Mutant Vehicle insurance

grebs · Post by **grebs** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:02 am

Hi, MVers.

So what can anyone tell us about insurance for mutant vehicles on-playa?

Questions I have go something like this:
- Do insurance companies flake and avoid liability coverage for your vehicle since it has been modified?
- or because it is on the playa? ("off-road")
- or because it's at an event with lots of drunken whackos? (driver not included there :-)
- Do they cover other drivers who were not specifically listed?
- Is there an insurance company that specifically does short-term event coverage?

My MV is based on a mini-bus, regestered as an RV, and may have 14 people on it at a time, so the chance of trouble is increased.

-Pork
Shai-Hulud wrangler-in-chief

oleg8888 · Post by **oleg8888** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:58 am

Never thought I'd say that, I mean I really hate when I read replies like "do a search, this topic has been covered before".

But here goes nothing.........

Do a search, this topic has been covered before.

Uh, what a hell, I'll do it myself

http://tinyurl.com/m53hbp

Igneouss · Post by **Igneouss** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:05 pm

Maybe I'm wrong... but stressing about insuring a mutant vehicle and Burning Man just don't seem to belong in the same universe....

BitterDan · Post by **BitterDan** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:55 pm

The biggest problem you'll run into if you wreck your MV or hurt someone or damage someone's property is when your insurance company tells you that you are not covered because you were off-roading.

Marscrumbs · Post by **Marscrumbs** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:29 pm

If somebody trys to sue you show the court the legalise on back of the ticket.

BitterDan · Post by **BitterDan** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:33 pm

Unfortunately legal-ese does not cover negligence.

phil · Post by **phil** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:56 pm

Marscrumbs wrote:If somebody trys to sue you show the court the legalise on back of the ticket.

The problem is, people don't "try" to sue you. The file an action against you in court, then you have to defend against the complaint. How you do this varies by state, but generally you would file an answer admitting some allegations (yes I was at Burning Man, yes I ran over his legs) and denying some (no it wasn't my negligence, no it wasn't my intention), then stating some defenses (he contributed by being negligent in his own right, and he assumed the risk by being at Burning Man). You'd through it a bunch of other stuff, because you may not get the case thrown out. Since you've filed some defenses and maybe some counterclaims, he gets to file and answer. Then you can file your motion to have his complaint dismissed. He may say it's premature and ask for time for discovery. The judge will find in his favor. Then you each send each other interrogatories and requests for admissions. Then you schedule depositions; each of you hires a court reporter, and you show up somewhere and his lawyer asks you questions which you answer under oath; then you ask him questions which he answers under oath. Then you each order and pay for transcripts of the depositions. But just in case you lose, you'll have to depose his doctors and other witnesses. They're experts, and they have to be paid; and of course the court reporters and transcripts have to be ordered. Then you both file motions for various things, and that's when you file again to dismiss the complaint.

Maybe you'll win. It still will have cost a ton of money. If you don't have depositions in your home town, you have to travel where ever they're held and pay for lodging and meals. You have to pay for copies of all the stuff requested in the interrogatories. You have to pay for the court reporter. You have to pay for the transcript. And that's assuming you don't hire a lawyer. And that you win. And that he doesn't appeal your victory. And win.

Some guy sued BMOrg in San Francisco recently because he fell and burned himself in the pyre after the Burn. He lost, appealed, and lost. What do you think that cost BMORg to win?

Winning costs a small fortune. Losing costs a big one.

Of course, if you're insured, you insurance company pays it all up to their policy limits.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:13 pm

wounder if home owners insur would cover if some one is hurt by my garden tractor?? Think the agent is a burner.. don't know if i can trust him..but i'll ask..

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:16 pm

so many people play with off road toys these day.. there must be some kind of insurance you can get

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:48 pm

Look at umbrella liability.
You can insure a track car.
It can be done.

Financial leverage helps to get a fair price.

Or you could simply be hard to collect from.
Attorneys hate that.

Easy to sue.
Harder to collect in most cases.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:53 pm

gyre wrote:Look at umbrella liability.
You can insure a track car.
It can be done.

Financial leverage helps to get a fair price.

Or you could simply be hard to collect from.
Attorneys hate that.

Easy to sue.
Harder to collect in most cases.

would be good to help pay med bills if some one is hurt playing on my toys..

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:01 pm

That would be liability insurance.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:45 pm

I carry a broadform insurance policy, that covers me in any vehicle I drive. It's my guess that's the best thing you can do about this... but I suppose I should talk to my agent one of these days about it.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:35 am

I used to be a lawyer in New Jersey, and the firm I worked for had a judgment against a group of people. There was a neighborhood marching band - not school or other organization, just the neighborhood kids. The parents chipped in a bought a bus to take the kids to parades, and someone had an accident driving the bus and hit someone. We represented the victim in the accident, and we got a judgment for the full amount of the damages against each parent in that neighborhood. None of them had the money to pay it, so we filed liens on every house and waited. Any time someone sold, a title report would show our client's lien and we'd get some of the money from the sale plus accumulated interest.

It's a sucky situation for both sides, since the injured person didn't get money for damages up front when the expenses were incurred, and the parents had to give up equity in their homes when they wanted (or had) to sell and move. When you get a judgment against you and you can't pay it, it shows up as a lien on whatever records you have, even if you don't own real estate. And you'll have collection lawyers and collection agencies on your phone with you earnestly trying to help you figure out a way to pay that judgment off.

I know insurance costs money, and I sincerely it's wasted because it's never needed. But it's worth it in my very humble opinion.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:37 pm

I believe Doc Pyro has said that you can get the same sort of insurance that you get for a parade float.

And if there's a serious injury or death, you can expect a lawsuit. And if that stuff on the back of the ticket counted for anything then it would get the llc off the hook, not you.