I Have The Swine Flu, Now What?...

[ygmir]

egad, JK........really?..............

where have your "gray areas" gone? what's with this "black and white" world view?............

[Elderberry]

interesting, JK,

for such a critical thinker, it seems, at times, you buy into "the government is always looking out for us and would never put us at risk".........

( I also understand, that, I'm pretty cynical regarding government anything, so, may be just as jaded the opposite direction)

but,
There is evidence of deleterious effects from vaccinations, of all sorts.......maybe even not so much the "vaccine", but, the chemicals used to make it and carriers,etc.........

And, the gov. has a track record of "human experiments" on unsuspecting citizens in just this manner.........(military personnel, folks certain areas for control groups, folks of particular ethnicity, etc)

the mindset of "the collective" can, at times be counterproductive........

also, the theory that if everyone else gets vaccinated, you don't have to..........

just some random thoughts..........

from, a random thinker.

It has nothing to do with the government, it is all about the medical science.

Yes "some" people--a VERY small percentage--will have adverse side effects to almost any medication or vacination; but this does not justify not getting the vaccine; (Unless you know you are alergic to eggs.) And because you might be that one person in a million to experience a negative side effect of the vaccine is no reason for that person to tell everyone they know not to get the shot.

OK, the government did some experiments that were heinous. They got caught, it's over. And if it's not over, they will get caught again. There is too much transparency these days and it is much harder for the government to pull that crap. But again, the flu shot is NOT ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT.

And that theory about if everybody else gets it, I won't have too is proving to not be a very good theory, as almost 40% of the population are now putting their faith in that theory.

Why do people try so hard to argue with science? It seems the more we learn and know, the more the masses become irrationally resistant to accepting the new knowledge. Hmm....I have a high-school edumacation, I know what's best for medical vacinations. Or even I have a colledge degree (in philosophy) and I know what's best regarding medical vacinations. Ya, right.

OK I have to stop now, I'm just getting pissed.

JK

[can't sit still]

"Why do people try so hard to argue with science?"
Well, you've pretty much defined yourself with a comment like this. Science is an ongoing process of opinion, speculation, testing, extrapolating and arguing. I can assume that ALL of your statements here are likewise made in jest.

[ygmir]

interesting, JK,

OK I have to stop now, I'm just getting pissed.

JK

now JK.....don't get pissed..........there is valuable discourse here.........opposing viewpoints, both with validity..........
you add much to these sort of discussions......

IMHO, that is........

[oneeyeddick]

Science is a black hole that won't stop sucking things onto it and doing whatever it is that they think happens to it after that.

Yeah....science.

[Risky]

Georgia had 3100 specimens tested for swine flu; 97% came back negative. The test results take two weeks, yet it's stated that swine flu must be treated within 48 hrs. Have you unnecessarily been treated? Will the antibiotic be effective if you really need it a second time?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/ ... 4829.shtml

I posted this on another board. Being treated unnecessarily does not help our immune systems to fight for themselves. Then you would be absolutely correct, jkisha, we would need help to fight these mutating illnesses. Shouldn't we be trying to allow our immune systems to defeat illnesses naturally?

[ygmir]

Science is a black hole that won't stop sucking things onto it and doing whatever it is that they think happens to it after that.

Yeah....science.

there you go, channeling medieval Popes and Cardinals again.....

put the Ouija board away.......

[oneeyeddick]

Back in the day, a Ouija board was considered a scientific tool.

[littleflower]

scientists created nukes.

i not only doubt that many - even most - secrets are beyond human comprehension .... i do not trust what we would do with that knowledge if we had it.

please don't get mad JK! you might pound too hard and hurt yourself ... and we need you here!

[Elderberry]

Being treated unnecessarily does not help our immune systems to fight for themselves. Then you would be absolutely correct, jkisha, we would need help to fight these mutating illnesses. Shouldn't we be trying to allow our immune systems to defeat illnesses naturally?

Flu shots are designed to do just that--allow your immune system to produce the needed antibodies by injecting either weakened or dead virus into your body. This gives your body the ability to develop immunity to the flu. So the next time your body contacts a live and non-weakened virus in the natural environment, your body has developed the ability to fight off the virus. And chances of death become greatly deminished.

