Your Role Model

All things outside of Burning Man.
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BAS
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Post by BAS » Sat May 15, 2004 5:59 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
BAS wrote:"BRR"? Maybe it is because I just got up, but I am failing to figure this abbrv. out....
What's a "BAS"?
My dad and my initials. (I wasn't feeling very creative when asked for a handle on these boards. I suppose I could have used "Blupe", which is what I use on EZ Boards.... :roll: )
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
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BAS
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Re: Hey!.... My shoes don't match....

Post by BAS » Sat May 15, 2004 6:00 pm

Last Real Burner wrote:BRR= Black Rock Rick noun

Considered a rock hugging sock puppet for Allanon3 or whatever his name is.
Okay. I hadn't heard it before. Thanks!

:)
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Do things that have never been done."
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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Sat May 15, 2004 6:35 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:It's a matter of perspective; I think an undereducated person who has kids he can't afford and works and works at a crappy job is a bad role model. I wouldn't want to live like that. Others will admire his dedication to his family.
Everyone has their own ideas about who they think sets an example they'd like to follow.
You are quite a guy... Cap'n
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Captain Goddammit
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Post by Captain Goddammit » Sat May 15, 2004 7:05 pm

Well I'll take that as a compliment... unless it's a slam, in which case I probably earned it...
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theCryptofishist
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duh duh duh duh

Post by theCryptofishist » Mon May 17, 2004 11:56 am

Maia wrote:The last real burner still hasn't figured out that both my and BRR's ability to spell, remove us from any possibility of being Allanon... Also consider that Allanon admits to once owning a Dodge Neon. Neither myself or the mysterious Black Rock Ric would drive a little weenie car..
Even rexanon (king of the nobodies) has admitted that he knows how to use a spellchecker--although I would consider the no-spell-check to be the sock out of laziness. And since the Grinch is difinately a recreational liar with an over-macho imagination this doesn't hold water. Not that I think, or have ever thought, that the Grinch and subsidiaries are rexanon, but the reasons I have are different. And as I keep saying, there's nothing "mysterious" about misanthropy.

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Mon May 17, 2004 12:34 pm

After thinking about it for a little bit, I have to say that repeated emphasising the difference in spelling is a desparate attempt on the Grinch's (and his family's) part to distract us and perhaps himself from the fact that he is the functional equivalent to rexanon, a man who beat him to the punch and for whom he has no respect. Basically, all either of them has offered is: Get off the playa so I can have it. It must irk the Grinch no end that his natural ally (not that he's capable of maintaining an alliance) in this matter is a wimpy city boy who may not be able to change his own tire. I don't care. Both make posts short on substance and long on self-aggrandizement. Niether is willing to work with burners or the LLC. And both are living in fantasy worlds year round, instead of for a single week.

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Ranger Genius
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Post by Ranger Genius » Mon May 17, 2004 12:38 pm

Another great band name: Misanthropy.

Or better yet: The Misanthropic Princible
“We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a presumption that once our eyes watered.”

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Rob the Wop
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Re:Role model

Post by Rob the Wop » Mon May 17, 2004 2:01 pm

role model noun a person looked to by others as an example to be imitated
from www.askoxford.com

role model - someone worthy of imitation; "every child needs a role model"
from www.thefreedictionary.com


A role model does not necessarily mean someone that you HAVE modeled your life after. I also seriously doubt that Di Vinci or Socrates can be considered a celebrity anymore. Gandhi was, but he would not like that label at all.

So why exactly would do I feel that the above are worthy of modeling my life after?

Socrates- He refused to believe in 'common knowledge'. He steadfastly challenged all knowledge presented to him, even to the point of being sentenced to death by an Athens jury. He pursued truth (unlike the Truth pursued by religious zealots) using reasoning and critical analysis of those facts presented to him. He spent his later years teaching the young educated to question knowledge and use their own minds to decide where truth lay. What better role model in the search of truth?

Di Vinci- I have always believed that the second you stop learning, you start dying. Studies have found that your mind will retain memories and process cognitive thought better if constantly challenged, very similar to continued exercise of the body allows for longer life. I further believe that you need to exercise both sides of your mind. While you strain against new technical knowledge, you should also force your imagination to create. Di Vinci was the proto-type Renaissance Man. He was a painter, sculptor, architect, engineer, and scientist. Not only that, but he EXCELLED in most things he attempted. His scientific imaginings were far ahead of his time and his artistry is still used as an example of how to draw what you see accurately. What better role model for the development of the human mind?

