Preparation includes plans for clean-up ...

[Elderberry]

It will be interesting to see how the "5 minutes to moop" goes over. The DJ has just been building the drugged up crowd to a dancing frenzy; then all of a sudden the music stops for 5 minutes of mooping. Hmmm.... Talk about buzz kill. Just what I wanted to do...moop on mushrooms.

(Though I like the idea, I'm wondering how many people that visit your (or any) dance venue at night really have the LNT spirit of BM first and foremost in their thoughts.)

well our effort was not good enough, and so we have to finger out a way to prevent this from happening again.

i think a regular break for clean-up is a really good idea, and if everyone in the dome at the time just picks up 4-5 pieces of moop, not only will it stop the garbage from being ground in, it'll be a little community fun time that is productive as well.

whistle while you work, or in this case, shoop shoop while you moop.

5-10 minutes every couple of hours IMHO will make a big difference.

i empathize with op temp in the sense that we really have no control over our guests, but we pay the price for their behaviour, or lack of attention to the 10 principles.

there must be a solution to this besides throwing the baby out with the bongwater.

[theCryptofishist]

Well, it should be the measure of a good dj to be able to segue elegantly into a moop sweep.

And given the dj glut the ones that don't succeed can be fed to the gators.

[octoboi]

While I can't speak for other camps where the people were from Utah, I can easily speak for our camp at 4:30 and Chaos. All of us were from Utah and our camp was most certainly very green.

While this was my first year, I was with a group that had been coming for years and they were very thorough in their clean up and in their teaching of us before we even arrived about moop and how to ensure that we were always in compliance with the concepts of keeping our own camp clean as well as searching around us as we wandered for things to pick up.

It's too bad that apparently other Utahn's (as noted in this thread) were not so clean, but I would like to think that the majority of us were.

D. (playa name incoming)

[littleflower]

i also agree that a good DJ should be able to come up with some fun de-moopifying activity.

but another idea ... would it be possible to make de-mooping the big sound camps a volunteer thing? maybe get a hoard of volunteer de-moopers into those camps an hour or so before they open each day, to help clean up? i really don't think it's fair, somehow, that the big sound campers should have to clean up after the people the entertain, even if they do provide the space ... don't they do enough?

[Elderberry]

i also agree that a good DJ should be able to come up with some fun de-moopifying activity.

but another idea ... would it be possible to make de-mooping the big sound camps a volunteer thing? maybe get a hoard of volunteer de-moopers into those camps an hour or so before they open each day, to help clean up? i really don't think it's fair, somehow, that the big sound campers should have to clean up after the people the entertain, even if they do provide the space ... don't they do enough?

I don't think I agree. It is a LNT event, each camp is supposed to LNT. If what the camp is doing is to big for them to LNT maybe it is too big to be at BM? To steal a line from Ygmir "I'm just saying..."

JK

[Elderberry]

Well, it should be the measure of a good dj to be able to segue elegantly into a moop sweep.

And given the dj glut the ones that don't succeed can be fed to the gators.

Interesting thought.

JK

[phil]

i really don't think it's fair, somehow, that the big sound campers should have to clean up after the people the entertain, even if they do provide the space ... don't they do enough?

I'll disagree as well. It's not just that they entertain people, it's that they attract people. If you're going to have a party, you need to have a plan to clean up after it. If you're going to have a camp that attracts hundreds of visitors, you should know you'll have to clean up after the crowd. If the plan is to have the crowd moop daily and it works, I'm happy with that. Whatever works. But if your party is causing a trash disaster, it's your responsibility to clean it up.

Otherwise, _my_ camp entertains people, so I'm not cleaning up.

[C.f.M.]

i really don't think it's fair, somehow, that the big sound campers should have to clean up after the people the entertain, even if they do provide the space ... don't they do enough?

When you have people over for dinner, or throw a kegger, do you sit back the next day and wait for magical fairies to come clean up the space that you provided and you invited people to?

Why would sound camps be different from any other camp that sets up with the sole intention to have other people come and party down?

What do they do, besides make a lot of noise and attracts the ravers that are one of the biggest moop problems BM has?

[littleflower]

i really don't think it's fair, somehow, that the big sound campers should have to clean up after the people the entertain, even if they do provide the space ... don't they do enough?

I'll disagree as well. It's not just that they entertain people, it's that they attract people. If you're going to have a party, you need to have a plan to clean up after it. If you're going to have a camp that attracts hundreds of visitors, you should know you'll have to clean up after the crowd. If the plan is to have the crowd moop daily and it works, I'm happy with that. Whatever works. But if your party is causing a trash disaster, it's your responsibility to clean it up.

