Drink Spiking (Getting Dosed) is Urban Myth

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:01 pm

djaded wrote: Am I mistaken to say that your aim was to attack the credibility of female rape victims? Females in general?

Yes, you are mistaken. I will accept your appology whenever you decide to make it.

JK

djaded · Post by **djaded** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:44 pm

I will give you an apology when you give me some proper "facts".

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:48 pm

maybe you two can agree that pickled herring is good.......

have some, it's soothing......

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:53 pm

djaded wrote:I will give you an apology when you give me some proper "facts".

Facts!? I posted a "'news' story" with all the "facts" included in that story as reported by all the news outlets that carried the story. I added a link to the organization that did the study. If you want any more "facts" buy the study, it's not available free online.

My post wasn't about the "facts", it was about the story and the problem. I was hoping the discussion that followed would fill in the myriad problems with the story.

So, I'm still waiting...your appology is still in order.

JK

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:10 pm

If some victims turned out to be victims of their own excess, it doesn't mean that all victims are this way.
That's the big logical hole in your story.

djaded · Post by **djaded** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:18 pm

Ugly Dougly is right. Look up the difference between "theory" and "fact" and we can resume the discussion from there.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:22 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:If some victims turned out to be victims of their own excess, it doesn't mean that all victims are this way.
That's the big logical hole in your story.

It is NOT MY STORY.

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:22 pm

djaded wrote:Ugly Dougly is right. Look up the difference between "theory" and "fact" and we can resume the discussion from there.

OK, let me just be the first one to appologize for your ignorance. IT IS NOT MY STORY YOU IDIOT.

JK

djaded · Post by **djaded** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:33 pm

You claim your new story/study is fact. You obviously do not know what a fact actually is.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:40 pm

djaded wrote:You claim your new story/study is fact. You obviously do not know what a fact actually is.

I am starting to think I am responding to a two year old. Can you please quote from any post of mine in this thread where I claimed that there was anything true of factual in this story other than to report that it exists?

The only fact that I acknowledged is that the story and the report exists.

Idiot.

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:45 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:If some victims turned out to be victims of their own excess, it doesn't mean that all victims are this way.
That's the big logical hole in your story.

Actually UD, it doesn't mean that even a victim who was victimized because of their own abuse of drugs and alcohol is any less a victim. I thought I had said this from the beginning.

Though I will admit, I think I might have less sympathy for that victim. (OK, if anyone wants at me for thinking/saying this, go for it; but understand that this is the FIRST time in this thread I have said anything negative about a victim.)

JK

djaded · Post by **djaded** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:47 pm

jkisha wrote:
djaded wrote:I will give you an apology when you give me some proper "facts".
Facts!? I posted a "'news' story" with all the "facts" included in that story as reported by all the news outlets that carried the story. I added a link to the organization that did the study. If you want any more "facts" buy the study,

JK

The study isn't fact. The news story isn't fact. I still offer my apology if you have actual facts, which you don't.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:47 pm

So I am not sure what you are trying to say.
Are you saying that nobody ever slipped anyone a Mickey Finn? How large was the sample size?

Or are you just saying, using a sippy cup doesn't help if you drink too much?

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:47 pm

ygmir wrote:maybe you two can agree that pickled herring is good.......

have some, it's soothing......

Hmmm....it doesn't look soothing. Plus, I don't want to be soothed right now. I'm pissed.

But thanks for the thought Ygmir

JK

djaded · Post by **djaded** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:50 pm

Data does not equal fact. You should really get a dictionary.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:57 pm

djaded wrote:Data does not equal fact. You should really get a dictionary.

Again I will repeat this for the third time for you, very slowly I.... N E V E R.... S A I D...., A N Y W H E R E.... I N.... T H I S.... P O S T...., T H A T.... W H A T.... W A S.... C O N T A I N E D.... I N.... T H E.... S T O R Y.... O R.... T H E.... R E P O R T.... W A S.... A.... F A C T...., T R U E.... O R.... O T H E R W I S E.... . I.... O N L Y.... P O S T E D.... T H E.... S T O R Y....; C O M P L E T E.... W I T H.... M Y.... D I S C L A I M E R.

