Playa lung and who got sick after BM?

Post by **actiongrl** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:00 pm

Neti pot, neti pot! I love mine, will never go a day without it.

I ended up with what was called dust-induced bronchitis this year. My job is talking to people at the event, so even in a dust storm I have a hard time wearing a mask or bandana and being heard.

Two steroid inhalers and two weeks later, I can actually speak without coughing.

I'll never go without a dust mask again, just like Thirteen says. Even just using it during the diciest moments for oxygen would have helped me.

karine · Post by **karine** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:05 pm

Neti pot! Neti pot! I tried my first after the burn last year!

Someone hopping up on our art car, grabbed my dustmask (on my belt) to hoist themselves up. Broke my dust mask - and without it... sounds to me like we suffered similar illnesses. Kinda like I got the same thing, anyway.
The doctor finally diagnosed my with an 'infection of the muscles surrounding the lungs', or a severe case of bronchial spasms (asthma) caused by too much dust in my lungs.

And I just talk too much - don't get paid for it. ;)

Double inhalers and about a month. Ouch.. that was painful.

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:27 am

I think some of you must have got the dreaded Playa Lung, pop...

Next time pick up a few of these... stylish and functional!

Russian Military Surplus Gas Mask:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=414701

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:31 am

I'm waiting for someone to assign blame to the relatively high levels (documented) of uranium in the soil.

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:52 am

Isotopia wrote:I'm waiting for someone to assign blame to the relatively high levels (documented) of uranium in the soil.

Would this be naturally occurring uranium or a by-product of the bomb?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:10 am

Natural.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:40 pm

Would this be naturally occurring uranium or a by-product of the bomb?

Most definitely natural. There's a lot of it here in the west. Mostly associated with the igneous rock formation. The thin, spreading crust of the basin and range tends to bring it up from the mantle and it gets consolidated around areas like the playa. There's also lots of thorium which produces radon/thoron decay daughters in the air (from the granites in and around the playa.)

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:24 pm

there are even commercial grade deposits in McDermot area, just east of the playa.....lots of lower grade in general in the area......

dang, somethings going to kill us eventually......

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:26 pm

Also:
A lot of the petrified wood in the area is pretty radioactive,,,,,,the hot water that is the vehicle for silica replacement in the wood also carries and concentrates the uranium.........

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:57 pm

Here's an article from the Nevada Division of Environmental Protection concerning Gerlach's water supply and remediation efforts in regards to high levels of naturally occurring uranium.

http://ndep.nv.gov/bffwp/gerlach.htm

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:09 pm

Nice. One of the tenets in evolutionary biology. Mutation. I thought all my teeth were loose 'cause of all the booze and falling down...well I'm tired. Nap time!

livesimply · Post by **livesimply** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:03 pm

to know..

Hello,

I'm not a burner, but have lots of friends who are/have been.

I do have a huge interest in public health.

I found this page because I was just reading about Valley Fever, and I immediately realized that it may be a problem at BM, because of its location.. (even though Black Rock Desert is north of what is thought of as the main endemic area for coccidioidomycosis, people doing archaeological work in Utah just as far north as BM have gotten it. )

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... idomycosis

Dry lakes in the Southwest are exactly the kind of terrain that people get Valley Fever in.

If you have or have had valley fever, you need to know it, because it can cause serious health problems or even kill you. Its a serious disease that is effecting a lot of people and the media is downplaying it and pretending it is not the problem it is. People do not get coccidioidomycosis and then it goes away forever. It remains in the body and reactivates. Pregnant women and HIV positive people are at a particularly high risk of disseminated disease - it can frequently be fatal.

Coccidioidomycosis is caused by Coccidioides spp., a dimorphic pathogenic fungus.

Disseminated coccidiomycosis - when the cocci spreads from the lungs.. is really dangerous.. can also give people meningitis..

Untreated coccidiomycosis can be fatal.
If you have had any kind of lung illness after spending time in the desert you should get tested for coccidioidomycosis.