Otherwise, _my_ camp entertains people, so I'm not cleaning up.

i didn't mean to suggest that the camps were not responsible for cleaning up the mess.

BUT ... since they add a great deal to the event, at a great cost and a lot of work to themselves, it makes sense to me that there should be an organized way for people - preferably those who the camps do attract - to help them out a bit.

[C.f.M.]

since they add a great deal to the event, at a great cost and a lot of work to themselves, it makes sense to me that there should be an organized way for people - preferably those who the camps do attract - to help them out a bit.

Radical self-reliance.

If they don't want to be responsible for the mess they make, they shouldn't make it.

Unfortunately, they're such a big draw, and hence money-maker, I imagine nobody will stand up to them.

[littleflower]

but radical self reliance isn't working ...

seems to me volunteers are organized for all kinds of stuff during the event ... why not big theme camp clean-up? they get cleaned up in any case, after the event ... why not organize volunteers to help out during?

and yes, i would volunteer. a lot of people here do volunteer mooping ... why not concentrate it where it's needed most?

[unjonharley]

Camp have a LNT plan in there app for a camp and placement..

It's simple.. If you break the agreement of LNT.. Your not invited back..

Some one posted>> The big sound camp spend big money.. Therefor they should be able to trash the place.. BM is not a hotel some Rockers can trash..

[C.f.M.]

but radical self reliance isn't working ...

Radical self-reliance works just fine. You have to actually do it, though. That's the trick.

seems to me volunteers are organized for all kinds of stuff during the event ... why not big theme camp clean-up? they get cleaned up in any case, after the event ... why not organize volunteers to help out during?

Yes, why not? Do it.

and yes, i would volunteer. a lot of people here do volunteer mooping ... why not concentrate it where it's needed most?

Again, do it. "This is a do-ocracy..."

It is not the responsibility of Burning Man to clean up after its participants (theoretically). LNT is one of the basic tenents of the whole damn thing.

If we take out one or two main canons, why keep the rest?

It's all a cult, anyways.

[phil]

there should be an organized way for people - preferably those who the camps do attract - to help them out a bit.

I'll drink to that. Any suggestions on how to make that happen? Getting a bunch of drug-addled hippies to moop is sort of like herding cats, isn't it?
:->

I guess the camps could 'charge admission' by having people moop before they come in? shrug - if you can come up with a workable idea, I'm sure you'll get lots of takers.

[C.f.M.]

First, though, you'd have to replace the DJs and ravers and those involved who are just there to party, and don't give a shit about the 10 principles (or much else aside from getting "fucking wasted," as I saw over and over) aren't "burners," or like-minded folk with, well, burners and like-minded folk.

[littleflower]

http://www.burningman.com/participate/cleanup.html

maybe add a "cleanup during event" link?

it can't be that hard to do ... ?

[Simon of the Playa]

we scored green last year.

we did not this year.

we fucked up, we are sorry, and all we can do is try to do better, again.

i'm all for LNT....i moop whenever i walk ANYWHERE on the playa, and have begun to carry it over to my hometown.

the place still looks like shit, it's going to take more than me i'm afraid.

such is the nature of the beast, i mean HUMANS.

and phil, we host THOUSANDS of you motherfuckers, not hundreds EVERY NIGHT.

ok, we bring it upon ourselves, fine, thats an easy blame to lay...

it is simply a logistical fact that the high traffic areas are going to get trashed...

we do our best to alleviate this problem, but quit sucking the hater-aid, and step back for a second from your high and mighty Purity and give us some SLACK instead of flogging a horse that so many people have ridden on, and had fun doing so.

you don't want Us?

be careful of what you ask for.

[unjonharley]

Oh Simon Simon,

So BM will just dry up and blow away..That is unless we allow a bunch of low life trash the place.

Just what will happen if big sound isn't on the playa???

Will this mean....

[littleflower]

we'd probably lose a great deal of those luscious young nudies we old farts so enjoy looking at...........

[Simon of the Playa]

yeah, whatever...

attack me and my friends and playa family and i will bite your fucking head off plain and simple.

we did a damn good job out there, and we have been, year in and year out.

we have held together as a theme camp for more than the "usual" life of one and have only gotten bigger, stronger and better.


maybe this is the issue, a little bit o' Dome envy in play here, well guess what, this too shall pass, Big Sound is here to stay, and y'all better find something else to bitch about because i will go toe to toe with anyone anytime anyday over this issue.

nit-pickers and armchair quarterbacks can all go fuck yourselves.

spend a day with us in our camp, and we'll show you what it means to live the 10 principles and Burning Man Ethos.

otherwise, shut the fuck up unless you have something constructive to offer on how to solve this problem


for those of you that think the big sound camps ARE the problem, well, i got one thing for you...


this.





i dont hide, you know what i look like and you know where i'll be.

come and find me if you got a problem with me.


death before dishonor, so dont dis me unless you plan on backing your shit up.

