Why you shouldn't fire an ak-47 in a studio apartment...

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:04 am

You might miss burning man. I fucked up...and tried this. So I won't be going this year. I did make it to 4th of Juplaya and it was fucking incredible! Y'all have almost perfect playa conditions to look forward to. Have a great time! And don't shoot guns in your home!

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:16 am

no fair posting that and not giving details........

FrankA · Post by **FrankA** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:17 am

lolwut?

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:30 am

Just cause you think you removed the magazine doesn't always make it so. Accidental discharge. Yeah I know, a 30 round mag is hard to miss but I missed it. Charged it, to eject the "remaining" round, and dry fired it...but it wasn't dry. Got a misdemeanor and no more than 60 days, hopefully with just an ankle bracelette. Gonna have to give you that absinthe next year YGMIR.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:52 am

Damn, hopefully it left a nice "peephole" to a cute neighbor's bathroom ??

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:05 am

All guns are loaded, by definition.

Assume that anyway.

Take a firearms safety class, it may save more than BM.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:06 am

TomServo wrote:Just cause you think you removed the magazine doesn't always make it so. Accidental discharge. Yeah I know, a 30 round mag is hard to miss but I missed it. Charged it, to eject the "remaining" round, and dry fired it...but it wasn't dry. Got a misdemeanor and no more than 60 days, hopefully with just an ankle bracelette. Gonna have to give you that absinthe next year YGMIR.

dang, dang, and dang again......I had a similar almost accident......
not me, but a friend, in highschool, was cleaning his lever action. Racked it several times to make sure it was empty. but, as can happen, a shell hung up in the tube and came in on the last "rack"......

I looked over as he was cleaning it, and, the muzzle was pointed right at my ear, I said "hey" be safe,, and hit the barrel with my hand away, to prove my point. when I did that, it went off. going right out the roof.......dang......

I'm sorry you're not coming out, and, am sorry not to get to sample your absinthe....in that order.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:34 am

I've been playing with firearms most of my life and lived in the desert where everyone had them- usually sitting around leaning up against walls in rooms. The military helped me clean up my skills somewhat, but not honestly as much as people think.

I've known folks that claimed cleaning accidents. I simply cannot understand it. No, I have never had an accidental misfiring happen in my home. Ever. I don't even understand how it can happen.

You didn't have the safety on? And you didn't use the action slide lock to ensure clear view of the chamber? If you don't have a lock, hold open the action and verify you are clear.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:20 pm

Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
Come on, help me out with the litany.

I've been monkeying around with guns all my life, in the Navy and National Guard, never had even a close call (ok once a deck gun went off too close to my unprotected ears, but that wasn't my fault). I think that it's due strictly following boring safety precepts.

Oldguy · Post by **Oldguy** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:44 pm

My mom one time showed my dad that the rifle was empty by pointing it at a window and pulling the trigger. Promptly blowing said hole in window frame. Didn't break the window though, and we had a handy hole to feed the TV cable through. All guns are loaded until you know otherwise.

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:58 pm

The gun sitting leaning against a wall somewhere with ammunition also nearby is the reason Caleb is no longer with us. I accepted that gun leaning against the wall because I was a guest in his home and had just arrived there for the first time. I will never accept a gun leaning against the wall ever again.

The GOP and NRA have an active campaign going on now against Obama's suggestion last week of the creation of a gun registry and the requirement of a firearms' safety course prior to purchasing a gun.

There is good common sense to Obama's suggestion but many are set against what they view as an impingement on their right to carry.

My argument is that you have to register your car, what's wrong with registering your gun. You have to take a drivers test so why not a firearms course and test.

We have one more rule here in Canada that you may or may not agree with but I think it makes sense. Guns are to be stored in a secure locker with a lock. Ammunition must be stored in a separate locker, also with a lock. I appreciate this rule and a good gun handler would too in my opinion.

I was a range safety officer in the Canadian Reserves but that was 25 years ago. I wish I had used more common sense and my training when I saw Caleb's rifle leaning against the wall. I should have asked him to put it away somewhere so it wasn't so handy. I will be forced to live with that mistake for the rest of my life.

