R.V. VS. Tenting it....

clayboy · Post by **clayboy** » Fri May 07, 2004 3:25 pm

Any thoughts? pluses and minuses....any variables if your joining a camp??

Any feedback would be awesome....

Hugggggs & Kissssez

clayboy

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Fri May 07, 2004 3:40 pm

If it's your first time and you have no health problems that require it, forget the RV. It isolates you and removes you from the shared experience of dealing with the environment with those around you. Plus, it costs a ton.

If you've been a few times and clearly established that you're not just a tourist, then you're socially allowed to bring an RV.

Icepack · Post by **Icepack** » Fri May 07, 2004 5:47 pm

If you already own an RV which you use regularly and are adept at maintaining, etc. go for it. It's nice to be sleeping on something besides the ground for a week.

If you don't already have one, then save yourself the expense and just get a good tent. It's a lot cheaper. Also it's easier to travel with and will be better on gas mileage, etc.

Bob A · Post by **Bob A** » Fri May 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Dork wrote: It isolates you and removes you from the shared experience of dealing with the environment with those around you. .

I don't buy this crap that a RV isolates you and makes you a tourist. I've been rebuilding a 25-year-old trailer for the last 6 months that I bought for $300. I'm a virgin and all I plan on using it for is sleeping in and maybe ducking out of any really bad weather. Besides that I'm going to be walking around, participating, or sitting under my shade structure outside.

Someone could as easy isolate themselves by staying in a large tent all the time or camping in their van, like many people do. Heck some camp designs can isolate people, parking all the cars around the perimeter of the camp could cut you off. A really cool shade dome could cut you off from people.

Bottom line regardless of what you bring to sleep in, your mindset and attitude will determine whether you are isolated or part of the community.

Bob A

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Fri May 07, 2004 10:06 pm

Bob A wrote:Bottom line regardless of what you bring to sleep in, your mindset and attitude will determine whether you are isolated or part of the community.

That's the best part right there! First timers last year, me and two friends brought an OLD 1960 bus out, no AC, but great to cook and sleep and cleanup in, had a big shade canopy stretched off one side to nap and relax in. Getting a big rig out and back is its own special radical self-reliance. Going to do it again in a few months...so much yet to do!!

What did you do last time Clayboy? In future years I may try the dome living thing, that looks like a good challenge. Still LOVE you and your BOOTS !!

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Fri May 07, 2004 10:32 pm

I don't buy this crap that a RV isolates you and makes you a tourist ... I'm a virgin and all I plan on

If you've never been, how do you know it won't isolate you? It's certainly not a guarantee, but it makes it much easier.

clayboy · Post by **clayboy** » Fri May 07, 2004 10:52 pm

I tented it last time--but the parents have an RV--I think i wanna borrow it from them this time...seems more comfortable and I can haul more of my costumes and fun stuff to share...I just need to find a camp that will let me hang with them with the RV and my wild children friends....

huggggs & kisses

clayboy

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Fri May 07, 2004 11:59 pm

Hey Clayboy - you seem like a real freak of nature... and the kind of guy that livens up any party!
I bring an RV. It's GREAT to have a nice hot shower and a kitchen, and I can't tell you how nice it is to sleep off last night's socializing with the A/C on. Some people seem to think that you're less of a "real" burner if you don't suffer enough... and smell bad enough... I like being able to escape the playa to eat/sleep/clean up...
Almost all the anti-RV buzz is about isolating yourself from the desert being a bad thing; every now and then I think it's a pretty damn good thing.

Icepack · Post by **Icepack** » Sat May 08, 2004 9:28 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:Hey Clayboy - you seem like a real freak of nature... and the kind of guy that livens up any party!
I bring an RV. It's GREAT to have a nice hot shower and a kitchen, and I can't tell you how nice it is to sleep off last night's socializing with the A/C on. Some people seem to think that you're less of a "real" burner if you don't suffer enough... and smell bad enough... I like being able to escape the playa to eat/sleep/clean up...
Almost all the anti-RV buzz is about isolating yourself from the desert being a bad thing; every now and then I think it's a pretty damn good thing.

I don't have an RV, but I will second what you just said. Getting a good night's sleep does put you in a better frame of mind, feeling clean makes you happy. Sleeping in a tent, on hard playa without enough cushioning under you makes a person kind of cranky after a few days. And getting a cup of coffee isn't as easy as flipping a switch on the coffeemaker. You have to get up, get dressed (if you like), light up the coleman stove, boil the water... or go down to the cafe with a few green dollars and talk to people.... talk to people before coffee??? An RV with a kitchen, and a bathroom...sounds like heaven. Would make me one helluva happy Burner.
In the meantime, I'll suffer and smile about it as best as I can.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sat May 08, 2004 10:17 am

The Captain would like to remind everyone... you don't have to be a rich guy to have an RV; mine's an '87 model, not worth a hell of a lot of money. You can get older trailers for real cheap, and since they're depreciated as far as they're gonna go, you can "theme camp" them out and not worry too much about the playa being harsh on it.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat May 08, 2004 11:34 am

clayboy wrote:Any thoughts? pluses and minuses....any variables if your joining a camp??