The test for coccidioidomycosis costs $45 - Any lab can take your blood and send it to UC Davis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... idomycosis

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/medmicro/cocci.html
http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/medmicro/p ... t_Form.pdf

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:02 pm

I'm not sure it applies. It's hard to say for sure what lives on the playa, (for instance, the Fish and Wildlife Service have never done a survey) and I don't want to say that just because it's dry, there's no fungus, but honestly, playa dust is not "soil" in any common sense of the term and what bacteria that do live there are of the "extremeophile" type. The playa's "playaness" makes it a special kind of valley. And for what it's worth, I've spent four burns hanging out with the medical types, and this has never cropped up.

a site with a definition that is accessable to those of us who do not have degrees in medicine wrote:Valley fever is caused by fungi in the soil. The fungi that cause valley fever can be stirred into the air by anything that disrupts the soil, such as farming, construction and wind. The fungi can then be breathed into the lungs. Valley fever is a form of coccidioidomycosis (kok-sid-e-oi-doh-mi-KOH-sis), or cocci (KOK-si) infection. It can cause fever, chest pain and coughing, among other signs and symptoms.

More than half of those who inhale the valley fever fungi have few, if any, problems. But some, especially pregnant women, people with weakened immune systems, and those of Asian, Hispanic and African descent, may develop a more serious and sometimes fatal form of coccidioidomycosis infection.

Mild cases of valley fever usually go away on their own. In more severe coccidioidomycosis infections, doctors prescribe antifungal medications that can treat the underlying infection.

livesimply · Post by **livesimply** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:14 am

But that doesn't mean it doesn't occur there now or recently enough in the past to still be in the soil. I've heard that its suspected that the spores may survive a *very* long time in soil. It is known to like dry lake beds.

Look at the PDF file at the URL below.

I think the probability is pretty substantial that many warmer microclimates in northern Nevada do contain Coccidioides immitis given that Nevada is between CA and Utah.

Here is a PDF of a FWS (?) poster session that shows computer models of likelihood of cocci in terrain - it gives a good overview of where its usually found in soil. As you see, its pretty complex.

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/Climatecha ... ultman.pdf

livesimply · Post by **livesimply** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:59 pm

Okay, here is [b]my cut[/b] on the risk. [b]I'm not a doctor either.
[/b]
I think Valley Fever is far more dangerous than many media articles and even most popular "mainstream" health web sites often imply because of several factors. (which I will get to in a second)

That does [b]NOT[/b] mean that people should avoid the (spectacularly beautiful and fascinating) Southwest [i]or life-broadening experiences like Burning Man![/i]

What it [b]does[/b] mean is that [b]people should BE AWARE of what they might be dealing with in this fungi[/b]. Its a health issue that I think the BM organizers should give every "burner" an information sheet on with the request that they keep it for at least a year after they leave BM. (longer if they don't thoroughly clean their gear after they leave)

That handout should emphasize prevention and sane avoidance of situations that are asking for trouble..

And as people arrive at the event, they should also be asked (if they are returning for a second or third or tenth time) if they got any VF-like symptoms and if they did, they should be offered access to testing so that they will know if they are seropositive to VF in case it comes back. And statistics should be kept so that if there are areas that people get sick in they can be identified.. See the URL I posted before.. there are probably significant differences in the probabilities of someone getting VF from soil in any area of significant size)

Even in endemic areas, most people don't get VF, BUT for the people who do, it can be devastating to them in some situations.

I would say, get the opinion of some real experts on the subject (there are maybe 10 or 20 people who would qualify..) what to do in a situation like Burning Man. They should be told where it is, specifically. (Let them decide what the probability of its being in the soil there is. There are a lot of factors involved, its highly technical.)

Also, I would ask doctors in that area, especially pulmonologists and infectious disease doctors, if they see it. I don't know if its a reportable disease in Nevada and even if it is, I don't know if most doctors pay attention to stuff like that in these hard economic times. (it would mean paperwork)

They might suggest harm reduction.. Perhaps that you tell 'burners' especially to take care not to disturb soil deeply whenever the dust might be likely to blow onto people. Landslides and dust storms also are very bad risk situations in endemic areas (even non-endemic areas, because VF appears to perhaps have been far more endemic in the past, and it lives on in the deep soil long after other microbes probably have died. For example, Simi Valley and the Northridge Earthquake)

People who deal with disturbed, deep dust probably need to wear P100 level particulate protection.. (better than N-95)

Perhaps 'burners' should be made aware of the symptoms of VF?

