Shame on you Burning Man Organization.........

the fire elf · Post by **the fire elf** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:59 pm

stereotypes... dollars...

the two have a sort of likeness

if you accept the power the dollar bequeaths you, you accept that it is also doing so elsewhere and in many different ways

if the party-throwers themselves have found new hardship or new ambition, shall we shame them for including?

and where shall you stand to announce the shame?

i would hope it's some wonderful vista with a better view of the crux of things

else we simply babble-on

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am

Imagine if your family was murdered,slaughtered,kidnapped put in boarding schools, had your people brainwashed and tortured and kicked off your land where you and your people lived for thousands of years.

Then imagine if you, as a surviving relative TODAY are forced into povery by things that happened hundreds of years ago.

Then imagine that your plight, your pain, and your families struggle has not only gone by the wayside, ignored, but has turned into an acceptable joke and subject of entertainment for the very people who murdered your family in the first place. with early TV depicting every native as a savage, or a mocking sports mascot running around with a peace pipe and tomahawk.

Then imagine this tiny plot of land they've given you, literally your backyard is in the way of a huge party, and thousands of people are going to trounce through your backyard, leaving trash, empty stores where you normally buy your food, having your children get ranover by speeders, and have those people critisize you as if you have no reason to complain.

Is this not most of us? Everything except the "forced into poverty" thing, which I don't know anyone who is "forced into poverty". Everyone I know, regardless of if they were born into a family that was well off or grew up in a shack with dirt floors, is successful if they work hard and is impoverished if they refuse to do hard work when required.

I understand the racial thing is another issue that many people do not have equal hardships with but again, those who seek to overcome those hardships do in every example I've ever seen in my life.

DoriumLux · Post by **DoriumLux** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:16 am

the fire elf wrote:stereotypes... dollars...

the two have a sort of likeness

if you accept the power the dollar bequeaths you, you accept that it is also doing so elsewhere and in many different ways

if the party-throwers themselves have found new hardship or new ambition, shall we shame them for including?

and where shall you stand to announce the shame?

i would hope it's some wonderful vista with a better view of the crux of things

else we simply babble-on

WTF? Sorry, I don't speak elf. I need translator please.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:41 am

the fire elf wrote:
else we simply babble-on

coming from the fire elf, do really need a translation for this ?

(just prodding you, elfie dude... you know I like looking at your pretty pictures and the babble that follows them)

Feel free to make some visual commentary based on the word babble now......

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:54 am

Imagine if your family was murdered,slaughtered,kidnapped put in boarding schools, had your people brainwashed and tortured and kicked off your land where you and your people lived for thousands of years.

Jesus, would you shut up you, knee-jerk, off-topic hippie fuck.

The original complaint is about her being pissed that ticket prices are going up. It ruined her day. She's angry and complaining about it.

Until you made it so, the original post was not about 1) racism 2) genocide 3) man's inhumanity to man 4) the white man's burden (Kipling) 5) the South or 6) your aching fucking need to sport your PC credentials.

Give it a fucking break.

Roberto Dobbisano · Post by **Roberto Dobbisano** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:01 am

NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER!

sorry, i have politically tourettes syndrome....

wow.......did somebody fart in the elevator?

i can hear a pin drop.

i'll just leave....you can all start the hating now....

poor michael richards, he got pee weed.

cutmeoffandcallmeshorty · Post by **cutmeoffandcallmeshorty** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:34 am

trenton"]
Im poor and cant afford the new 60k RV I want. I lost relitives in Auswich can you dirty hippies talk BM into gifting me one or sell me one for say 20k ....... whats the difference.[/quote]

I too lost a relative in Auswich during that horrible time in history.
My Grandfather fell out of the gaurd tower Drunk and broke his neck.

the fire elf · Post by **the fire elf** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:47 am

the fire elf · Post by **the fire elf** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:11 am

â€œMore important than innate disposition, objective experience, and
environment is the subjective evaluation of these. Furthermore, this
evaluation stands in a certain, often strange, relation to reality.â€

the fire elf · Post by **the fire elf** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:12 am

Projection is the most profound and subtle of our psychological
processes, and extremely difficult to work with, because by its nature, it is hidden.

