Berg Video...

Last Real Burner · Post by **Last Real Burner** » Wed May 12, 2004 10:04 pm

Have you watch this video?

What did you think?

Were they right not showing it on public TV?

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Wed May 12, 2004 10:35 pm

Heard a good description, decided not to see it.
Tough call. I think I'm gonna say put it on, if you don't want to see, turn your set off. There's some brutal shit going on, people need to know.
Now, if one of Janet Jackson's boobs were ever aired, I'd be so offended I'd complain to the FCC. (Sure hope it puts that stupid bullshit into perspective)

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed May 12, 2004 10:37 pm

I'm waiting for the prison videos.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:01 pm

Quote:

Have you watch this video?

What did you think?

Why the fuck would anyone watch this? Everyone knows what the outcome is. Just more pain, suffering and death.

No amount of debating or justifying here or anywhere else is gonna convince me that people watch this shit for any other reason than their own prurient interests. Same folks who'd microwave a bag of popcorn and pop in a Faces of Death video.

Why the fuck even bring this sickness up as a topic LRB?

Jesus Christ.

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Thu May 13, 2004 5:11 am

Have not watched it... will not watch it... had my cable disconnected months ago...

This kind of thing has been going on for thousands of years but we are the first generation to have it actually happen in our living rooms over, and over, and over, and over.

Anyone who finds this entertaining would really benefit from having it happen to a loved one or themselves. It brings perspective.

Sam

Last Real Burner · Post by **Last Real Burner** » Thu May 13, 2004 7:32 am

I watched it. Very cruel, the unflinching eye of the camera makes it even more surreal. And yes, no matter how many times you watch it, the outcome is still the same.

The good the bad and the ugly, Badger, the good the bad and the ugly. We are all affected by tradgies such as this if it happens to family or people we don't know.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu May 13, 2004 10:00 am

Badger wrote:Quote:
Have you watch this video?

What did you think?

Why the fuck would anyone watch this?

That is exactly what I thought about "Titanic" with Leo DiCrapio...hell, I knew the ending (the ship sinks for all of you who have not seen it).

... and yes, his name is misspelled on purpose.

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Thu May 13, 2004 11:21 am

My mind is already haunted by the images that have been shown on tv. Carrying around the scene of a brutal murder would do nothing to expand my horror at the act, but it would increase my nausea.

I'm already anti-war in general and anti-thiswar is particular. I have a hard time buying the argument that seeing the beheading, the sawing away of a person's head and life, will do anything but push folks' hate buttons instead of getting them to consider how it got to this, and instill a willful, actionable desire to avoid it. My biggest fear is that you've got sickos watching this, getting off on it, and being inspired for their own up-and-coming hate crimes.

I never watched slasher movies. My junior high friends made fun of me for my conscientions objection at slumber parties. They thought I was scared but I wasn't - I was disgusted. Disgusted that seeing a human body violated and torn open was entertainment for them. It didn't matter to me that it wasn't real. To this day I shut my eyes at the gory bits in movies because not only do I not want to carry those images around with me, making me feel ill at the slighest recollection, but I don't want to be the kind of person that is entertained by it.

Not to get all high-horse. Yes, I have trouble reconciling this to my love of the Matrix-type movies. Fortunately for me, the vast majority of the rounds they shoot don't hit. But I digress.

The horror of this brutality is only matched by the average American's unwillingness to acknowledge our responsibility in created the environment for this to happen. I've been following the pre-court martial hearings (bless NPR for broadcasting them in totality) and the thing that has surprised me most is that folks really seem surprised that Americans would commit the abuses in the prison pics and video.

You take a young person, teach them to kill, teach them not to question why they are killing, fill them with propaganda about how it is their duty to kill, make sure they do kill, punish them if they won't kill, and then are surprised when they no longer understand the difference between right and wrong?

Um...does anyone really believe that you can have war without at least tacitly endorsing torture, rape, and mutilation?

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu May 13, 2004 11:57 am

The good the bad and the ugly, Badger, the good the bad and the ugly.

You are not going to get past me using the above as a reason or rational for either watching the video or explaining why you brought the topic here in the first place.

Your pig isn't flying.

BTW Joel, there's a world of difference in spectacle couched in a love story, enfolded in an action film wrapped in a significant historical event that everyone understands to be interpretive vs. showing a film that documents the basest form of human cruelty and animalistic tendencies. You're confusing your apples with your oranges.

Not like you Joel.

DangerMouse · Post by **DangerMouse** » Thu May 13, 2004 11:58 am

I watched it. I knew the out come in advance.