Tom, I hope you get to the playa next year. And I hope everyone here will consider supporting the common sense ideas that Obama has on this issue.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:35 pm

Sorry Deb.

You and I are on different sides here.
In more then one way.

I will never register any of my firearms.
I always have firearms leaning in the corners.

I would never accept the Canadian system here.

Never had a firearm accident.

Helped out on one though, another story that I will not go into here though.

I try to give fair warning they are there.
I will put them in a closet if asked.

Just don't preach to me how to handle my firearms though....

Like I said Deb, different sides, but thats ok.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:37 pm

Some guns are much more difficult to handle safely than others.

My friend never had an accident after many thousands of rounds fired until he took a safety course and used that dry fire to check technique and shot his pillow.
Pillow stopped the round too.

I sleep with guns within reach.
It's a 24 hour thing.
No safety, but a very hard to fire dao.
The smaller one uses a halfcock, so takes more caution when chambered.
Both should resist a drop to concrete.
No kids and no morons around, or I would lock up.

Kid safety- I was first trained in gun safety at 4 or 5.
Worked for me.

Had breakfast the other day next to the district attorney, just behind him.
I was very grubby after an 18 hour night with tires and fully armed.
My friend had a non-concealed 45 on the hip.
It was a pleasant breakfast.
Quite a change from the days they denied permits for anyone in serious danger.
Only the rich and powerful could defend themselves.

Then went to kangaroo court the other day and they use metal detectors at the door.
Granted they did wave me around them a few times.

My only real fear is shooting myself in the hand while drawing hot.
Training, training, training.

Tom, I can't believe they came after you for an accident if no one got hurt.
We have idiots here firing out the front door and nothing happens.
Hell, thousands of rounds of auto fire in the neighborhood one year and no cops.
I saw 20 rounds exchanged between two cars side by side once.
The police took a report.

Deb, was that an accident?

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:40 pm

Deb, was that an accident?

No it wasn't.

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:57 pm

Goathead, I know you and I are on different sides of this issue but you had the courtesy to warn me about your gun so I knew where it was. Not all gun handlers are good ones and few are as courteous as you.

Sorry if I sounded preachy, I was trying to add another example to how people get hurt with guns. You're right though I shouldn't try to impose Canadian gun rules on Americans. You folks need to make your own choices. Now you know what ours have been. It works for us.

Gyre,
Caleb suffered from PTSD and I don't know why he suddenly changed moods when he did. I saw the change in his eyes, and despite my best effort to stop him, he grabbed the gun and the ammo, loaded it and shot himself.

Maybe folks who have mental illness or the ones who love them should consider providing for their own safety by locking up the guns and ammo.

And since Goathead has told me I can't be preachy...

I'll just say that if Caleb had had access to mental health care, he would still be around to fuck yer day and mine. But you folks need to make that choice about health care too. Our system works well for us, and that's all I got to say on that.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:59 pm

That's very rough.
You mustn't blame yourself in any way though.

Sometimes intervention helps with an impulse, but I don't think anything can help other people.
A friend of mine shot herself and I think I was the last person to talk to her.
But i don't know for sure.

I didn't even know it happened until many years later.
The family assures me that many people had intervened many times and no one knew what else to do.
They feel I probably helped delay things.
Everyone is so different.
Still...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:09 pm

Deb Prothero wrote:

Maybe folks who have mental illness or the ones who love them should consider providing for their own safety by locking up the guns and ammo.

And since Goathead has told me I can't be preachy... I'll just say that if Caleb had had access to mental health care, he would still be around to fuck yer day and mine. But you folks need to make that choice about health care too. Our system works well for us, and that's all I got to say on that.

We definitely need to get rid of the health care denial industry here.
True about mental health care too.

But the rules about mental health and guns are already causing many to avoid any psychological treatment here.
You would have to really be crazy to get treated under your own name now.

If Obama is really proposing that, kiss him goodbye.
He's done.
Might as well call in the republicans and crown one.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:14 pm

Deb

Preaching is ok, your a strong gal, wouldn't expect anything less from you.

