Bike Security

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:01 am

The low gear is an other good idea! And easy enough to do. I have a 60 tooth ring that could be installed on the back, and then we put a tiny rear sprocket on the front. Leave the shift levers in place, connected to nothing, and watch him struggle to find a higher gear!

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:27 pm

the low gear scheme. I just had a visual of somebody trying to steal a teeny tiny clown bike, and trying to make a quick getaway.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:40 pm

I can "see" it too!

Reminds me of a Kinetic Sculpture Race in Port Townsend, WA, a few years ago. Port Townsend has steep hills. We were pedaling furiously up hill in low gear and spectators were passing us on foot. I didn't mind that. But then a dachshund passed us.

That hurt!

penguin · Post by **penguin** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:42 pm

Of course most of the "solutions" presume that the thief is going to ride the bike to make their getaway, rather than picking it up and running. Of course the ideas that involve riding are much more interesting

To that end, my current thought is to add one of those "old-fashioned" hand-crank air-raid sirens in-line with the chain (too many hyphens me thinks) so the faster they pedal the louder the siren!

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:03 pm

Now, seriously; if I were to build four or five bikes with these ideas on them, would we be able to organize several of us for a stake out at Center Camp?

Post by **AntiM** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:31 am

This thread is making me nervous.... and not because i steal bikes. I don't.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:20 am

I'm deleting any posts that suggest illegal activity such as causing serious injury. Try to keep things creative and safe ok guys?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:47 am

good call.....but, there goes all the attempts at sick humor............

Fire_Moose · Post by **Fire_Moose** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:55 am

exploding bikes...

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:55 am

Dork wrote:I'm deleting any posts that suggest illegal activity such as causing serious injury. Try to keep things creative and safe ok guys?

Don't know why, but somehow this reminds me of a Boston Legal episode where the lead character was mugged in a parking lot on the way to his car; he pulls out his gun and shoots the mugger multiple times, and then the mugger sues him in court and wins.

Seems silly that it would be illegal to do something with your personal property that would injure a thief trying to steal your personal property.

JK

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:31 am

Dork, you are right. Thanks for keeping an eye on us. Please delete my posts as you feel appropriate.

If I bring any "booby trapped" bike(s), I will stick to the harmless kind, like the super-low gearing.
I have a defective pair of fancy gear shifters with two levers on each side. Those should give the subject something to worry over while he pedals furiously at 1/4 MPH!

And the coaster brake that locks up can go on the rear of the bike. Since it turned out to lock up rather gradually, the subject would just come to a stop.

I agree that it would be wrong to toss anyone over the handlebar.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:02 am

Here we go... this is a much safer activity. That's me in blue shirt and wide-brimmed straw hat, leaning forward all I can without spilling the drink in my left hand.

Jumped that Ramp Of Death about a dozen times. Got stuck like this most times, but managed to get the front wheel back down and keep going... hmmm, twice, I think.

LostinReno · Post by **LostinReno** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:27 pm

That's hilarious...and you didn't spill your drink!! Even better!!!

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:09 pm

Actually, what I did in lieu of a lock is when I stopped, I changed the gear settings on both the front and rear. Which, if you aren't rolling, fucks everything up until you get rolling, or re-set the selectors to the original setting.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:11 pm

Dork wrote:I'm deleting any posts that suggest illegal activity such as causing serious injury. Try to keep things creative and safe ok guys?

Oh man! Does that mean I gotta cancel my bulk order of joy buzzers?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:43 pm

Sail Man wrote:
Dork wrote:I'm deleting any posts that suggest illegal activity such as causing serious injury. Try to keep things creative and safe ok guys? :)
Oh man! Does that mean I gotta cancel my bulk order of joy buzzers? :roll:

Yeah, not much creativity in joy buzzers.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:18 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Actually, what I did in lieu of a lock is when I stopped, I changed the gear settings on both the front and rear. Which, if you aren't rolling, fucks everything up until you get rolling, or re-set the selectors to the original setting.

that can get your chain pretty jammed up, no?

JK

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:24 pm

If I remember to shift it back before pedaling, no.

Something of a combination lock, yes?

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:06 pm

No, I wouldn't want to injure anbyody either. I think the trap should confuse, thwart and shame the thief, not hurt them. I'm up for an evening of participation and will try to devise a "steal this" bike. I have an accumulation of them on my patio. The skunkworks of how about making X is fun and I love the mechanical riffs. Eliot is rocking the thread with some actual fabrication. If word got out about trap bikes, it might raise a tiny bit of awareness of how theft is a real issue, and locking a bike is not a nod to default world fears, but something necessary at Burning Man. We could post a tally board, or a stealometer, of the number of attempts.

As to the people who might just pick up a bike and make away with it, I think a spotlight and bull-horn are in order. Or how about just stapling the bike directly to the ground, and watch them pull and pull and look nonchalant, again... WWAFD what would Alan Funt do?

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:42 pm

Sail Man wrote:
Dork wrote:I'm deleting any posts that suggest illegal activity such as causing serious injury. Try to keep things creative and safe ok guys?
Oh man! Does that mean I gotta cancel my bulk order of joy buzzers?