It is as horiffic as I imagined and then some.

However to me it seems more a case of the wrong person with the wrong ethnic background during the wrong political regime in America, in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The army is trained to do one thing. Kill. Asking it to keep the peace is like using a pitbull trained for dog fighting to guard your child.

As for what did I think? What do you think? What kind of asinine question is that?

It is the murder of a person who had committed no crime. It was an act designed to override coherant thought and elicit an emotional response.

What struck me as the oddest thought after watching the video was that the person who killed Berg was very efficient in his motions. It was a practiced event.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu May 13, 2004 11:58 am

Main Entry: tac·it
Pronunciation: 'ta-s&t
Function: adjective
Etymology: French or Latin; French tacite, from Latin tacitus silent, from past participle of tacEre to be silent; akin to Old High German dagEn to be silent
1 : expressed or carried on without words or speech
2 a : implied or indicated but not actually expressed <tacit consent> b (1) : arising without express contract or agreement (2) : arising by operation of law <tacit mortgage>
- tac·it·ly adverb
- tac·it·ness noun

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu May 13, 2004 12:04 pm

Isotopia wrote:
The good the bad and the ugly, Badger, the good the bad and the ugly.
You are not going to get past me using the above as a reason or rational for either watching the video or explaining why you brought the topic here in the first place.

Your pig isn't flying.

BTW Joel, there's a world of difference in spectacle couched in a love story, enfolded in an action film wrapped in a significant historical event that everyone understands to be interpretive vs. showing a film that documents the basest form of human cruelty and animalistic tendencies. You're confusing your apples with your oranges.

Not like you Joel.

All I said was.... "I knew how the movie ended." tongue firmly pressed against my cheek... Titianic still sucked as a movie.

The Berg video... went to the URL, it didn't play completely... not sure I need to see it anyway... 'cause I already know the ending.

If I wanted to see cruelty and animalistic behaviors I would look no further than Africa where children starve from malnutrition while all around me are obese people. You don't need a weapon (in this reference a knife) to be cruel or animalistic.

What was the point I was making?

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu May 13, 2004 12:09 pm

Simply ('Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V') Joel wrote:What was the point I was making?

You mean you couldn't tell either?

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu May 13, 2004 1:21 pm

Ranger Genius wrote:
Simply ('Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V') Joel wrote:What was the point I was making?

You mean you couldn't tell either?

Oh yeah...
The point is... cruelty does not require a weapon, only a mindset.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu May 13, 2004 1:33 pm

Sorry, that's still to complicated for me. Do you think you could condense it to something that doesn't require any punctuation and could fit on the back of a fortune cookie?

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu May 13, 2004 1:49 pm

Ranger Genius wrote:Sorry, that's still to complicated for me. Do you think you could condense it to something that doesn't require any punctuation and could fit on the back of a fortune cookie?

Be nice MOTHERF*CKER... or I will kill you.

There, that could fit nicely on a fortune cookie.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu May 13, 2004 1:52 pm

Still too much punctuation. I do agree, though, that

Confucius say: Be nice, motherfucker!

would make a great fortune cookie.

KellY · Post by **KellY** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:00 pm

Badger wrote:
Why the fuck would anyone watch this? Everyone knows what the outcome is. Just more pain, suffering and death.

No amount of debating or justifying here or anywhere else is gonna convince me that people watch this shit for any other reason than their own prurient interests. Same folks who'd microwave a bag of popcorn and pop in a Faces of Death video.

What he said.

technopatra wrote:I'm already anti-war in general and anti-thiswar is particular. I have a hard time buying the argument that seeing the beheading, the sawing away of a person's head and life, will do anything but push folks' hate buttons instead of getting them to consider how it got to this, and instill a willful, actionable desire to avoid it. My biggest fear is that you've got sickos watching this, getting off on it, and being inspired for their own up-and-coming hate crimes.

I never watched slasher movies. My junior high friends made fun of me for my conscientions objection at slumber parties. They thought I was scared but I wasn't - I was disgusted. Disgusted that seeing a human body violated and torn open was entertainment for them. It didn't matter to me that it wasn't real. To this day I shut my eyes at the gory bits in movies because not only do I not want to carry those images around with me, making me feel ill at the slighest recollection, but I don't want to be the kind of person that is entertained by it.

That too.

Anyone think it insanely hypocritical that Bush claimed that he didn't want media coverage of the bodies of U.S. soldiers coming back home out of respect for the privacy of the families, etc., and yet has no problem with this disgusting bit of snuff-porn?

