POWER kites?

fluttertunnel · Post by **fluttertunnel** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:16 pm

I am an avid power kiter, and am interested in bringing a kite and mountain board to cruse the playa this year. I've only been once in 07 and can't recall seeing many kiters around and about. Any reason to be concerned about flying on the playa, or are we a go for launch?

Also, is it kosher to hop the trash fence and continue cruising into the sunset, perhaps climbing a neighboring hill/mountain? Just inquiring in case the wind is favorable and heading that way!

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:33 pm

5 mph in the fence. Go out the Airport gate to get out of the fence. Carry your ticket & ID.

But maybe you should sell your ticket and go to a theme park if you just want thrill rides.

PavementBlues · Post by **PavementBlues** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:50 pm

Bob wrote:But maybe you should sell your ticket and go to a theme park if you just want thrill rides.

Maybe you should relax. Just because he wants to practice his hobby on the playa doesn't make him some weekend-partying asshole.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:14 pm

Feel free to add something informative.

vikb · Post by **vikb** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:08 am

I'm bringing a couple kites and a mountain board to the burn this year. For sure you can fly the kites out on the playa away from the city, the man and any installations.

By a strict interpretation of the rules you can't ride a board powered by your kite inside the event fence. However, I have spoken to folks that said in practice it has been allowed on the 9 o'clock side of the city between the camp and the fence.

You can also leave the event at the airport and ride there.

When I get to BRC and finish setting up my camp I'm going to talk to the DMV and the rangers to see what they suggest and I'll go from there.

My GF wants to get into kiteboarding so for sure I'll be talking her out into the open playa past the man with a trainer kite and showing her how to fly it.

If you'd like to meet up and do some riding/kiting send me a PM.

cheers,

Vik

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:30 am

Bob, you're a sofa.

Vikb, I am sure you have researched our little rules about wind-powered craft.

I think that the concern stems from large, heavy and dangerous objects without brakes. If your skateboard can become an uncontrollable projectile, then it may become a safety hazard.

I know you will have fun anyway.

vikb · Post by **vikb** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:14 am

Ugly Dougly wrote: Vikb, I am sure you have researched our little rules about wind-powered craft.

I think that the concern stems from large, heavy and dangerous objects without brakes. If your skateboard can become an uncontrollable projectile, then it may become a safety hazard.

I know you will have fun anyway.

The skateboard would come to a stop within 10'-15' if I fell or jumped off and is no worse than a bike for a hazard, but I do understand that you can't write a concise set of rules that deals with every situation perfectly. That's why I'll go chat with the DMV and the BRC rangers. I'll show them what I'm talking about and respect their decision on what is acceptable/safe.

Just so we all know what we are talking about here is a photo:

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:23 am

I remember seeing guys flying around the open playa on those things years ago, seems like they went pretty fast, maybe 30-35mph, but that back when early entry was as easy as showing up early.

vikb · Post by **vikb** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:32 am

wedeliver wrote:I remember seeing guys flying around the open playa on those things years ago, seems like they went pretty fast, maybe 30-35mph, but that back when early entry was as easy as showing up early.

30-35mph would be insanely fast for a kite and a mtn board. You only want to ride as fast as you can handle falling off and hitting the ground. So 10-15mph would be my max. I ride a kiteboard on the water at 20-25mph and that's super fast even though the landings are a lot softer on water.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:46 am

If I recall the rider was sitting not standing, and it might have been a two or three wheeled vehicle, or it might have been my imagination playing playa games.

(i think i have a pic on another computer I will look and see)

Question at 15mph how quick can you stop, for loose bikes, sleeping dead bodies..etc

(as far as jumping the fence, dude, they got radar on that fence line and this year it will be electrified!)

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:08 am

That would be a kite buggy, another thrill sport.

The obvious BRC-DMV objections are that neither can be controlled very well, they're impossible to keep under 5 mph, and they can't be stopped on a dime to avoid hitting people, art, rebar, etc. The not so obvious objection is that they piss off the rangers.

vikb · Post by **vikb** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:16 pm

Bob wrote:That would be a kite buggy, another thrill sport.

The obvious BRC-DMV objections are that neither can be controlled very well, they're impossible to keep under 5 mph, and they can't be stopped on a dime to avoid hitting people, art, rebar, etc. The not so obvious objection is that they piss off the rangers.

I have to disagree about being able to control them well. You can start, stop and steer around things quite easily as well as keep your speed in control. That isn't an issue. Just like riding a bike you can do so safely or you can do so without consideration for what is around you.

Which is why nobody with half a brain would suggest using any kites in a built up area, near any installations or amongst crowds of people.

OTOH there is no rationale reason not to fly a kite or ride a landboard with a kite away from the city proper on the open playa.

vikb · Post by **vikb** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:23 pm

wedeliver wrote:If I recall the rider was sitting not standing, and it might have been a two or three wheeled vehicle, or it might have been my imagination playing playa games.