No, just don't describe how you're going to rig them to put out 200,000 volts in a public forum. Police and grieving relatives have a way of finding such incriminating evidence.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:44 pm

A certain amount of physical risk is well within the law.

Razor wire is legal inmost places and potentially deadly.
While fishhooks sound vicious, they are unlikely to cause life threatening injury.

Concealed and deadly traps are banned most places.

Considering I had my new bike on the playa less than a half hour before someone tried to steal it so casually that they didn't notice the U-lock on the rear, I would have certainly held the thief for the police if I had caught them.

I certainly suggest a solid lock out there.
Even a worthless bike can cost you a lot if you need it all week.

I applaud Elliot's genius ideas for security.

So, what about variable threading to apply the brakes harder?

fciron · Post by **fciron** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:48 pm

Dork wrote:
Sail Man wrote:
Dork wrote:I'm deleting any posts that suggest illegal activity such as causing serious injury. Try to keep things creative and safe ok guys?
Oh man! Does that mean I gotta cancel my bulk order of joy buzzers?
No, just don't describe how you're going to rig them to put out 200,000 volts in a public forum. Police and grieving relatives have a way of finding such incriminating evidence.

Alright, so I can pressurize the bike frame with propane as long as I don't write about it here. Got it! Thanks for looking out for us, Dork.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:56 pm

I think we were well below the 200.000 Volt treshold, but I have looped myself over a handlebar or two in my day, and I don't wish the risk of a broken neck on anybody.

Now.... To speed up the application of the coaster brake AFTER the slow fuse has burned down (so to speak), we could probably use the same "one thread per inch" "bendix starter drive" mechanism that is already in the hub from the factory. The trick would be to "change gears" automatically from the allthread to the bendix -- and I have noe clue if I could even accomplish that. But since we are going to refrain from tossing people ass-over-applecart anyway, that wheel is now going on the rear of a bait bike just as it is. Then, when the fellow grinds to a halt after 30 feet, his response will tell the story. If he drops the bike like a hot potato and walks away without looking back, it will be rather obvious that this was not his own bike.

Next, I have started on the Slow bike. I'm putting a large chain ring from a crank (looks like 48 teeth; rough eyeball measure) on a rear wheel. On the crank, the normal small ring (like 26 teeth) may be small enough, but I can always put a tiny rear cog up there if need be.

Dagg nabbit -- I need to work for a living also!

Working from home is wonderful -- except for the distractions.

Oh... about joy buzzers. I'm not old enough to have done it, but I'm told that Model T Ford ignition coils were popular for such purposes. I DO know how they work, so I can see how it could be applied. The model T coils have... oh, wait.... Not on a public forum.

So we'll have a bike that stops after 30 feet, and we'll have a bike with the top speed of a snail. What's next? The siren or other noise maker is good.

A really simple thing would be The Bike That Can Not Be Ridden At All, But Without A Visible Lock. Almost as in "stapled to the ground" mentioned above.

penguin · Post by **penguin** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:19 pm

You could still "walk" off with it, but in terms of ride-proof - why not just take off the chain, that'd be slower than a snails pace

Or, more of a one-shot solution -- make a decoy bike where the frame is made out of slightly reinforced balsa wood -- you'd be able to "walk" the bike, but as soon as you try and hop on....

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:43 pm

The thread can be heated and spun one way or another to change the count.
I'll get details from my blacksmith friend.

It's done for this kind of variable speed thing.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:48 pm

Penguin, the fellow would quickly see that there is no chain. The point of this idea is to have him struggle with the shifters for a while, expecting to find a faster gear if he just keeps trying.

I could cut a normal bicycle so it looks OK but collapses under the weight of a rider.

Gyre... somewhat like a variable ratio coil spring, yes. But lots of fabrication.
An other possibility would be to discard the original brake and replace it with a pawl or some such that would engage instantly... maybe a pair of jaw couplings (Lovejoy couplings). Spring loaded jaw coupling, and the allthread triggers a sear that releases the spring.

Good brain exercise, this!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:54 pm

How about manipulating chain and gears or tensioner so the chain slips?
Or comes off.
Not that hard to do.

My one speed conversion was doing that with great enthusiasm my first year.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:02 pm

One speed field conversions have been known to climb to a larger cog and become tight as a guitar string! Hmmm... a rear derailer without the tensioner; snug chain. The guy moves the shift lever and... twangggg!

Post by **AntiM** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:09 pm

Skunk oil on the seat?

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:11 pm

Dork wrote:No, just don't describe how you're going to rig them to put out 200,000 volts in a public forum. Police and grieving relatives have a way of finding such incriminating evidence.

not to step on your toes dork, but leo's understand legal use of electric discharge devices sold as non-lethal self defense and barrier enforcement. its purely a state regulated thing, and i think its legal in ca and nv.

but i dont know what was questionable.. 200kv seems excessive, but its more about the current. so i guess i dont see whats questionable about discussing something like buying a $10 stun gun and wiring the contacts in a bike seat.