The Police Can Have BRC

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:26 am

Artemis wrote:By the way, if I understood Spectabilis correctly, I think that he was pointing out that people get confused when everything is thrown on their head.

uhhh.. no

Artemis · Post by **Artemis** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:42 am

uhhh.. no

Apparently my powers of comprehension have failed and for this reason I qualified my statement to indicate that I may have misunderstood you.

Spectabilis wrote:most of the people you are referring to realize that various laws and legal proceedures apply universally throughout the united states. but people often loose sight of this in the immediate context of burningman due to the nature of the event. its a natural human tendency to adapt to an environment, especially within a confined one with an exciting culture that is very different, while simultaneously under constant reinforcement to new social rules and rituals.

I read this to mean that people lose sight of rules that existed prior to burning man once at burning man (burning man summarized as everything is turned on their head).

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:15 pm

Artemis wrote:
uhhh.. no
Apparently my powers of comprehension have failed and for this reason I qualified my statement to indicate that I may have misunderstood you.

Spectabilis wrote:most of the people you are referring to realize that various laws and legal proceedures apply universally throughout the united states. but people often loose sight of this in the immediate context of burningman due to the nature of the event. its a natural human tendency to adapt to an environment, especially within a confined one with an exciting culture that is very different, while simultaneously under constant reinforcement to new social rules and rituals.
I read this to mean that people lose sight of rules that existed prior to burning man once at burning man (burning man summarized as everything is turned on their head).

i said people already decided to break the law when they bring drugs to the playa..

this old shit of "he fell in with some bad people" just don't float when you get tp court

booster · Post by **booster** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:36 pm

Spectabillis, I parlayed with you years ago on Tribe discussions. Good to see your texbook tongue is still generous with its raucous rapport. I welcome your input on a similar thread to this one that I began today called "Yes, but what can we DO about the police?".

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:03 pm

well thats closer artemis, but im wondering if i should roll this into the other requested topic.

my explanation wouldnt be a suggestion on what to do - thats a whole different ball of barbed wire - and would likely drift it... well, its going to get derailed anyways, and its likely no-one will make much of an effort of action. but hey, i always hope to be wrong.

you still want to hear a full explanation? it would include a critial look at the various realities of 4 general group.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:05 pm

Unjonharley is ugly, illiterate, and a senile old man... who has been around long enough to see a lot of things more clearly than many of us do.
The rotten old son of a bitch is right about this topic.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:05 am

actually he's wrong.

but despite that, people should simply ignore him anyways, because acknowledging his presence only seems to validate his inflamatory and ignorantly intolerant nature

... i am guilty of not doing that until now.

vargaso · Post by **vargaso** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:39 pm

It's a crap shoot out there. In 2007 I saw a shitload of busts. This year, I saw one bust and almost no noticeable police presence. Either I was lucky this year or just wasn't paying attention. Probably both.

As for drugs, we've done plenty of them every year we go. We just NEVER actually consume them out in the open. I mean never. Either in camp or in a porta-pottie. And I never walk around with drugs.

I'm mostly glad there are LEOs out there as I've seen them be genuinely helpful to people either hurt or really messed up. In my perfect world, they'd turn a blind eye to the drug-taking, but I know they can't do that, and I also know the event itself couldn't exist, due to BLM and state laws, without the presence of LEOs. Most of them are very open-minded and, in my experience, rather amused at the goings-on. However, I don't blame those who've had a negative experience with them for being bitter. I know I'd be pissed, too.

So yeah, best thing is to know going in that there are LEOs out there, and act accordingly, which really only means don't do drugs out in the open. Hell, you can stagger around blitzed out of your mind as long as you aren't being stupid.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:25 pm

I used to hate cops. Why should any citizen have that much power? But they do serve a purpose. At BM we are on federal land...so it's not just local law enforcement! Like I've said before...if you want to bring drugs into Nevada, its you're own journey..and just hope you don't make the darwin awards. One thing I've learned, respect will get you a long way! You don't have to agree...but just realize were a city now...and id rather have trained personel enforcing the rules (remember, we can't bring guns anymore), than volunteer rent-a-cops.

vargaso · Post by **vargaso** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:30 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
NeonEmu wrote:
wayneal wrote:I was informed that The Burning Man Foundation has acquired private land in Austin Texas. So, my question to you fellow-Burners is, "Are we ready to evolve to another location?" It is clear to me that Nevada does not welcome the Burning Man event, despite the long running negotiations and permits.

Any comments or thoughts are welcome.
Does anyone know if this bit about land in Austin, TX is true? I'd love to see some back up information or have a reference... I might just piss my pants if this is true. Though, I would miss the playa dust... but my lungs might not... hmmm. hahaha
I'd think not. I don't thing the LLC has enough cash to be getting into land deals.