That's the whole purpose and mechanism of the flu shot. Allow your immune system to defeat a specific illness on a weakened virus--sort of like training wheels.

Doing it strictly "naturally" would work--if it didn't kill you. That's the whole purpose of the flu shot--it was developed because of the understanding of how your body does it naturally, and then allows it to do so in a much more controlled way with much better results.

JK

JK

[Elderberry]

Back in the day, a Ouija board was considered a scientific tool.

More a tool of the devil than the scientist, I believe.

JK

[ygmir]

Back in the day, a Ouija board was considered a scientific tool.

More a tool of the devil than the scientist, I believe.

JK

ok, that's it, both of you quit with the medieval catholic channeling stuff.........

[Risky]

Being treated unnecessarily does not help our immune systems to fight for themselves. Then you would be absolutely correct, jkisha, we would need help to fight these mutating illnesses. Shouldn't we be trying to allow our immune systems to defeat illnesses naturally?

Flu shots are designed to do just that--allow your immune system to produce the needed antibodies by injecting either weakened or dead virus into your body. This gives your body the ability to develop immunity to the flu. So the next time your body contacts a live and non-weakened virus in the natural environment, your body has developed the ability to fight off the virus. And chances of death become greatly deminished.

That's the whole purpose and mechanism of the flu shot. Allow your immune system to defeat a specific illness on a weakened virus--sort of like training wheels.

Doing it strictly "naturally" would work--if it didn't kill you. That's the whole purpose of the flu shot--it was developed because of the understanding of how your body does it naturally, and then allows it to do so in a much more controlled way with much better results.

JK

JK

The flu must be treated in 48 hrs, and the test to determine whether you have contracted the flu takes 2 wks for results. Folks are being treated whether they need it or not, and that does affect their immune systems. What happens when they truly do get it? Will the antibiotic work the second time around? When this antibiotic is overused in your system, will the next next antibiotic created for the next flu be effective? I just feel this is rushed, and the fact that it was screwed up the first time created the hesitancy.

[ygmir]

Being treated unnecessarily does not help our immune systems to fight for themselves. Then you would be absolutely correct, jkisha, we would need help to fight these mutating illnesses. Shouldn't we be trying to allow our immune systems to defeat illnesses naturally?

Flu shots are designed to do just that--allow your immune system to produce the needed antibodies by injecting either weakened or dead virus into your body. This gives your body the ability to develop immunity to the flu. So the next time your body contacts a live and non-weakened virus in the natural environment, your body has developed the ability to fight off the virus. And chances of death become greatly deminished.

That's the whole purpose and mechanism of the flu shot. Allow your immune system to defeat a specific illness on a weakened virus--sort of like training wheels.

Doing it strictly "naturally" would work--if it didn't kill you. That's the whole purpose of the flu shot--it was developed because of the understanding of how your body does it naturally, and then allows it to do so in a much more controlled way with much better results.

JK

JK

The flu must be treated in 48 hrs, and the test to determine whether you have contracted the flu takes 2 wks for results. Folks are being treated whether they need it or not, and that does affect their immune systems. What happens when they truly do get it? Will the antibiotic work the second time around? When this antibiotic is overused in your system, will the next next antibiotic created for the next flu be effective? I just feel this is rushed, and the fact that it was screwed up the first time created the hesitancy.

sometimes, it helps to look at the money/power trail...and, who's promoting it............and, therefore, who profits........

big profit in all that vaccine..........big power in "saving" us and, "looking out for our best interests"..........

just sayin'............

[theCryptofishist]

Will the antibiotic be effective if you really need it a second time?

No one should be taking antibiotics for this.

[theCryptofishist]

[Isotopia]

When this antibiotic is overused in your system, will the next next antibiotic created for the next flu be effective? I just feel this is rushed, and the fact that it was screwed up the first time created the hesitancy.

The flu shot is NOT an anti-biotic. Flu is transferred by a virus. To not know this basic fact suggests that you are as fucking ignorant as you are uninformed and shouldn't even be chiming in here with your blathering commentary.

Now, go stand in the corner until AFTER the flu season has passed and please, for fuck's sake, keep your fucking mouth shut regarding this topic.