I would try to get some expert advice. Then the BM medical team can integrate the policy to inform folk, gather information, both health and also geospatial and manage any potential issues..

If it is untreated, and isn't caught in time, the cost can be substantial, and it can kill people.

From what I have gathered, VF is a major public health issue that people who have it often o misdiagnosed for years.

Obviously, those folks feel it is being ignored. But - keep this in mind, its not infrequently only found in people (and animals)when they are dead and an autopsy is being done. Its also a SERIOUS problem for pets.. especially dogs, who are more likely to get sick than humans.

The people who study these illnesses will be the first to tell you that the more they learn, the more they realize we need to learn.

People are working on both a vaccine and also a permanent treatment but funding is not where it needs to be. (Even though the Southwest is growing rapidly in economic importance, these needs are still not a high enough priority to drive Federal research dollars. (although that hopefully will change if Janet Napolitano, current governor of Arizona, who is familiar with the issue, is approved as Director of Homeland Security.)

Don't just believe the media.. Important specifics of coccidioidomycosis epidemiology and treatment seem to me to often be wrong in the popular media with the result that many people don't get the appropriate treatment. That can sometimes lead to very tragic avoidable outcomes.

The misconceptions seem to often be about the facts that normal people can and often do get the more serious forms of disease, and that the spores live on in the body, held in check by a functioning immune system.

Current treatments can beat it back, but it doesn't completely go away. Stress, even, can bring it out.

Nonwhite people, especially black and Filipino people, people with AIDS, pregnant women, etc. are particularly endangered.

Additionally, people who have never been in the Southwest before, those over 55-60 and the very young, and anybody who takes drugs that depress their immune system (steroids, some arthritis drugs, probably many others) or who is exposed to (common, often hidden or unknown, or perhaps un-admitted by our govt.) environmental toxins that depress their immune system are mentioned repeatedly in the literature as being of higher risk of serious illness.

Please weigh contacting some of the experts in the field and spending some time getting some suggestions from them to prevent and identify Coccidioidomycosis risk factors in the Burning Man environment and creating a feedback loop among attendees.

If that was done, who knows, there is a wild chance that somehow there might also be the chance to do some interesting science as to how to prevent valley fever- Where else do so many computer literate folks with great ideas come together in the desert to do interesting things, coming back once a year, at the same time.. every year! Its a dream situation for epidemiologists.

Given the incredible wealth of talent and technical skillsets of many of the people who come to Burning Man each year, I can't think of a better environment on this entire planet in which to do this in. You would be doing a great service to all of the people of the Southwest if you did come up with any relevant science.

Not Sure · Post by **Not Sure** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:44 pm

i think it should be all burners responsibilities to go around door to door in gerlach and empire and tell residents to move out because of the playa dust hazards to there lungs after all they ve only lived here their whole lives including my kids and the people living here only live into there 90s and 100s .i think they should move to san francisco where they can get mugged and shot or catch the aids or whatever else them bigcity smart people do.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:06 am

Not Sure wrote:i think it should be all burners responsibilities to go around door to door in gerlach and empire and tell residents to move out because of the playa dust hazards to there lungs after all they ve only lived here their whole lives including my kids and the people living here only live into there 90s and 100s .i think they should move to san francisco where they can get mugged and shot or catch the aids or whatever else them bigcity smart people do.

Don't forget getting run over by public transit or driving drunk the wrong way on the freeway

klondike_bar · Post by **klondike_bar** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:32 am

^isnt that more florida state, or maybe detroit?

livesimply · Post by **livesimply** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:47 am

I was just trying to help. Statistically, somebody's chances of getting heart disease or cancer are much higher.. But a very substantial number of people south of you do end up with valley fever and the media is downplaying the danger because its very expensive to treat. People like construction workers who get it are often out of luck because their workmans comp runs out and they have huge medical bills.. They have to go on social security disability and that takes years and lawyers and denials and appeals and they basically want you to be almost dead first.