Absolut Jeenyus · Post by **Absolut Jeenyus** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:30 am

DoriumLux wrote:
slvrnmph wrote:Pyramid Lake Woman, is seems like your only complaint here is that you have to deal with traffic once year. You are still getting very heavily discounted tickets.

I am genuinely interested to know what is so horribly disruptive to your daily life in this situation?
Wow. Really? Pull your head out of your ass. What is so horrible? Besides the fact that Native Americans are the most disenfranchised group in the entire country? The fact that burners dump crap on their land, visit the lake without permits, and have damaged tribal property? How about the burden they put on the community when someone has an accident or they have to trash removal due to burners recklessness? How about the fact that the US government has robbed them blind, killed their people and have a long legacy of abusing their rights? Now again, please ask a Native what they have to complain about.

The least Burning Man could do is give them discounted tickets if you ask me at the previous years rates.

How about the fact they make multi millions of dollars from burners in a month? I know they aren't complaining. Besides, the US government robs all of us blind. Pull your head out of your own ass.

Mekishiko · Post by **Mekishiko** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:55 am

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/13/ ... index.html

on cnn now

H.G.Crosby · Post by **H.G.Crosby** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:16 am

NOW GETTING IT READY, FOR YOU!

[youtube][/youtube]

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:06 am

DoriumLux wrote:? Are you also implying that the south is a race? Oh, the irony!

Smells like bigotry to me.

To class the south as a group/type/culture and then say it doesn't really count as bigotry...
It doesn't wash.
Attacking the south is the last acceptable racism to many people in this country.

Your preconceptions are showing.
And not the first time.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:32 am

MikeVDS wrote:
Is this not most of us? Everything except the "forced into poverty" thing, which I don't know anyone who is "forced into poverty". Everyone I know, regardless of if they were born into a family that was well off or grew up in a shack with dirt floors, is successful if they work hard and is impoverished if they refuse to do hard work when required.

I understand the racial thing is another issue that many people do not have equal hardships with but again, those who seek to overcome those hardships do in every example I've ever seen in my life.

However off topic it might be, Dorium Lux's point is being lost in the historyonics.

The current situation on many tribal lands is indeed a case of being trapped in poverty or having to take the leap, possibly into worse circumstances.
It is fairly unique that one might have to leave a home they can afford and lose the only social network they have and not have a chance to replace it with anything comparable.

I have been trapped in a home I can't afford to leave, and I am now taking that loss to move to worse or better circumstances.
But it can not be compared to leaving one's culture and family.

The conditions on many tribal lands are indeed shocking and it is not the result of ancient wrongs, but actions of the government recent and current that affect people that are there now.
It is a very complex subject and different in each area, but there are things that the government (us) can and should be doing now to help.
They at least deserve the same breaks people in other places in this country get.

Conditions vary and I simply don't know enough about the Paiute area to comment, though I have always wanted to meet more of them.

DoriumLux · Post by **DoriumLux** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:05 am

Absolut Jeenyus wrote:
DoriumLux wrote:
slvrnmph wrote:Pyramid Lake Woman, is seems like your only complaint here is that you have to deal with traffic once year. You are still getting very heavily discounted tickets.

I am genuinely interested to know what is so horribly disruptive to your daily life in this situation?
Wow. Really? Pull your head out of your ass. What is so horrible? Besides the fact that Native Americans are the most disenfranchised group in the entire country? The fact that burners dump crap on their land, visit the lake without permits, and have damaged tribal property? How about the burden they put on the community when someone has an accident or they have to trash removal due to burners recklessness? How about the fact that the US government has robbed them blind, killed their people and have a long legacy of abusing their rights? Now again, please ask a Native what they have to complain about.

The least Burning Man could do is give them discounted tickets if you ask me at the previous years rates.
How about the fact they make multi millions of dollars from burners in a month? I know they aren't complaining. Besides, the US government robs all of us blind. Pull your head out of your own ass.

Again, where do you get your stats? What the hell. Pull my head out of my own ass? This just keeps getting worse and worse. There is a couple gas stations on tribal land and a couple taco stands. There are also a few small shops and several high school related car washes. When your nearby neighborhood gas station/liquor mart makes a few bucks do you get a cut? What kind of silly logic is that? What the hell makes you think that the few people who do make money give everyone else a cut? It's not communally owned. Get a grip and they are definitely not making millions let alone multi millions. Again, you miss your mark and the point.