Why? Because your post suggests that you are a fucking idiot.

[theCryptofishist]

Influenza Orphans

The effect of the influenza epidemic was so severe that the average life span in the US was depressed by 10 years. The influenza virus had a profound virulence, with a mortality rate at 2.5% compared to the previous influenza epidemics, which were less than 0.1%. The death rate for 15 to 34-year-olds of influenza and pneumonia were 20 times higher in 1918 than in previous years (Taubenberger). People were struck with illness on the street and died rapid deaths. One anectode shared of 1918 was of four women playing bridge together late into the night. Overnight, three of the women died from influenza (Hoagg). Others told stories of people on their way to work suddenly developing the flu and dying within hours (Henig). One physician writes that patients with seemingly ordinary influenza would rapidly "develop the most viscous type of pneumonia that has ever been seen" and later when cyanosis appeared in the patients, "it is simply a struggle for air until they suffocate," (Grist, 1979). Another physician recalls that the influenza patients "died struggling to clear their airways of a blood-tinged froth that sometimes gushed from their nose and mouth," (Starr, 1976). The physicians of the time were helpless against this powerful agent of influenza....The conditions in 1918 were not so far removed from the Black Death in the era of the bubonic plague of the Middle Ages.

[oneeyeddick]

If we didn't take immunizations, wouldn't smallpox be as big of a hit as it was back in the day ?

I am so torn on this topic.

eenie-meenie-miney-moe.......

[theCryptofishist]

[oneeyeddick]

The ghost nurse over on the right scared the piss out of that fella in the middle there.

[Risky]

When this antibiotic is overused in your system, will the next next antibiotic created for the next flu be effective? I just feel this is rushed, and the fact that it was screwed up the first time created the hesitancy.

The flu shot is NOT an anti-biotic. Flu is transferred by a virus. To not know this basic fact suggests that you are as fucking ignorant as you are uninformed and shouldn't even be chiming in here with your blathering commentary.

Now, go stand in the corner until AFTER the flu season has passed and please, for fuck's sake, keep your fucking mouth shut regarding this topic.

Why? Because your post suggests that you are a fucking idiot.

You're an asshole, Iso.
I'm not talking about the flu shot for vaccine or immunization, which is before you have symptoms.

I am speaking about the cases that are being "treated" within the 48hrs after identifying symptoms.
When these cases are "treated", what are they treating it with, if not an antibiotic?

[theCryptofishist]

Influenza is not "the flu." Flue on Steroids, Super Flu, the Flu from Hell--take your pick. We are so fucking lucky. We haven't lived in a village where the entire young adult to middle aged population just died. We haven't had corpses on the streets rotting because there's there aren't enough undertakers and gravediggers to bury them. We haven't holed up in our houses for weeks because we are too afraid to go out there. We haven't had to look for food when all the people who grow, harvest, transport, and sell it are ill or taking care of their ill or in morning and the system is fucking broken. We haven't been happy to have a third year medical student to give us medical care because all the doctors and nurses who would ordinarily do it don't have the time because they are busy with the dieing. Or dead themselves. We don't know what it's like to have a shortage of all useful medications because they've been used up and those people who produce it and ship it and sell it are experiencing the same kind of systemic breakdown that the food supply chain is. We don't know what it's like to have so many people sick at the same time that schools are closed to children and the auditoriums and gym are dormitories for the ill. I don't know that this H1N1 will become an influenza pandemic. I do know that an influenza epidemic is coming. It's like living on the fault line, widespread sudden death could happen at any time, with very little warning. When it happens, when people start dieing everywhere, when people can just about see the guy with the scythe walking down the street, those who haven't had vaccinations will be unable to get them. They may have the privilege of watching those friends and family, the people they love most, who took their advise not to get vaccinated, die.
WE are children, playing. We don't know what kind of suffering exists in this world. We don't know what "helpless" means. We don't know what it is to lose a whole world.
Life is a crapshoot, and sooner or later we roll death.

So far, this H1N1 flu hasn't been particularly heinous. There are two scary things about it. 1--It's year round, milder in the summer, but still there. 2--In very rare cases, sick people can go from no respiratory symptoms to multiple organ failure in 24 hours.