Of course, there are those who add up the reciepts without looking at the expences, and conclude that the LLC is rolling in it, but they've never convinced me.

Regarding land deals, the BMORG absolutely has enough cash to enter into one, and is apparently doing so very near the Black Rock Desert, as explained on the Burning Blog here: http://blog.burningman.com/?p=5427

From what I read in this post, they're looking to purchase some land to ensure that some aspect of BM continues into the future. Whether they plan to move the actual festival to such private land is not clear. They could be interested in owning some property where they could hold conferences, talks, gatherings of some kind, etc. Regardless, it's interesting.

YouBlowDeadBear · Post by **YouBlowDeadBear** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:51 pm

[quote="ygmir"]

they have rocket ships, too.......

[img]http://talkkok.files.wordpress.com/2009 ... n-0022.jpg[/img][/quote]

Hilarious.

Black helicopters from police organizations ehh? Yet they're NOT crews on training flight out of Fallon or Reno stopping by to check out all the hubbub?... Because they can. The same goes for the F-15, F-5, & FA-18 pilot's?

Post by **AntiM** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:27 am

I know for a fact the Navy pilots doing training runs route over BRC simply because they can. Those pilots would likely be IN the city if they could get their leave days authorized.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:31 am

YouBlowDeadBear wrote: Black helicopters from police organizations ehh? Yet they're NOT crews on training flight out of Fallon or Reno stopping by to check out all the hubbub?... Because they can. The same goes for the F-15, F-5, & FA-18 pilot's?

I wonder why they are flying up there the rest of the year also?

We are temporary, they fly up there week in and week out. All year long.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:32 am

AntiM wrote:I know for a fact the Navy pilots doing training runs route over BRC simply because they can. Those pilots would likely be IN the city if they could get their leave days authorized.

I read some where.. A air liner got permission to change course to fly over..

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:54 am

That's right, they wanted to check out the naked chicks.

Mister Satan · Post by **Mister Satan** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:01 am

ygmir wrote:yeah, I bet it'd be a lot more "free" and "open" in Texas...........
.

Despite the prejudices of people who have never lived to Texas, the Austin area is one of the most laid back and areas in the United States. It's population of annoying dirty hippies is second only to SF and Seattle. Hosting a burn on private property also gives the promoters more rights than an event held on public land.

For those of you with a limited mental capacity that cannot see past red states and blue states, Austin and Dallas are big ugly blue spots in Texas

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:14 am

Typical Texas attitude.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:17 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Typical Texas attitude.

no wounder there govenors end up in rehab..

Mister Satan · Post by **Mister Satan** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:12 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Typical Texas attitude.

We all know that you are just jealous that we have 2nd amendment rights and no state income tax

I am so happy that I was able to escape the Peoples Republic of California.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:34 pm

Mister,

Those dirty hippies you speak of are texas cockroach.. Those good old texass boys will tell some tall ones.. You Ca. tranplants will believe any thing

Mister Satan · Post by **Mister Satan** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:45 pm

No transplant here, I was born in Fort Worth

I only lived and worked in the Peoples Republic of California. Had I been born there I would have been too embarassed to even admit my association with the Left Coast.

macrophage68 · Post by **macrophage68** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 pm

This was my eighth burn, and I saw little change from years past.
There were some shambling big cops around Opulant several nights, one looked partially disabled the way he lurched through the crowd.
A buddy did get busted, a first in my group of friends. He was low hanging fruit. (Note, you're far more likely to get busted at Opulant or Root than in your average bar in the default world. Be smart!)

One important point; no one deserves to get busted. No one. They might take actions that make it more likely, but no one deserves to get busted.
This is a free fucking country. Let's take it back, at the ballot box, by speaking up, by writing our elected representatives, by attending rallies.
The Drug War is an abomination, and un-American. Just like the ending of slavery, the onset of women's suffrage, the end of Jim Crow, and the ongoing struggle to recognize gays are equal citizens and humans, we'll win this one in the end.

If you hear someone saying oh he was stupid he shoulda known better, you're just listening to some poor soul who has bought into the drug war.

No one deserves to get busted.

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:41 am

macrophage68 wrote:One important point; no one deserves to get busted. No one. They might take actions that make it more likely, but no one deserves to get busted.

Um yes, they do.

Whether or not you agree with the laws does not alter the fact that the laws still exist and will be enforced by some element of law enforcement when a law is broken in front of them.

This thread is a typical rinse and repeat of the annual bitching about law enforcement presence at Burning Man. It is also the typical rinse and repeat of people bitching about how their own stupidity got them busted for breaking the law in the presence of law enforcement.