Quit peacocking your stupidity. It isn't flattering.

Whether or not she deserves a ticket is irrelevant at this point. I agreed that technically Burning Man doesn't owe her anything. However, the uneducated remarks and "facts" that are posted by certain individuals continue to be blinding in the amount of stupidity they betray. Silliness.

DoriumLux · Post by **DoriumLux** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:11 am

gyre wrote:
MikeVDS wrote:
Is this not most of us? Everything except the "forced into poverty" thing, which I don't know anyone who is "forced into poverty". Everyone I know, regardless of if they were born into a family that was well off or grew up in a shack with dirt floors, is successful if they work hard and is impoverished if they refuse to do hard work when required.

I understand the racial thing is another issue that many people do not have equal hardships with but again, those who seek to overcome those hardships do in every example I've ever seen in my life.
However off topic it might be, Dorium Lux's point is being lost in the historyonics.

The current situation on many tribal lands is indeed a case of being trapped in poverty or having to take the leap, possibly into worse circumstances.
It is fairly unique that one might have to leave a home they can afford and lose the only social network they have and not have a chance to replace it with anything comparable.

I have been trapped in a home I can't afford to leave, and I am now taking that loss to move to worse or better circumstances.
But it can not be compared to leaving one's culture and family.

The conditions on many tribal lands are indeed shocking and it is not the result of ancient wrongs, but actions of the government recent and current that affect people that are there now.
It is a very complex subject and different in each area, but there are things that the government (us) can and should be doing now to help.
They at least deserve the same breaks people in other places in this country get.

Conditions vary and I simply don't know enough about the Paiute area to comment, though I have always wanted to meet more of them.

Thank you for posting something with sincerity and substance. It's refreshing.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:23 am

DoriumLux wrote:d"]
She isn't a troll. I've read her other posts. Have you? Asking people to drive carefully through the reservation or giving people advice on kayak rentals at the lake stirring up shit? Really???

Maybe, she has a life or intermittent access to internet. Hard to fathom for some of you I imagine.

Hell, I hope she never has the opportunity to read the embarrassing shit that so many people have written here. It's a shame.

Yep, if you go back you will see I have responded to most of her posts.

And maybe I have to go through the rez every week, and maybe sometimes I don't have a fucking life, and maybe I have to do the fucking cow salom in the middle of the fucking night on hwy 447 because the tribe is running their cows on the highway. So fucking much for our

SAFETY

Hadn't seen a cow on the highway all summer long till the other night, wonder

WHY

Must be getting a better price from the insurance companies then the sale yard right now. You have good insurance right?

Back to the original topic, maybe the people she should be sniveling about are the tribe, possibly for not posting the info and letting people know, I found out in June and made my adjustments. It has been public knowledge up here all summer. And she is just now whining about it?

Adjust and get on with it if you want to go, or stay the fuck home and cry.

SageV · Post by **SageV** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:16 pm

Wow, this topic has gone knee deep in trolls who just aren't getting their jolly's trying to rankle people.

First of all, as for the plight of the native people...most of us weren't Americans when that all happened, but many of us share an ancestoral history in europe of being forced off our land into poverty. Does anybody think the greedy and rapacious would be any different before they came to the early Americas? So, why that's an argument against BMORG or anyone on eplaya adding information into the debate is beyond me. It's a red herring argument.

If the local tribes we pass through on the way to Burning Man need something from our community, they should talk to us. I do what they ask, I don't speed through their communities, I patronize their businesses, I respect the laws of their lands and listen and talk to them. They aren't shy about their opinions of us, but I'm not hearing anything talking to them one-on-one that I'm hearing on eplaya.

