hase Kannon in Kamakura.

Best of luck and thanks for asking.

magdalen23 · Post by **magdalen23** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:49 pm

thank you, anti M, for your reading of my reply. you're right, "the intention is good." i was genuinely wondering about your reasons. thank you for elaborating on them.

to all who think i was attacking anti m, i wasn't. i'm sorry if my phrasing was off. i again send my condolences and deeply felt sympathy to anti m and goat and all there who have grieved or still grieve. thank you for being honest and willing to tell your story, too.

"One person's art is another person's pain. Just so you know." i agree. art and film and music and books regularly trigger my emotions, remind me of things that have happened to me and people i love, and cause me great pain. some of these works just invoke hurt; others bring catharsis through that empathy and pain. i weep when i see the photos of little ones pinned up in the temple every year, and the memorials to grownups, too. it's painful, yet it's beautiful and transformational.

whether artists should or shouldn't create works at all, if they might be painful or cathartic or controversial, is one of the great subjects of art and will likely remain so forever. anti m, thank you for saying outright "that doesn't mean you shouldn't go ahead with your plans."

as conversation often does this one is making me want to find a compromise. personally, it causes me pain that the issue at stake here is usually closed off, society doesn't want to talk about it or deal with it as a culture, there are no public rituals for handling it. so i receive a lot of email and cards and etc from people who feel the same & are glad that i'm trying to make the subject part of public conversation.

which doesn't mean everyone will feel that way, and apparently a lot of Burners don't.

so anyway, a compromise might be to make the altar and/or ritual very private, listed in the WhoWhatWhere so that only people wanting to experience this will have to deal with it, and everyone else can ignore it. and i think i'll wait until 2010 or 2011 to bring it to BRC. my work in this subject matter seems to be more acceptable to people off-Playa, so i think i need time to absorb all this feedback, from courteous to vicious, and decide whether to bring it to the Playa someday. radical self expression can get too radical or rile people up too much. sometimes it's too much.

and to the people who've told me to FUCK OFF and SHUT UP, i have one answer:

no.

Post by **AntiM** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:53 pm

We can talk on playa if you like.

SEEKING: CHILDLESS PEOPLE WHO...

SEEKING: CHILDLESS PEOPLE WHO...

Temple altar plans not happening - alternate happening...

anti m

Re: anti m