Your typical RVs block the view more than tents, they're noisier than tents, they're harder to place in a camp than tents, and they don't look anything like tents. A camp full of RVs is at best a blank white wall of aluminum siding, and at worst a KOA without the landscaping. They require no effort other than marathon driving, and the gumption to buck the (alleged) prohibition against "commerce" by ponying up the fee required to bring a septic-slurping pump truck into your camp to suck out your shit and shower water, not to mention the burden on campmates and neighbors to accommodate the pump trucks and their variable schedules.

But there are a great number of people who have no problem with all of this. Maybe you'll find them. There are ways to make RVs virtually disappear in a camp, but this seems like way too much trouble to me. Just park it and do your thing, and you're likely to blend in by virtue of your sparkling personality.

On the plus side, RVers typically leave fewer stakes and other debris behind, as long as the septic tank doesn't overflow. And they leave quicker.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sat May 08, 2004 12:38 pm

Bob gets my vote for most "Burnier than Thou"

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat May 08, 2004 1:21 pm

Always happy to reinforce the stereotypes vectored by people intent on pushing Burning Man as a Baja Californicating Barf Fest.

Some people would ban RVs. I simply don't give a shit, figuring that no matter what, people are going to bring to Burning Man whatever customs they're accustomed to bringing everywhere else. Your choice. Your culture.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sat May 08, 2004 2:08 pm

Q: What is the policy with regard to Recreational Vehicles (RV's)?
A: RV's are fine. Remember, this is wilderness camping and there are no hookups. Do not discharge gray water or sewage. RV servicing logistics may differ from last year. Stay tuned for details.

From the official BM website FAQ section...

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat May 08, 2004 2:34 pm

Your point being... what?

The irony of calling it "wilderness camping"? How burnie is that?

Like I said, ultimately I don't give a shit what you bring, as long as you leave.

The OP and our other dear readers, however, might want to be aware of some of the practical and esthetic issues having to do with RV usage.

Bob A · Post by **Bob A** » Sat May 08, 2004 3:56 pm

Dork wrote:
If you've never been, how do you know it won't isolate you? It's certainly not a guarantee, but it makes it much easier.

Well to start with I've been reading this board for about a year and have read every thread pro and con RV. I've got burner friends and have discussed this issue with them. My trailer is only 13 feet long and is going to act as part of the windbreak for our camp. I'm re-painting it in a burning man theme and decking it out with L-wire if finances hold. Part of my retrofit is I've added a kick ass solar system to it so it will be supplying free quite electricity (Dc and AC) to the rest of my camp and charging their and my mobile art projects. Also with the space the trailer gives me I'm going to be able to bring more art stuff, costumes gifts, etc. I'm also helping a few other people get their stuff out since they are flying in.

The camper has no Air Conditioning or toilet, so with just a fan I'm sure I won't be hanging around in it during the day.

And finally I haven’t gone to all this work, time and effort, and driving almost 3000 miles to sit in a hot sweaty camp trailer.

The ones that are going to isolate themselves are going to do it, and maybe the RV is the weapon of choice for the isolationist. But, it also sometimes the weapon of choice for the crazy kick ass burner too, newbie or not.

Sounds like a RV will make Clayboy's life easier too and will let him focus on his art and presentation.

Bob A

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sat May 08, 2004 4:17 pm

Bob wrote:Like I said, ultimately I don't give a shit what you bring, as long as you leave.

Likewise, Mr. Friendly.
The point is that it's officially fine to bring an RV, and who ever said anything about wilderness camping? The man burns in the desert because they wouldn't allow it on the beach, I don't remember when living in a tent became the whole point of it. Your campsite isn't necessarily an art installation, and tents aren't any better-looking anyway.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Sat May 08, 2004 7:37 pm

my dome, however, is really fucking cool looking.

poeticphoto · Post by **poeticphoto** » Sat May 08, 2004 8:08 pm

Clayboy, putting all flagrant opinions aside... It's ultimately up to you. If you're able to get the RV from your parents and you want to bring it, do it. Burning Man is a very different experience for everyone. It sounds to me as if it'd be a good idea for you. For others, it may not be.
And as far as all of the 'intellectual' bickering goes, (while it's quite amusing) I think everyone's decisions as a whole to bring certain things has molded Burning Man into what it's become over the many years. And I'm sure we all agree that its outcome is something beyond great. Some people like to come with nothing at all besides their ticket - those people's experience indulges in the fact that BM is a community and how amazing it is that they can come for a week into the desert and survive off of the help and consideration of others. Some people chose to bring a minimal amount of food and shelter - they get the experience of surviving on their own and helping others doing the same. Others choose to go all out, RV or not - those may get the experience of all the art around, getting absorbed into things that others may not have the chance to because they lack the comfortability of an RV or whatnot.
The point is that anyone trying to even come close to shaping a Burning Man experience into a certain mold looses respect in my book. You're not expected to limit or add to your list to fit any type of guideline. (Although they strongly suggest bringing food and water for your own health, it still doesn't stop people from coming unprepared, now does it?) For me, the strongest element of BM is the openness of everyone's personality. If people hold the fact that you brought an RV against you or use it as a reason you're not 'getting the true experience', then they're missing something themselves. Your BM trip is yours and yours alone; make it what you want.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat May 08, 2004 10:26 pm

