Berg Video...

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu May 13, 2004 7:00 pm

Badger wrote:
I would like to know what I'm talking about whenever making a reference.
A little late in the race to change horses don't ya think?

I was just waiting for you to say something.

Touche!

Rabbi Dali Rick · Post by **Rabbi Dali Rick** » Thu May 13, 2004 10:17 pm

WAR…

Weep child your father is dead,
Metal teeth have mangled his body,
He waits for you now in the light of heaven,
Sent as an injustice, but what of his soul,
Engaging an enemy whose face he won't see,
Fighting the impenetrable reason of others, sworn to render,
His life freely given, like fuel to an uncontrollable fire,
Racing to a passion of distasteful regret,
Shout his name to St. Peter, sing a song of lost hero's and battles,
His tomb will not hold him, how unwilling the thought,
Make wasted life your breastplate, that should comfort you at night,
Lie there and remember how soft was his smile,
Take his anger, forward the kill,
Oh, to keep memories in jars in your heart,
Sleep child, I'll hold you till tomorrows light.

Rabbi Dali Rick

drowned_saved · Post by **drowned_saved** » Thu May 13, 2004 10:40 pm

i understand badger's revulsion, but disagree with his conclusion/prescription.

to look squarely at barbarism is sometimes the first step toward guarding against it.

the berg video, IMO, has historical value. it is a document of our times in the same way that films and photographs from the extermination camps were/are. how we agree to contextualize the video (or disagree) could make, quite literally, all the difference in the world.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu May 13, 2004 11:12 pm

to look squarely at barbarism is sometimes the first step toward guarding against it.

And how would you suggest that anyone living 7+ thousand miles away from the scene of the murder might be empowered to 'guard' against it by watching a grainy version of a gruesome slaughter of another human being?

Sounds good saying it on paper seeing as such justifications or reasons - excuses actually - puts a marginally noble face on the argument. I'd argue that if one wants to empower themselves against such barbarism that one of the better ways to do it would be to read and discuss (either intenally or with other persons) all facets of the discussion that arises out such brutality rather than just witnessing the act itself.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu May 13, 2004 11:42 pm

Well,

I know I wish Patience were here so I could hear his input about this thread and the new (not so new ) info about the CIA.

Things seem to be starting to come to light.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu May 13, 2004 11:49 pm

Anybody else watching From Hell?

Yow.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri May 14, 2004 2:07 am

That was a royal slaughter, and no mistake.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri May 14, 2004 2:08 am

You still watching it?

drowned_saved · Post by **drowned_saved** » Fri May 14, 2004 5:57 am

Badger wrote:And how would you suggest that anyone living 7+ thousand miles away from the scene of the murder might be empowered to 'guard' against it by watching a grainy version of a gruesome slaughter of another human being?

Sounds good saying it on paper seeing as such justifications or reasons - excuses actually - puts a marginally noble face on the argument. I'd argue that if one wants to empower themselves against such barbarism that one of the better ways to do it would be to read and discuss (either intenally or with other persons) all facets of the discussion that arises out such brutality rather than just witnessing the act itself.

i think you've taken "guard aginst it" too literally here. i meant simply that the video can help to nurture an attitude of "never again" or even "this has got to stop. what can i do to make this stop?"

i don't see that my argument is a "noble" one, or even marginally so, and i'm confused about why you see it in that light. i wouldn't like to make heroes out of those who watched. i only want it stated, that the images of barbarism, can serve a useful purpose WHEN they placed into a historical context.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Fri May 14, 2004 9:05 am

True to form, this is for Simply Joel:

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Fri May 14, 2004 9:06 am

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat the eleventh grade.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri May 14, 2004 9:35 am

From Hell is the Alan Moore take on the Whitechapel murders, translated from the original intricately plotted graphic novels (ie comics) to an abbreviated, expurgated, eviscerated Johnny Depp vehicle. Jason Flemyng as Netley the coach driver has the best acting turn, and Ian Holm can do no wrong as the surgeon, Gull. Bob-Joe says "check (it) out".

As for yellow journalism -- it all started with the first paintings and scratchings exagerating the carnal prowess of carnivorous cave cults. Fuck the image of the Noble Savage -- all they were after was fresh meat, and social control over the ritual of the hunt.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Fri May 14, 2004 10:37 am

Jason Flemyng as Netley the coach driver has the best acting turn,

Yep and Depp has the most seductive scene in the movie soaking in a steaming bathtub while dissolving a laudanum soaked sugar cube over a glass of absinthe.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri May 14, 2004 11:43 am

I wonder if Bush has seen the video.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Fri May 14, 2004 2:21 pm

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ ... 071264.htm

interestingly enough, when you search for "berg video" on ALJAZEERA you don't get anything but an error message.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri May 14, 2004 2:35 pm

Simply Joel wrote:http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ ... 071264.htm

interestingly enough, when you search for "berg video" on ALJAZEERA you don't get anything but an error message.

They're english server has always crashed since it's conception. when they were first put online some idiot hacked them.

Last Real Burner · Post by **Last Real Burner** » Fri May 14, 2004 11:21 pm

Should the complete set of pictures and videos of the Iraqi prisoner abuse be released to the public? Would it be better to release them now and clear the air of the whole mess? or hold the remaining back until the furor blows over? Will the new softening of interrogation methods be our undoing?

"Practice peace, beat the shit out of your enemies."

inquisitivly,
mr smith

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri May 14, 2004 11:36 pm

Will the new softening of interrogation methods be our undoing?