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:03 pm

Technopatra put it succinctly and clearly... and it was way too long for most adults to follow. I could find no sound bites in it, no 'fortune cookie' wisdom, no wittisisms designed to make the writer look 'hip' and 'with it'. It was simply a statement of fact.

How refreshing. While acknowledging that these kinds of horrors exist, I resist the energy drain that they impose upon my psyche. There are places I have gone in this world that have exposed me to this, and other equally viscious horrors (I agree with Joel, excess is cruel to the undernourished), but I choose to take my emotions, my feelings, my thoughts, to the places I choose to take them.

The terrorists (on both sides... hell! On all sides!) are trying to fill us with fear and terror. They are trying to shrink us down into quivering little piles of protoplasm. Well, to quote a very good friend of mine, FUCK THAT!!!! My act of defiance is cheerfulness. I'm not going to 'fiddle while Rome burns' but I will dance and sing while 'Fredonia's going to War!!'.

Sorry... I keep forgetting that I'm in a minority and should keep these opinions to myself...

Tee hee hee...

Sam

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:17 pm

Perhaps a Fuck the Fearmongers shirt would be in order.

And "The Fearmongers" would be a great band name.

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:25 pm

I could play rhythm, dude...

Sam

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:26 pm

Last Real Burner wrote:Have you watch this video?

What did you think?

Were they right not showing it on public TV?

My niggle is starting a serious thread in a manner that begs for non sequiturs, but I empathize with the queasy tentativeness. At least you didn't start a poll. I haven't watched, and seriously -- it's like asking on 9/12 whether you saw the WTC go down.

What's sick is the parade of politicians grabbing the camera themselves and saying how shocked, shocked they are to find brutality in the midst of a badly planned war (that they supported).

Even McCain could have waited until more facts came out before weighing his & others' treatment in Vietnam against the overall [sic] picture in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:37 pm

It would be nice if ignoring reality made it go away, or even made it more bearable, but it simply isn't so. I refuse to look at the issue through rose-colored lenses, or with blinders on, or even to close my eyes for the scary bits. I think I need to be scared, and sickened. We should all be frightened and sickened that we (humans) have built a world where an individual can become so twisted with hate that he can take the life of another person simply because he does not like what that person is.

Now that I think about it, I think I should see the footage. It think everyone should see the footage. I think everyone should be shown the footage as an example of what hate does to people. It should no longer be publicized as a "look at the horrible thing these men have done," rather as "look what a horrible thing has been done to these men."

Those hooded men are humans, just like the rest of us. They probably have families, wives, children. The capacity that allows them to cut a man's head off is the same capacity that allows some among us to vilify them as monsters. They've been trained to hate Americans just as Americans are being trained to hate them. This is the lasting legacy of Religion.

The preceding opinions are not necessarily those of the poster, or of its management, and are subject to change without notice. That's just how I feel right now.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu May 13, 2004 4:32 pm

1) I say let all the videos, photos and web casts come out so everyone can see, learn and study why these certain sets of cultures, (religious, fascist, illogical, war & Fear monger, secretive fanatic, fundamental Christian, Muslim, Jewish religiously violent humans.) should not exists and how to identify them accurately so that not only will the world be safer but they can be easily be identified and either put away or put to a better use. Like more research of the DNA.

2) Religion should never go with politics. (Truely how the world got into this mess in the first place.)

3) And no matter what everyone thinks, everyone will still have to face the facts, Hollywood or somebody is gonna make a movie from it all.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu May 13, 2004 5:23 pm

"And God created man in his own image"?

BTW where did you see the video. Could you PM it to me so that anyone on eplaya that it would bother does'nt get offended please?

juanicoheal · Post by **juanicoheal** » Thu May 13, 2004 5:29 pm

You don't want to see it, really.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 pm

juanicoheal wrote:You don't want to see it, really.

I would like to know what I'm talking about whenever making a reference.

I think you know I'm thick skinned. I've seen my share of shit.

Last Real Burner · Post by **Last Real Burner** » Thu May 13, 2004 6:43 pm

Do a Google search. I will not post a link.

I am just a (hu)man, like you. Susceptable to the things that change a (hu)man, for better or worse.

quietly,
mr smith

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu May 13, 2004 6:45 pm

Thanks. got it already. Someone is already posting it all over anyway.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu May 13, 2004 6:59 pm

I would like to know what I'm talking about whenever making a reference.

A little late in the race to change horses don't ya think?

Berg Video...

Berg Video...

So sad....

I don't agree with the assertion made above.

Re: Berg Video...

If you throw someone's got to catch...