The worst cases are life threatening, like metastasized lung cancer in many respects..

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:31 am

Livesimply, sorry if the snark was misinterpreted. Different locations often have there own brand of illness/injury. Working rural areas, I've responded on people who have fallen from tree stands. In the city, more trauma is the result of violence. City life also brings with it more respiratory illness's due to our lovely clean air. Or cardiac related, lots of chest pain calls from people who are more sedentary then those living in rural areas. Various jobs seem to have inherent risks associated with them as well. Jobs such as Fire, Police, Crab fishing (just had to throw that one in there, love the shows)

have their obvious risks. In my job, it seems the biggest hazards are catching a disease through a needle stick, or getting struck at an accident scene. Truck drivers are prone to accidents from falling asleep due to long shifts which is more obvious, or pulmonary embolisms due to sitting alot, more subtle. Construction, factory workers, have their issues, farm workers occasionally fall into manure pits. Thats generally not an issue in city life, unless it happens to be asia, and you fall into a benjo ditch, then its your own fault

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:07 pm

Sail Man wrote:In my job, it seems the biggest hazards are catching a disease through a needle stick, or getting struck at an accident scene.

Oh, you can find plenty of ways to go if you peruse these lists.

livesimply · Post by **livesimply** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:11 am

You only have two lungs..

yamaz · Post by **yamaz** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:15 pm

This is an old thread but not a new problem...I got sick Sunday night driving back home. The next day I was really deep in it and was blowing noise very frequently and had minor flu systoms.

It took a couple weeks to get it out of me but I have to wonder....was this typical flu or something more atypical like this valley fever or another ailment. As such I'd like the discussion to continue!

makoona · Post by **makoona** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:34 pm

I camped with my brother in a 10" travel trailer. He brought along a cold he got from his 6 y/o . I of course got it, I also, for the first time didn't wear any dust mask / hanky at all, all week long. I got over the cold with chinese herbs in 5 days, but i am still snotting out gobs of gunk and coughing up wads of goo... I will NEVER, EVER go without a full respirator again. I also still feel lethargic.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:36 pm

makoona wrote:I camped with my brother in a 10" travel trailer. He brought along a cold he got from his 6 y/o . I of course got it, I also, for the first time didn't wear any dust mask / hanky at all, all week long. I got over the cold with chinese herbs in 5 days, but i am still snotting out gobs of gunk and coughing up wads of goo... I will NEVER, EVER go without a full respirator again. I also still feel lethargic.

with a cold and no mask you could get quite "rhino-adventurous".....

pandasex · Post by **pandasex** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:06 am

im always joking with my husband after BM that there will eventually be a disease called the "playa lung" because he usually gets a cough after for a couple of weeks. Not me though. Used dust masks this year

playa lung

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:03 am

I got cold sores.

malchik · Post by **malchik** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:47 am

Just wondering if anybody heard of (otherwise completely healthy, non-smoking) burners getting pneumothorax (spontaneous lung collapse) after BM?

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:15 pm

having had 4 of them at various times and conditions i think i can say that most likely it was brought about by stress, not the playa.

dont hate the dust because it's beautiful.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:34 pm

malchik wrote:Just wondering if anybody heard of (otherwise completely healthy, non-smoking) burners getting pneumothorax (spontaneous lung collapse) after BM?

I answered this in this thread http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... ax#p743937

Playa lung and who got sick after BM?

"Playa Lung" could be coccidioidomycosis. Please r

BM is a bit to the north of the worst VF areas in Nevada.

I would not trust just any doctor on VF..

Hey there, don't take what I said the wrong way..

Watch out for that volcanic dust

resurrect this thread

I will hitherto wear a respirator!!

Re: I will hitherto wear a respirator!!

Re: Playa lung and who got sick after BM?

Re: Playa lung and who got sick after BM?

Re: Playa lung and who got sick after BM?