(i think i have a pic on another computer I will look and see)

Question at 15mph how quick can you stop, for loose bikes, sleeping dead bodies..etc

(as far as jumping the fence, dude, they got radar on that fence line and this year it will be electrified!)

That was probably a buggy powered by a kite. They can go faster as you centre of gravity is lower and you are less likely to crash.

As for how fast you can stop. In an emergency you can just let go of the kite [it stays attached to you, but loses power and falls to the ground] and jump off the board stopping in a few feet. In practice what you'd do is slow down and steer around the obstacle.

More importantly you'd only ride as fast as was safe given the visibility and the stuff around you.

In the same way when I am riding my bike deep in the heart of BRC I go slow and watch out for other people while out in the open playa I feel it's okay to bomb around fast and make big swoopy turns. Every situation is different and requires some critical thought.

fluttertunnel · Post by **fluttertunnel** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:23 pm

cool beans people! Thanks for the responses I appreciate all the ideas and considerations~! Electrified radar fence included~! hah

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:36 pm

I ain't shittin' bout the radar.. look near center camp for the dish going round and round, I think they have eyes for 5 miles out.

they are still working on the technology to electrify plastic...

bring your board and your kite, lots of open playa out there!!

Oldguy · Post by **Oldguy** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:55 pm

I believe these board kite sailors are good candidates for the Darwin Awards this year. There are art instalations all the way out to the trash fence. I hope you don't hit one or some burner sleeping on the ground out there. If you are tied to the sail you are not in control. Land sails are banned for good reason. Go out the airport gate and do your sailing in deep playa outside the fence where you are supposed to go.

vikb · Post by **vikb** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:01 pm

Oldguy wrote:I believe these board kite sailors are good candidates for the Darwin Awards this year. There are art instalations all the way out to the trash fence. I hope you don't hit one or some burner sleeping on the ground out there. If you are tied to the sail you are not in control. Land sails are banned for good reason. Go out the airport gate and do your sailing in deep playa outside the fence where you are supposed to go.

Awesome that you are so radically judgemental about something you clearly have no idea about. Totally in the spirit of burning man. Good on you.

It's just like talking to someone in mainstream society about burning man - they don't need any actual knowledge or understanding of the event to come to strong conclusions about what is right and wrong about it.

We should probably ban bikes - I hear a lot of people are riding them under the influence. Walking can also be quiet danegrous. Best if we all stay motionless wrapped in bubble wrap the whole week.

See you on the playa!

Token · Post by **Token** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:37 pm

I love popping bubble wrap!

It is like eating spoonfulls of peanut butter and licking your pallet for hours on end.

Are you bringing some bubble wrap?

vikb · Post by **vikb** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:26 am

Token wrote:Are you bringing some bubble wrap?

I heard Bob and Oldguy were brining the bubble wrap. I'll bring some tequila and Scrabble to add to the mix...

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:40 pm

Bob wrote:But maybe you should sell your ticket and go to a theme park if you just want thrill rides.

Yea because BM doesn't have anything like that at all right?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:50 pm

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:55 pm

Token wrote:I love popping bubble wrap!

You should try it in a wheel chair!

Oldguy · Post by **Oldguy** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:08 pm

vikb,
____________________
Civic Responsibility ( One of our Ten Principals )
We value civil society. Community members who organize events should assume responsibility for public welfare and endeavor to communicate civic responsibilities to participants. They must also assume responsibility for conducting events in accordance with local, state and federal laws.
____________________

IMHO, Endangering others is not acting responsibly. You can break your arm outside the fence ifn' you want to ride the edge, but don't put others in danger. It's a safety issue.

I don't want the Pershing County Sheriff to hear this: " I'm sorry officer, I didn't mean to hit and kill her, honest, I didn't ".

____________________
Pass the popcorn and peanut butter, please. Does anybody want some soda pop?

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:27 am

lol WOW...

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:01 am

Are people doing dangerous things on the playa? Oh, my!

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:49 am

Oldguy wrote: IMHO, Endangering others is not acting responsibly. You can break your arm outside the fence ifn' you want to ride the edge, but don't put others in danger. It's a safety issue.

I don't want the Pershing County Sheriff to hear this: " I'm sorry officer, I didn't mean to hit and kill her, honest, I didn't ".

Holy shit...
Yeah you're right, now that you mention it, I do seem to hear about lots of innocent bystanders being killed by power kiters screaming along out of control at a blistering 15 miles an hour.
They are very dangerous and should be banned. I won't stand for such reckless endangerment! These people are a menace more dangerous to public safety than any outlaw motorcycle gang.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:01 pm

We're not here to deeply probe why the BRC-DMV made up certain rules out of thin mountain air, we're only here to parrot them.