And you take it well when others disagree with you, Thank You.

Maybe folks who have mental illness or the ones who love them should consider providing for their own safety by locking up the guns and ammo.

and this is 100% right on.

As are some other points you bring up.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:22 pm

Most people with even very severe mental illness will never harm anyone, including themselves.

We are currently testing this in place in the usa with lack of care, and it is true.

I would think depression would be a bigger factor.

**burn** · Post by **burn** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:15 pm

I am probably unable to convince you to take up arms, just as you are probably unable to convince me to put mine down.

"Common Sense" is such a ridiculous term. The US has over 20,000 gun laws on the books. Are none of those common sense enough?

Last I heard, heroin and rape are illegal. Yet you read about it everyday in the newspaper.

More laws are not the answer.

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:26 pm

Deb Prothero wrote:The gun sitting leaning against a wall somewhere with ammunition also nearby is the reason Caleb is no longer with us. I accepted that gun leaning against the wall because I was a guest in his home and had just arrived there for the first time. I will never accept a gun leaning against the wall ever again.

The GOP and NRA have an active campaign going on now against Obama's suggestion last week of the creation of a gun registry and the requirement of a firearms' safety course prior to purchasing a gun.

There is good common sense to Obama's suggestion but many are set against what they view as an impingement on their right to carry.

My argument is that you have to register your car, what's wrong with registering your gun. You have to take a drivers test so why not a firearms course and test.

We have one more rule here in Canada that you may or may not agree with but I think it makes sense. Guns are to be stored in a secure locker with a lock. Ammunition must be stored in a separate locker, also with a lock. I appreciate this rule and a good gun handler would too in my opinion.

I was a range safety officer in the Canadian Reserves but that was 25 years ago. I wish I had used more common sense and my training when I saw Caleb's rifle leaning against the wall. I should have asked him to put it away somewhere so it wasn't so handy. I will be forced to live with that mistake for the rest of my life.

Tom, I hope you get to the playa next year. And I hope everyone here will consider supporting the common sense ideas that Obama has on this issue.

When the time comes that the government is clearly the enemy of the people and armed revolt is the only answer. your primary weapon will not be your car. Anything that must be registered is easy to take away. The only real reason for firearms registration is to eventually take them away.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:30 pm

Deb Prothero wrote:
The GOP and NRA have an active campaign going on now against Obama's suggestion last week of the creation of a gun registry and the requirement of a firearms' safety course prior to purchasing a gun.

There is good common sense to Obama's suggestion but many are set against what they view as an impingement on their right to carry.

My argument is that you have to register your car, what's wrong with registering your gun. You have to take a drivers test so why not a firearms course and test.

Tom, I hope you get to the playa next year. And I hope everyone here will consider supporting the common sense ideas that Obama has on this issue.

Forget the gop.
If Obama tries any further "gun control", the democrats will boot him out next time.
We need to go the other direction now.

They promised the social security card would not be an ID.
Now it is.
Etc etc.
And our driving license has become an international ID.

I hope canadian politics are different, but here we know the pattern.

And I don't think I should have to register my car if I operate safely.
Just a tax approach.

With no mass transit, cars are not a privelege.
They are needed to live.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:50 pm

Deb, I do agree with you that everybody should have access to not only mental health, but I'd also like to throw in physical health care as well.

There was an article a day or 2 back in 1 of the 2 Detroit papers about the Canadian Health Ministry making arrangements with hospitals in the States to provide certain care to Ca. citizens that would have to wait forever to get in Ca, namely cardiac, oncology and bariatric comes to mind.

I have found that in my job, when people become so inclined to commit suicide, they can be resourceful and use many tools at their disposal. Mental health problems are often over-looked, or not realized until it is too late. Please continue to get the word out to people on the signs and symptoms to look for.

But I also very strongly agree with Goathead. I will never register my guns with the gov't. As a matter of fact, my wife and I are ramping up our handgun shooting/practice. We intend to get our CCW/CPL as soon as possible. They already have their record on those guns, and that is all they will get. As far as the govt is concerned, all long guns I've purchased have been sold

and any future purchases will be done from owner to owner.