The undoing - the unraveling - started well before the prison abuse expose. Many valid data points to consider. Many of them equally worthy to consider as the starting point. My huntch is sometime after his college days W saw Jesus and told him to stop drinking. The cementing of that time line of course was when Sadam tried to have Skippy (W Sr.) knocked off.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat May 15, 2004 2:15 am

Well,

I say lets talk about it.

here is what is actually going on and everyone can do all the investigating they want to do and come up to the same conclusion about it. It's all very very stupid for stupid people.

from cowboyangel's site

For those that cant handle the real thing....It's done from a distance. Still the real thing.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat May 15, 2004 2:59 am

Fact: this is what war is and what war brings about including what happened to Berg.

Is this what Americans want? If so then please say so or blow off this post. Vote for bush. (No Capps on bush) none of this would have come about if the genetically defected were not in power. Yes, if the the LOW IQ were not in power. Anyone that thinks that we are fighting the terrorists are suckers. This is a culture bread in America and Brittan that we should be fighting. (for the thick skinned only) KKK, Nazi’s and racist’s. They rule the military. Prove me wrong.

( dont get me wrong....I'm mellow tonight.) please post some facts to prove me wrong.

Thank you very much.

I want Peace but it is not gonna happen with the less intelligent.

(I'm not talking about mistakes. I'm talking about making intentional positive results.)

Please don’t get me wrong. I have some very good friends that have taken very good care of me,
that really don’t understand,
that trust me very much to make the most rational decisions. and if I make a mistake, it comes out with a positive result because I was going for a positive conclusion.

My theory is this....if it feels wrong most likely it is.

War is a serious thing and very many people have been lied to by this administration and have been suckered. including Colin powell and many others.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:11 am

Last Real Burner wrote:Should the complete set of pictures and videos of the Iraqi prisoner abuse be released to the public? Would it be better to release them now and clear the air of the whole mess? or hold the remaining back until the furor blows over? Will the new softening of interrogation methods be our undoing?

"Practice peace, beat the shit out of your enemies."

inquisitivly,
mr smith

I say yes, release all the videos and let the chips fall where they may.

I say lets look to "NextFest" and look to a new and positive future. Please not let us follow the dumb dumbs and go backwards.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:20 am

The Last Real Burner is the most awsome.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat May 15, 2004 4:46 am

Hey,

It's all good ya'll, PEACE.

Last Real Burner · Post by **Last Real Burner** » Sat May 15, 2004 7:59 am

DVD Burner dude, consolodate those post for me from now on, would you. Five, back to back post is too much for my little brain to take in... it makes my head swim. It's like having a conversation with someone who won't let you get a word in edgewise...

you're ol' pal,
the rebbi

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat May 15, 2004 8:06 am

Sorry...My bad.

Last Real Burner · Post by **Last Real Burner** » Sat May 15, 2004 8:08 am

Thank you.... Now where were we..

Should the complete set of pictures and videos of the Iraqi prisoner abuse be released to the public? Would it be better to release them now and clear the air of the whole mess? or hold the remaining back until the furor blows over? Will the new softening of interrogation methods be our undoing?

"Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your mouth is moving."

deriviativly,
mr smith

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon May 17, 2004 12:10 pm

I have to agree with DVD Burner (and Badger?) when he says that this is what war is. All was inevitable except in the details from the beginning of the invasion. And curse the designer wars of the 1980s (Grenada, Panama and Gulf War I) for teaching us that war wasn't suffering. And if GB I had two wars in 4 years while Foam-at-the-Mouth-Hatred-Man Reagan (no offensense meant to any avatar on this board) had only 1 in 8 years, that might have told us something about the lineage's propensity towards war-mongering. Not to mention his sore-loser, back-handed Christmas present to Bill Clinton, "Operation Restore Hope." We should have learned something about suffering from that adventure, and from watching Rwanda and ex-Yugoslavia, instead of trying to figure out how to have better won Americans over to our own behavior in Vietnam.
I would have, and probably still would, have supported a closely targeted operation against Al Quada. Somehow, the most twisted aspect of all this is the nagging feeling I have that Osama ben Ladin is one of the few people in the world safer than he was on September 12, 2001.

SED · Post by **SED** » Mon May 17, 2004 9:09 pm

I saw the video. I've seen worse and more impressive stuff. The airplane hitting the towers, for example. The whack-jobs who snuffed Berg came off as a bunch of crude punks and Berg himself was an idiot for even being in-country on his own. What should a Jew expect over there anyway?

Where are all the Muslims demonstrating loudly and in public that this is not Islam? Where is Peace Now movement in the Islamic world?

I'm just as sure that whatever got dealt out to the Iraqi prisoners was a game of patty cake compared to what they could have expected from Saddam. Not that it was okayto treat them like that, but I'd like to know what landed them in that prison to begin with. There hasn't been a word on that in any of the journals I've seen.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed May 19, 2004 2:28 pm

I'd like to know what landed them in that prison to begin with. There hasn't been a word on that in any of the journals I've seen.

actually there has been quite a lot. The red cross reported that a majority of people were arrested under false pretenses. What landed them in prison? Being Arab. Tough luck as they were in an Arab country.
Also, brining up Saddam and trying to equivocate is despicable. Remember how we were ousting that guy in order to bring these people freedom? Oooops!

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed May 19, 2004 2:29 pm

so sorry, I forgot, it was about WMDs, not freedom.

Berg Video...

My Life is not a post-it note...

My other car is a keyboard...

And all this time I thought it was me...

I am a social experiment gone awrye....