Gandhi- Many talk of the bravery of warriors. But would you stare in the face of a man, knowing that he will beat you severely, possibly until death, and/or then throw you in a prison of filth for the rest of your life? Would you do this to simply make a point, in an effort to help prevent abuse and tyranny? Would you continue to do this, no matter how many times you are beaten or imprisoned? Would you turn down offers of wealth and power to sleep in a slum until those around you are given basic human rights? When Gandhi all but ruled India- when millions would utter his name in reverence and follow his orders unto death- he still remained the humble, frail man that slept in the dirt, wore beggars garb, and would spend time every day to spin his own yarn. What better role model for humility, willpower, and bravery?

I can never hope to achieve the heights of these great men, but I can remember their achievements and use that to strive for being a better person.
[b]The other, other white meat.[/b]

Maia
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crypto

Post by Maia » Wed May 19, 2004 4:01 pm

If the issue were only the playa Ric and I could live with that. Crypto, after reading your posts it is so hard to think of you as a logical creature. Your inability to understand why people would not like 30,000 urbanites descending on an isolated rural area, bring morals that are reprehensible to most out here shows an astonishing insensitivity, but then that insensitivity extends throughout the organisation.

A temporary population density equal to Detroit comprised primarily of those with morals antithetical to the inhabitants of Northern Washoe, all of Pershing and most of Humboldt counties. It should not be difficult to understand the abhorence with which burning man attendees have brought upon themselves.

No matter how you cloak it, nudity, open sexuality, homosexuality, and drug use is part and parcel of burning man. We know this, you know this, we find it appallingly out of place in rural Nevada.

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Alpha
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Re: crypto

Post by Alpha » Wed May 19, 2004 4:16 pm

Maia wrote:No matter how you cloak it, nudity, open sexuality, homosexuality, and drug use is part and parcel of burning man. We know this, you know this, we find it appallingly out of place in rural Nevada.
None of these things are done in Gerlach, Empire, Sparks, etc. (unless you count being homosexual appalling, in which case shame on you). The residents of rural Nevada have a right to judge the actions of Burning Man participants while we are in their communities; once we've disappeared into the desert, what should you care?

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Captain Goddammit
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Re: crypto

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed May 19, 2004 11:38 pm

Maia wrote: No matter how you cloak it, nudity, open sexuality, homosexuality, and drug use is part and parcel of burning man. We know this, you know this, we find it appallingly out of place in rural Nevada.
OOOHHHHhhh!!! So THAT'S what your issue is! I was wondering... it didn't make sense before.
Why worry? If you don't like it, don't go! It all happens way out of town, away from everyone, you wouldn't see anything if you weren't trying to.
Even if you could move it, you can't stop it.
I'm assuming you have some religious basis for your objections. If that's true, I'll remind you that this is the U.S.A., where imposing your religious beliefs on others is un-American, illegal, and wrong.
I've always said religion causes most of the trouble in the world, here's exhibit "A", folks.
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Rob the Wop
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Re: crypto

Post by Rob the Wop » Thu May 20, 2004 12:01 am

Maia wrote: nudity, open sexuality, homosexuality, and drug use is part and parcel of burning man. We know this, you know this, we find it appallingly out of place in rural Nevada.
Wow. Gerlach sure is different than Beatty, Carson City, or Pahrump. Unless brothels and meth labs don't happen round your area. Funny that, seeing as how brothels fit into the 'old West' like bread and butter.

That leaves nudity, which happens when you step outside in your yard in rural desert communities- you just don't do it when neighbors can see you. Love the 20's bathing outfits at the hot springs too.

Ok. Then that leaves homos.
And you forgot negros and Mexicans.

Aaahhhh. Now THESE are the rural desert communities that I remember spending most my teenage life trying to escape from.
[b]The other, other white meat.[/b]

Maia
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assumptions

Post by Maia » Thu May 20, 2004 6:53 am

you are making assumptions again, The concerns I mentioned are concerns of the extremely conservative inhabitants of rural Nevada. Whether they are our concerns or not is irrelevant.

And that is not "our concern" Our concern is far broader, the data to deal with that is currently being assembled for dissemination to the proper authorities..

You don't "disappear" into the desert, the burning man attendees impact the area for sometime before and after the event. Just try to get a table at Bruno's before during and after the party

An analogy that you may understand is hard to come up with. The following is a loose analogy. A large number of people representing a culture with which you have few if any shared values, in fact antithetical values, a number of people much larger, infact 10 times the population of your community, descend upon your community for a period of time each year. It is hard to figure what culture would upset you. Perhaps rabid Nazi homophobes, Black shirts, Jack boots and machine pistols, with a little mistachioed guy ranting and raving about how he is going to "take care of you".

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Alpha

Post by Maia » Thu May 20, 2004 7:02 am

Alpha,, your comment about shame on me for possible views on homesexuality.
Homosexuality is rather like birthing puppies, which I spent yesterday doing.. Much better to think about in the abstract than up close and personal, the little mucous covered lumps popping out, momma licking them clean and eating the after birth has a certain grossness to it..