[unjonharley]

we'd probably lose a great deal of those luscious young nudies we old farts so enjoy looking at...........

I'm old enough to enjoy some of the older ones..

[Simon of the Playa]

someone please take my leash off.

[goathead]

done

Sic'em

[unjonharley]

yeah, whatever...

attack me and my friends and playa family and i will bite your fucking head off plain and simple.

we did a damn good job out there, and we have been, year in and year out.

we have held together as a theme camp for more than the "usual" life of one and have only gotten bigger, stronger and better.


maybe this is the issue, a little bit o' Dome envy in play here, well guess what, this too shall pass, Big Sound is here to stay, and y'all better find something else to bitch about because i will go toe to toe with anyone anytime anyday over this issue.

nit-pickers and armchair quarterbacks can all go fuck yourselves.

spend a day with us in our camp, and we'll show you what it means to live the 10 principles and Burning Man Ethos.

otherwise, shut the fuck up unless you have something constructive to offer on how to solve this problem


for those of you that think the big sound camps ARE the problem, well, i got one thing for you...


this.





i dont hide, you know what i look like and you know where i'll be.

come and find me if you got a problem with me.


death before dishonor, so dont dis me unless you plan on backing your shit up.

MyMy, arn't you some hot shit...

[goathead]

yeah, whatever...

attack me and my friends and playa family and i will bite your fucking head off plain and simple.

we did a damn good job out there, and we have been, year in and year out.

we have held together as a theme camp for more than the "usual" life of one and have only gotten bigger, stronger and better.


maybe this is the issue, a little bit o' Dome envy in play here, well guess what, this too shall pass, Big Sound is here to stay, and y'all better find something else to bitch about because i will go toe to toe with anyone anytime anyday over this issue.

nit-pickers and armchair quarterbacks can all go fuck yourselves.

spend a day with us in our camp, and we'll show you what it means to live the 10 principles and Burning Man Ethos.

otherwise, shut the fuck up unless you have something constructive to offer on how to solve this problem


for those of you that think the big sound camps ARE the problem, well, i got one thing for you...


this.





i dont hide, you know what i look like and you know where i'll be.

come and find me if you got a problem with me.


death before dishonor, so dont dis me unless you plan on backing your shit up.

MyMy, arn't you some hot shit...

Considering what they do, yes they are some hot shit.

[Boijoy]

How do you get a " red mark " anyhow? I mean how much moop are we talking about?? three cig. butts?? a small bag?? a truck load ?? what ??
Did Simon piss off the DPW and they mooped him after he left?

ok,, what was that song we all used to dance to in college? I think it was by the blues brothers.. and it was a crowd dance where you threw your hands in the air.. then got lower and lower until you were dancing on the ground. Just have the dj play that song.. & when everyone is on the ground, ask them to pick up moop. done and done.

[unjonharley]

Considering what they do, yes they are some hot shit.

this makes it ok for them to do as they please and stomp over the single camper..

He can suck my ass..

[Simon of the Playa]

thanks goat-head.

i appreciate the support...with that said, i will try to contain myself, even when my hackles are raised, and right now i feel like a rhodesian ridgeback.


i ask for suggestions to help us fix this problem, not what you think about big sound or ravers.

it's about moop, and how we can eliminate it.

i apologize unjon, if i seem a bit hair-trigger....i am as far as this is concerned.

i will try to keep my anger at seemingly asinine comments to a minimum, mostly for my own blood pressure.

and yes, i am hot shit, by the way...

deal with it.

[C.f.M.]

If I were given a choice b/t BM w/ large sound domes, and BM without them, I wouldn't even have to even think about hesitating before replying "Without." No question.

That part of BM, for me, was pretty much like an entirely different festival.

But, until my trip to the playa, the whole raver scene wasn't much a part of any burns, meet and greets or other burner-related events/activities I've been a part of.

Those who came to Burning Man through glowsticks and bikini bottoms would, of course, disagree.

it's about moop, and how we can eliminate it.

How to eliminate moop? Those responsible for a designated area of land do not leave the premises until all MOOP is removed, and the area has no trace of them having been there.

Like all the areas coloured green did.

No excuses. You agree to leave no trace, then don't.

[Simon of the Playa]

to each his own....i am not a Raver, thank you very much, but i do love to DANCE.


i've been going since 96', and quite frankly, there is something for everyone.

let's keep it that way, Huh?