[theCryptofishist]

Anybody who treats flu or influenza with antibiotics is a quack. All he's doing is breeding a superbug.
Now spend some time with Google and find out the difference between a virus and a bacteria.

[gyre]

We were talking the other day about my grandfather's brother who died in the great war from the flu.
I can't help wondering what the family would be like without losing half of that family line.


The spanish flu didn't start out dangerous.

Everyone with any education should know all about the flu epizoodic and understand what keeps the same type of mutation from happening again.

[Elderberry]

The flu must be treated in 48 hrs, and the test to determine whether you have contracted the flu takes 2 wks for results. Folks are being treated whether they need it or not, and that does affect their immune systems. What happens when they truly do get it? Will the antibiotic work the second time around? When this antibiotic is overused in your system, will the next next antibiotic created for the next flu be effective? I just feel this is rushed, and the fact that it was screwed up the first time created the hesitancy.

You are absolutely right.

I was going to ask what you meant by "treatment", but just decided to go with the second paragraph of your original post as defining the first and I assumed your were inferring vaccination equals treatment.

My bad.

Overuse or incorrect use of antibiotics is a very real problem and is why many bacteria are no longer resistant to antibiotics.

Antibiotics are not used to treat the flu, as the flu is a virus and antibiotics only work on bacterial infections.

The treatments used for flu should be antiviral treatments of which the most well known is Tamiflu. There are three others, but I can't remember the names.

To be effective, they must be taken as you stated, within 12-24 hours of the symptoms. I am not sure if taking antivirals at inappropriate times has the same negative effect as that of taking antibiotics inappropriately. A cursory Google search found numerous warnings about antibiotics, but none that I could find on antivirals.

JK

[Elorrum]

tamiflu and relenza are two antivirals that are used to treat the flu, best taken within the first 48 hours of the illness, but they are given to some people later. Their effect is to shorten duration and reduce the severity of symptoms. I haven't read anything that suggests people get desensitized to their effects as what I've read on the CDC website is that they are for people who are very ill (hospitalized) or subject to life threatening complications. Neither circumstance that would lead to frequent use I'd hope. I was give a prescription by my doctor when I was taking care of my father during his chemo and radiation, in case I did get the flu, with instructions to get the hell away from my Dad, and to take tamiflu so I could get home quicker. I didn't get the flu that year, so I don't have any experience with it. I've gotten the flu shot several times with no adverse affects. I didn't get vaccinated because I myself am more succeptible to flu symptoms, or am scared of being ill, but because I was a caregiver, and have elderly relatives I visit frequently. I work in an environment that is pretty germy on the main. I don't have a strong opinion about it, am not acting through any sense of just conviction. I don't see it as a decision with tremendous weight. If they've anticipated the right strain, I think it's effective, and I like the odds. I just had the seasonal version at work on Friday, mainly because I will be spending a lot of time with my mother this year and she's not doing so well. H1N1 isn't being offered at work yet, and as far as I know it's still scarce. I would consider getting it if it were readily available.

[Elderberry]

sometimes, it helps to look at the money/power trail...and, who's promoting it............and, therefore, who profits........

big profit in all that vaccine..........big power in "saving" us and, "looking out for our best interests"..........

just sayin'............

Actually, with the flu vaccine there really is no money trail to follow. The truth is that this vaccine is still made the old-fashioned way, inside chicken eggs. There is so little profit in making the flu vaccine these days that all but two companies stopped making it. Now there are a total of four companies in the U.S. (all foreign owned) that are only making the vaccine because the government is subsidizing them.

So if you actually followed the money trail...it would lead to all the other miricle drugs, like viagra, that make drug manufacturers tons of money and can be manufactured very easily and cheaply, and there would be no flu vaccine.

This is part of the reason that there are always shortages each year and why there were so many under-estimates as to when and how much vaccine would be available.

JK

[oneeyeddick]

How poetic, eggs are used to take care of the bacon fever.

[Elderberry]

Geez fishy, and I thought I had strong feelings about vaccinations! It's those kinds of memories that people today need to be brought face to face with to actually realize how important vaccinations are and how lucky we are to live in a time when getting vaccinated can help protect us from so many diseases--if we don't let ignorance stand in the way.

JK