In a nutshell: the only vehicles that should be driven at Burning Man are radical examples of vehicle mutation or participation, service vehicles, and vehicles for folks who have a physical disability.
....
Wind-powered vehicles that are allowed to operate within Black Rock City must meet certain criteria. They must have a pivoting mast, must operate while the sailor is in a standing position, and must weigh no more than 50 pounds.
....
Kite-sailing vehicles, land yachts, and wind-powered vehicles that have a fixed mast and weigh more than 50 pounds are not allowed to operate within Black Rock City. You may take your wind-powered vehicle to the Black Rock Airport and operate/store it there.
....
5 mph (or less, if kicking up dust, or in hazardous situations such as tight crowds)

http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/playa_vehicles/
http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/ ... iving.html

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:13 pm

Bob wrote:We're not here to deeply probe why the BRC-DMV made up certain rules out of thin mountain air, we're only here to parrot them.

In a nutshell: the only vehicles that should be driven at Burning Man are radical examples of vehicle mutation or participation, service vehicles, and vehicles for folks who have a physical disability.
....
Wind-powered vehicles that are allowed to operate within Black Rock City must meet certain criteria. They must have a pivoting mast, must operate while the sailor is in a standing position, and must weigh no more than 50 pounds.
....
Kite-sailing vehicles, land yachts, and wind-powered vehicles that have a fixed mast and weigh more than 50 pounds are not allowed to operate within Black Rock City. You may take your wind-powered vehicle to the Black Rock Airport and operate/store it there.
....
5 mph (or less, if kicking up dust, or in hazardous situations such as tight crowds)

http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/playa_vehicles/
http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/ ... iving.html

sometimes, I do love sitting on my radio, listening to the couch........

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:18 pm

ygmir wrote:
Bob wrote:We're not here to deeply probe why the BRC-DMV made up certain rules out of thin mountain air, we're only here to parrot them.

In a nutshell: the only vehicles that should be driven at Burning Man are radical examples of vehicle mutation or participation, service vehicles, and vehicles for folks who have a physical disability.
....
Wind-powered vehicles that are allowed to operate within Black Rock City must meet certain criteria. They must have a pivoting mast, must operate while the sailor is in a standing position, and must weigh no more than 50 pounds.
....
Kite-sailing vehicles, land yachts, and wind-powered vehicles that have a fixed mast and weigh more than 50 pounds are not allowed to operate within Black Rock City. You may take your wind-powered vehicle to the Black Rock Airport and operate/store it there.
....
5 mph (or less, if kicking up dust, or in hazardous situations such as tight crowds)

http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/playa_vehicles/
http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/ ... iving.html
sometimes, I do love sitting on my radio, listening to the couch........

Do you need a sectional to get that in stereo?

vikb · Post by **vikb** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:19 pm

Bob wrote:We're not here to deeply probe why the BRC-DMV made up certain rules out of thin mountain air, we're only here to parrot them.

In a nutshell: the only vehicles that should be driven at Burning Man are radical examples of vehicle mutation or participation, service vehicles, and vehicles for folks who have a physical disability.
....
Wind-powered vehicles that are allowed to operate within Black Rock City must meet certain criteria. They must have a pivoting mast, must operate while the sailor is in a standing position, and must weigh no more than 50 pounds.
....
Kite-sailing vehicles, land yachts, and wind-powered vehicles that have a fixed mast and weigh more than 50 pounds are not allowed to operate within Black Rock City. You may take your wind-powered vehicle to the Black Rock Airport and operate/store it there.
....
5 mph (or less, if kicking up dust, or in hazardous situations such as tight crowds)

http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/playa_vehicles/
http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/ ... iving.html

Well Bob I have to give you credit for admitting you are just parroting a handful of rules written down to generically cover a 50,000+ event. And that you are not engaged in any radically intelligent analysis of the situation given what seems to be a complete lack of understanding of the specifics on your part. Knowing where we are coming from on an issue is critical and for sure any community needs parrots! Just like we need intelligent thoughtful people to challenge existing rules constructively. Balance is everything.

Oldguy wrote:vikb,
____________________
Civic Responsibility ( One of our Ten Principals )
We value civil society. Community members who organize events should assume responsibility for public welfare and endeavor to communicate civic responsibilities to participants. They must also assume responsibility for conducting events in accordance with local, state and federal laws.
____________________

IMHO, Endangering others is not acting responsibly. You can break your arm outside the fence ifn' you want to ride the edge, but don't put others in danger. It's a safety issue.

I don't want the Pershing County Sheriff to hear this: " I'm sorry officer, I didn't mean to hit and kill her, honest, I didn't ".
____________________
Pass the popcorn and peanut butter, please. Does anybody want some soda pop?

vikb wrote:When I get to BRC and finish setting up my camp I'm going to talk to the DMV and the rangers to see what they suggest and I'll go from there.

cheers,

Vik

As you can see from my intent to talk to the DMV and BRC Rangers before I do anything I clearly have zero consideration for the interests of the larger community....*sigh*

cheers,

Vik