JK

djaded · Post by **djaded** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:07 pm

Yes you did. I am still waiting for an actual fact! This news story and study is not fact it is data!

djaded wrote:
jkisha wrote:
djaded wrote:I will give you an apology when you give me some proper "facts".
Facts!? I posted a "'news' story" with all the "facts" included in that story as reported by all the news outlets that carried the story. I added a link to the organization that did the study. If you want any more "facts" buy the study,

JK
The study isn't fact. The news story isn't fact. I still offer my apology if you have actual facts, which you don't.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:30 pm

djaded wrote:Yes you did. I am still waiting for an actual fact! This news story and study is not fact it is data!

djaded wrote:
jkisha wrote: Facts!? I posted a "'news' story" with all the "facts" included in that story as reported by all the news outlets that carried the story. I added a link to the organization that did the study. If you want any more "facts" buy the study,

JK
The study isn't fact. The news story isn't fact. I still offer my apology if you have actual facts, which you don't.

And I suppose you think evolution isn't fact either...just data. You are an IDIOT. Why don't you supply facts that debunk anything in the report...though you'll have to purchase a copy of the report first.

I repeat, you are an IDIOT. I wish I had something better to do today, but since I don't, I'll just waste my time replying to your idiotic posts.

JK

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:39 pm

Yeah, this is productive. You know, there is always the option for everyone to just stop. Because this is getting to the Last Word cycle.

And yes, I have to read this crap and no, I am not enjoying the experience.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:45 pm

AntiM wrote:Yeah, this is productive. You know, there is always the option for everyone to just stop. Because this is getting to the Last Word cycle.

And yes, I have to read this crap and no, I am not enjoying the experience.

Sorry, but I really don't have anything better to do today. Sad, isn't it.

JK

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:47 pm

I have tears in my eyes, so, so sad.

djaded · Post by **djaded** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:51 pm

Ok Jk you win. I'm tired of trying to explain where your arguement went wrong.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:03 pm

djaded wrote:Ok Jk you win. I'm tired of trying to explain where your arguement went wrong.

good, because I never presented any argument--either for or against the article. the only thing I said one way or the other, is that true or not, it still doesn't excuse date rape. So, how can you argue with that to begin with?

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:05 pm

AntiM wrote:I have tears in my eyes, so, so sad.

Ya, plus my facebook account was disabled and my mother died. woe is me.

JK

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:34 pm

All of this reminds me of the psychotic reactions from the anti-alcohol crowd to scientists who have demonstrated that lives can be saved by teaching people how to handle alcohol more safely.
This has made any consideration of this by politicians untenable.
A military study years ago found that people experienced enough with alcohol, could actually perform better drunk than sober.
Try getting a politician or MADD meeting to discuss this.
I think it might go something like this-
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

So...
Do more people die because of this denial?
Or would considering it encourage more people to do dangerous things?

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:39 pm

gyre wrote:All of this reminds me of the psychotic reactions from the anti-alcohol crowd to scientists who have demonstrated that lives can be saved by teaching people how to handle alcohol more safely.
This has made any consideration of this by politicians untenable.
A military study years ago found that people experienced enough with alcohol, could actually perform better drunk than sober.
Try getting a politician or MADD meeting to discuss this.
I think it might go something like this-
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

So...
Do more people die because of this denial?
Or would considering it encourage more people to do dangerous things?

I actually think I remember that study...part of it consisted of testing people that learned a task while drunk; they then tested them on the same task both drunk and sober and they were able to perform the task better while drunk. Those that learned sober were able to perform better sober. (At least that was the way I remember it--you dug pretty far back for that one.)

Love the link.

JK

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:56 pm

That's basically it, though the first I'm aware of goes back to the forties and involved drunk flying.
This was expanded to drunk driving and other tasks with similar results.

I had forgotten about it, but my high school sociology project involved giving a friend an ounce every minute and testing for memory retention, etc.
It got pretty hysterical with his wife chiming in at times.
"WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MY HUSBAND!!!"
I taped all of it.
His memory of random number sequences seemed to improve and he either improved or tested the same for everything else.
The physical dexterity tests improved too.
I did get him to the point where he couldn't walk though.
He was my martial arts trainer and just didn't have the same reactions to alcohol as other people.
Conclusions: you can get people to do some pretty crazy things.

High school was interesting.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:03 pm

jkisha wrote: I actually think I remember that study...part of it consisted of testing people that learned a task while drunk; they then tested them on the same task both drunk and sober and they were able to perform the task better while drunk. Those that learned sober were able to perform better sober. (At least that was the way I remember it--you dug pretty far back for that one.)

Love the link.

JK

There was a scientist more recently advocating for driver training to handle slight impairment safely.
Other scientists were afraid to touch the idea.

Part of it was becoming aware of exactly how impaired you really are.
Avoiding high risk activity, etc.

Post by **Sham** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:29 pm

bump I'm kind of bored here!

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:48 pm

LMAO Ya, you better duck and cover!

JK