Until I hear different, I think its time to ignore the opinions of faceless names on a screen full of vitrol and anger.

the fire elf · Post by **the fire elf** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:12 am

the fire elf · Post by **the fire elf** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:15 am

the fire elf · Post by **the fire elf** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:35 am

[b][i][u]click[/u][/i][/b] wrote:Not everyone with Tourette's wants treatment or a "cure", especially if that means they may "lose" something else in the process. Some people
believe that there may be latent advantages associated with genetic vulnerability to the syndrome. There is evidence to support the clinical
lore that children with "TS-only" (Tourette's in the absence of comorbid conditions) are unusually gifted: neuropsychological studies have
identified advantages in children with TS-only. One study found that children with TS-only are faster than the average for their age group on
timed motor coordination.

mayavin · Post by **mayavin** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:08 pm

Sense of entitlement has to do with emotional attachment beyond practical benefit and usefulness to an entity's perceivable physical
survival. The myriad of ways a sense of entitlement can arise include legal claim, length of time spent with the object, birthright, labour
exerted, labour not exerted, comparative social standing, inheritance, perspective, lack of perspective, etc. Practitioners of religious traditions
such as Buddhism, Jainism, even the three major western religious traditions consciously aspire to extricate from or modify non-practical
emotional attachment in some form. There are branches of philosophy which deal exclusively with such modifications such as Stoicism.

Pyramid Lake Woman wrote:In a way it was like compensation for all the BS that is associated with the burdening traffic (that's how I took it).......

ice is water, water is ice... any akward cumbersomeness is a matter of practicality and techno-efficacy

if you like the event, you'd like people to be there, yourself included

noticing the dry lake bed, can't stay there, soo, perhaps a bit of tolerance and compassion while what you want there gets there

if the economy was designed on compensation of BS, it would be even further from the gifting

more BS would drive prosperity

i doubt that's what you'd want

i'd have loved to go every year since finding it

and the ones before too

practicality threw it's weight around, and alas, has not been

but it's a shadow that flits around and wobbles a bit, so i know it'll come around again, like clockwork

shall i feel joy or pain, with soo many footsteps betwixt?

or wrap my head on the reality before me, and wish you well?

Boijoy · Post by **Boijoy** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:06 pm

ok,, ok,, you know like .. how when your REALLY high at a party? So high you've stopped talking & can hear bits & pieces of conversations around you?? You have the brainiacs talking about history,, some really stoned people of different colors & backgrounds talking about hate & politics.. dude in the corner is sitting & staring at you.. the invironment becomes a little hostile.
THEN you have Fire Elf. Fire Elf shows up with the most RANDOM shit that REALLY messes with your mind?!? THAT is this thread.

I'm sticking w/ Iso. for some reason I feel safe w/ Iso. Could be the picture of Grace.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:20 pm

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Boijoy · Post by **Boijoy** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:29 pm

I forgot about laughing guy.. he's there also.

Mekishiko · Post by **Mekishiko** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:35 pm

Uhmm yeah whatever. except for the fact that I put the image of the confederate flag, not Dorium.

ugggh.

[quote="gyre"][quote="DoriumLux"]? Are you also implying that the south is a race? Oh, the irony![/quote]
Smells like bigotry to me.

To class the south as a group/type/culture and then say it doesn't really count as bigotry...
It doesn't wash.
Attacking the south is the last acceptable racism to many people in this country.

Your preconceptions are showing.
And not the first time.[/quote]

Marscrumbs · Post by **Marscrumbs** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:06 pm

Let see, complaining that Burning Man is disrupting your lives while you still plan to attend. That reminds me of the dinner review: "The food was absolutely inedible. And the portions were too small!?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:14 pm

Boijoy wrote:ok,, ok,, you know like .. how when your REALLY high at a party? So high you've stopped talking & can hear bits & pieces of conversations around you?? You have the brainiacs talking about history,, some really stoned people of different colors & backgrounds talking about hate & politics.. dude in the corner is sitting & staring at you.. the invironment becomes a little hostile.
THEN you have Fire Elf. Fire Elf shows up with the most RANDOM shit that REALLY messes with your mind?!? THAT is this thread.

I'm sticking w/ Iso. for some reason I feel safe w/ Iso. Could be the picture of Grace.

Don't forget the two guys in the corner that spend the entire party giving each other five!
We all know who that is.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:13 am

gyre wrote: Don't forget the two guys in the corner that spend the entire party giving each other five!
We all know who that is.

Yes we do...It's Apollonaris Zeus, and I think you were higher than you remember yourself.

That was a mirror he was standing next to in the corner.

Shame on you Burning Man Organization.........

Camp

Re: Troll?

Something doesn't add up.