And despite the number of people jumping on Unjon over some of his viewpoints, he is pretty much dead on in the fact that someone breaking the law, that is either not used to breaking the law or is paranoid about breaking the law while they are doing it, will typically act in a manner that will single them out to someone with an experienced eye looking for it.

This is a free fucking country. Let's take it back, at the ballot box, by speaking up, by writing our elected representatives, by attending rallies.

And those are all good things. Problem is, until you get the majority of the nation on your side, advocating for the same thing, you will not be making much headway.

The Drug War is an abomination, and un-American. Just like the ending of slavery, the onset of women's suffrage, the end of Jim Crow, and the ongoing struggle to recognize gays are equal citizens and humans, we'll win this one in the end.

Maybe, maybe not. There are a lot of corporate donors and law enforcement lobbies out there that are far more interested (and writing much bigger checks to our elected officials) in keeping the WOD running right along.

If you hear someone saying oh he was stupid he shoulda known better, you're just listening to some poor soul who has bought into the drug war.

No one deserves to get busted.

No, you'll see someone that has the ability to apply basic common sense to their decision making process when they are breaking the law in the presence of law enforcement.

And yes, firing up a joint in the open, be it at Burning Man or on your front porch is stupid and you have no one to blame but yourself if such actions end up in you getting arrested or cited for doing so. Radical self reliance means accepting the consequences of your actions. Be it getting popped for drug use or breaking a leg falling off an art car, your actions are the root cause for the consequences incurred from them.

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:56 am

In terms of the "police state", I will say that once again, as I have had every year I've been, I had great interactions with the various representatives of local, state and federal law enforcement officers I talked to.

Be it a simple smile and wave as they cruised by or stopping and talking to one that looked bored, I sensed no malevolent intentions from any of them. My best interaction with them was last year and included a BLM Ranger, Hot Shot and E-Dude, but one this year came close the night of The Rocket and could have been one of the guys Risky encountered near the art car.

Propbably in the 9:30 range when the crowd had gotten pretty good sized and the wind was starting to really kick up and blow the dust around.

BLM Ranger walking around, obviously looking for something. He came by me and I said hey to him and how was his night going.

He paused and replied, well, not so good.

Really? What's up.

We lost our truck.

Oh shit. Really?

Yep, we parked about an hour ago to walk around and, uh, the crowd got a lot bigger and now we can't find our truck.

I couldn't help it and started laughing and he joined in with me after a second. Even though I knew it be refused, I offered him a water bottle and some store packaged snacks and wished him luck.

He said thanks and we exchanged mutual have a better night pleasantries. I'm pretty sure I saw him later, in the truck, so I suppose they found it.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:40 am

CapSmashy wrote:No, you'll see someone that has the ability to apply basic common sense to their decision making process when they are breaking the law in the presence of law enforcement.

depends. for many years it was never an issue, but even now in some large villages like giggs there hasnt been much of a danger. i'm guessing its also the popular and crowded areas closer to the esplanade than the more vacant fringes.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:49 pm

Texas....Home of Kinky Friedman.

'nuff said.

draw your own conclusions.

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:11 pm

spectabillis wrote:depends. for many years it was never an issue, but even now in some large villages like giggs there hasnt been much of a danger. i'm guessing its also the popular and crowded areas closer to the esplanade than the more vacant fringes.

Here again, it ultimately boils down to taking responsibility for your own actions. Using marijuana (or other narcotics) on federal lands is illegal. Regardless of your position on the law, it is still the law and in order to get arrested or cited for such activity, you would be willingly breaking a very well known law.

I am a strong advocate against the war on drugs but it does not mean I am going to publically flaunt drug use as a form of protest to the law and expect magic fairies to protect me from law enforcement just because I think they should.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:17 pm

CapSmashy wrote:Using marijuana (or other narcotics) on federal lands is illegal. Regardless of your position on the law, it is still the law and in order to get arrested or cited for such activity, you would be willingly breaking a very well known law.

no one said it wasnt

LostinReno · Post by **LostinReno** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:39 pm

Mister Satan wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Typical Texas attitude.
We all know that you are just jealous that we have 2nd amendment rights and no state income tax

I am so happy that I was able to escape the Peoples Republic of California.

Agreed, CA sucks, that's why they've taken over Nevada (yes, I'm one of the few NV Natives over the age of 40), we have 2nd amendment rights, no state income tax, legalized prostitution, legalized gaming and 24/7 sales of alcohol......seriously, where else are you going to find that??

so our drug laws suck.....get over it!

The Police Can Have BRC

Re: The Police Can Have BRC