http://magornsburn.tripod.com/1999/Peop ... ebago.html

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:00 am

Bob wrote:http://magornsburn.tripod.com/1999/Peop ... ebago.html

OK, that's pretty cool... you've inspired me to try something... my RV is just a camper on my truck, not too huge, the rusty gears of the mind are grinding up an idea...

clayboy · Post by **clayboy** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:23 pm

Didnt mean for it to get so political--hehe..really the main reason for me to bring an RV is to haul all my stuff and keep it somewhat organized.
Id like to bring a fun assortment of costumes n shoes, paint, palm trees, pop up dome, lounge chairs, astro turf, tiki torches, boom boxes, turntables, barbie-Q n other stuff. I think I could set up my own lil camp since I dont have one to hang with and I will probobly be going alone. Id feel great if I could create a nice lil atmosphere to help welcome others and meet friends....

xoxox

clayboy

Steven bradford · Post by **Steven bradford** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:27 pm

One of the great advantages to RV ing it, is that it's a wonderful bondign experience along the way with other people that come along with. It's easy to get riders. All the better if they're strangers. When you RV to BM, the burner experience starts the moment you hit the road and start telling stories, and making snacks and sharing photos, all along the way.

Go fer it!

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:47 pm

clayboy wrote: I think I could set up my own lil camp since I dont have one to hang with and I will probobly be going alone. Id feel great if I could create a nice lil atmosphere to help welcome others and meet friends....

xoxox

clayboy

Clayboy, I can't IMAGINE you're gonna have any problems...

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:49 pm

The original question was re: the effect the choice of an RV would have on "joining a camp", and "vs. tenting it".

I'm sure the OP has plenty of opinions at this point -- maybe we should tell everybody to bring RVs, and not tell them DPW has to arrange vendors they can pay to suck their shit off the playa, take appointment times to suck their shit, etc. etc.

No need for tents.

Makes life simple, doesn't it?

Line after line of RVs lining up along the shit line. Cool, huh?

Welcome Home.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Mon May 10, 2004 12:19 am

I absolutely agree with you, the DPW shouldn't have to deal with suck-trucks for RVers - everyone is supposed to take care of themselves. I've never used them; it's supposed to be NO commerce... so wtf? Get rid of 'em.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon May 10, 2004 12:31 am

That would be nice, but the agencies require us to be prepared to deal with the shit from your RVs.

Choose another event if you don't want to deal with reality.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon May 10, 2004 12:43 am

READY TO PUMP SHIT NOW, SIR.

Out. I'm done here.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon May 10, 2004 12:13 pm

4 time RV-er

so many generalizations, so little time.
We don't need to get our shit sucked, we use the potties.
The view being better? Well, I find the sight of falling apart, poorly built shade with noisily flapping cheap, ripped up, blue tarps to be more of an assault on my senses. Isolation? yeah right. If anything, my RV experience is more social than the experience that two folks driving up and sleeping in indivual tents has. Moopless cooking. Fantastic sheltered views during the nastiest storms. Great truck. EER. Additional barriers between you and LEO.

People want you to act the way they act. I will be your friend if you act like me. Burning Man is not exempted from this axiom.

Bring an RV or Don't. Please don't assert that it has some metaphysical bearing on my ability to enjoy the event or impact yours. Those statments require more generalizations and assumptions than I can count. Most of which, as a first premise, assume I am an unprepared asshole. I resent that.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Mon May 10, 2004 1:30 pm

RV's are great - as long as they are someone else's! They make good wind breaks, you can reposition them between you and that obnoxious techno camp that sets up next door (or generator), comes with a toilet for "emergencies" (lot's of emergencies early in the week for most camps though), and great to hang out in a rain/dust storm. But a bitch to clean...

I prefer to make a hootch. I start with 6 rebars pounded in a hexagon (spaced 'just so). Then I take 3 20' PVC 1" pipes and bend them in a hemisphere. Then I cover with tarps, blankets, etc. Make a door down wind. Cover floor with more blankets. Put inflatable queen sized bed with sheets and blankets and pillows inside. Then erect a shade shelter over this. Fits 3-4 in a pinch comfortably, wind doesn't affect it (and it is fairly quiet!) and I sleep in a bed instead of in a sleeping bag.

regards, Jafe

R.V. VS. Tenting it....

R.V. VS. Tenting it....

rv vs tent

Don't come alone!