We try to be responsible gun owners. Guns in 1 safe, with trigger locks, and unloaded. Ammo stored in a seperate gun safe. Different locks so even if you have access to one, you dont have access to the other.

Guns are a very touchy subject. I try to allay concerns by being a responsible owner.

BTW, they are re-making Red Dawn. Filming here in the D. I await with gleeful abandon

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:07 pm

I loved Red Dawn.......

and to clear up for Rob the Wop:

I was not the one handling the gun.
I have not had an "accidental discharge", either.
I have, though, several times, found rounds in guns that were supposedly unloaded......
I always check.....

my friend and I were cleaning our guns, after a day of hunting. I was cleaning my bolt action, and, had the bolt out.
When I saw the unsafe practice of my friend, and, that it was threatening me, I immediately knocked the gun away from me, and, that's when it went off......I can't speak for his knowledge, other than to say he screwed something up.....and, that I never went hunting or shooting with him, again.........we were both 16, and, avid hunters.......I just felt he was to unsafe to be around with guns after that......

I am an avid gun person, and, agree with GH and others........
I'd say to Deb:
preach on, it's your right, and your opinion matters. But,
be prepared to be contradicted.....

Lots of people try to compare Canada to the U.S. and, I think, for the most part, it's apples and oranges.......

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:10 pm

Good news about Red Dawn, even if it's bad, it will be good !!

Wolverines !!!

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:23 pm

ygmir wrote: I'd say to Deb:
preach on, it's your right, and your opinion matters. But,
be prepared to be contradicted.....

i'll second this ... i love debate, and it often seems people find it impolite to disagree in an open minded, conversational manner. your ideas are interesting and important, Deb! i love hearing the POV of foreigners.

i'm a gun hater who is absolutely on the side of not registering ... aside from other considerations already mentioned, i fear it would endanger the balance of good gun owners, and illegal/bad gun owners who will never register their guns anyhow.

i also wonder why - or whether - mental health issues have increased so much in recent decades? or do people think it was just suppressed in that past?

**burn** · Post by **burn** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:32 pm

littleflower wrote: i also wonder why - or whether - mental health issues have increased so much in recent decades? or do people think it was just suppressed in that past?

We are either going crazier or have not managed our coping skills appropriately.

My 73yo dad used to bring his guns to school to show his buddies or go hunting afterward. The difference is he didn't nut up and shoot a bunch of people. The concept of consideration and politeness to others is different today, comparatively.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:46 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:All guns are loaded, by definition.

Assume that anyway.

Take a firearms safety class, it may save more than BM.

.

I follow this rule. Which is why I had the rifle pointed in the safest direction (up) when I attempted to dry fire. Basically I broke my own rule. "Never keep a loaded gun in my house." There is no intelligent excuse for my fuck up. I've taken safety courses and this never should have happened. I guess its easy to say stupid mistakes should never happen, but after driving a truck for several years...watching how people drive, I guess common sense isn't always common.

I've lost count, as to how many people almost comitted suicide with my tractor\trailer. I know of one, who did.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:38 pm

In Texas and California, you have to pass a Fed criminal check before a firearm purchase. In Texas it can take a few minutes, in California, it takes a 10 day waiting period. I don't think Obama is going to push the registration thing. Not now, maybe not ever. I have mixed feelings about the registration thing. Yes, if you are living with kids or people who suffer from any form of mental- psychological illness, keep the weapons locked, stored and locked and unloaded.

If you gotta dry fire fer God's sake point at a bunch of sand bags or a stack of substantial wood.

And why wasn't this in Guns Love Em or Leave Em ?

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:26 pm

Should have used snap caps. Hate keeping spent shells in my shotgun, but damned things cocked every time you open it and close it. Cop went ballistic when he opened it. Apparently didn't notice the pin marks on the primers. Starting to fall in love with airsoft guns.

Why you shouldn't fire an ak-47 in a studio apartment...

Why you shouldn't fire an ak-47 in a studio apartment...

No comprehende

,