The girls coming home from school on their dirt bikes across the playa got to see the cleaned up, dry, cute puppies.

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Post by Silver » Thu May 20, 2004 7:38 am

Hmmm, why would you find nudity and whatnot out of place in rural Nevada? After all, Ric writes of your initial meeting:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... ght=#42299

Actually, I did not believe it then and I do not believe it now. You, or you all (the ah, Maia personality seems quite a bit more stable than the Ric personality), just hunt around and make stuff up to get a rise out of the people here. There have been overtones of religion and general narrowmindedness (is that a word?) in previous posts so there may actually be a basic theme at work here. On the up side you and the rural types that you claim to represent obviously don't mind what we do as long as we do it elsewhere. I personally don't understand the difference myself and as Rob pointed out it does not seem that the rest of rural Nevada agrees with you. I had a most amusing time about 6 years ago explaining to my mother, with my 11 year old in the car, what those groups of trailers were doing right off the road out in the middle of nowhere.

While I believe that you make this stuff up just to draw attention to yourself, I will respond this way: I am quite sure that you have activities, beliefs and entertainment that I would find distasteful; however, I see no reason that you should not be able to do it next door as long as you keep the fence high enough and the noise down. Being a couple of miles out on the Playa, is a high enough fence and keeps the noise down, so what do you care what the hell we do.
My grandfather tried to raise me as a Southern gentleman, that means that I can be a real SOB some of the time.

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Alpha
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Re: Alpha

Post by Alpha » Thu May 20, 2004 8:02 am

So are you apalled at the nudity, sexuality and drugs or are you apalled that you can't get a table at Bruno's? Bruno doesn't seem to mind. And for what it's worth, anyone who lives anywhere worth living faces the same problem sooner or later; try dining in Pasadena during the Rose Bowl.
Maia wrote:Homosexuality is rather like birthing puppies, which I spent yesterday doing.. Much better to think about in the abstract than up close and personal
You're driving right at my point. The activities of BM happen way out in the desert where you don't have to look at or listen to it. What I said was that if you are offended merely by a person's sexual orientation then you should be ashamed of your closed-mindedness. No one's asking you to come watch Big Gay Al's AssFest. Speaking of fun camp ideas, I think I visited this camp last year:
rabid Nazi homophobes, Black shirts, Jack boots and machine pistols, with a little mistachioed guy ranting and raving about how he is going to "take care of you".
Finally, I recognize the separation you hinted at between your own views and those of the conservatives in your community. But since you've chosen to be their voice on our message board, I'll respond to you the way that I would respond to them.

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ddd

Post by Maia » Thu May 20, 2004 8:14 am

The activities are not limited to "out in the desert". Last year, on Monday, I stopped at Bruno's there was a young ladie giving a blow job to a guy between two cars on the side street alongside Bruno's...

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Thu May 20, 2004 8:56 am

After 202 posts by 4 different names. . . . .























. . .we FINALLY have an actual real ligetimate complaint of burner behavior with merit! Not exactly a "tight pattern" more shotgun.

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Alpha
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Post by Alpha » Thu May 20, 2004 9:01 am

theCryptofishist wrote:we FINALLY have an actual real legitimate complaint of burner behavior with merit!
Agreed. Maia, you have every right to condemn that behavior but don't you think it's rather unfair to condemn 30,000 people based on the actions of two?

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dkdk

Post by Maia » Thu May 20, 2004 9:19 am

I don't condemn the actions, I condemn the presence.

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Post by Alpha » Thu May 20, 2004 9:31 am

Which brings us right back to where we started, that you are as closed-minded and xenophobic as your conservative neighbors. I'm done with you.

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Post by samtzu » Thu May 20, 2004 9:33 am

It's that ol' "We've-got-ours-now-lock-the-door" attitude. It's the same thing as the 'Illegal' immigrant issue. What the hell is 'illegal'? I have some Native American friends that have thoughts on who is illegal and who isn't.

It also appears that they have the exclusive right to the desert 52 weeks out of the year, and they can run tourists up through there and make money off of it, but a bunch of 'ferrinurs' from the city shouldn't be allowed that same right for a few weeks. It's an invasion!

"Mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine!" The battle cry of Western Civilization. "My community! Now get out!!" Where did you come from?

And were do you think these wars that end in 'ethnic cleansing' come from? They come from this... "You are different, you must be eliminated!" Sigh.

Sam
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by Ranger Genius » Thu May 20, 2004 9:41 am

I stopped at Bruno's there was a young ladie giving a blow job to a guy between two cars on the side street alongside Bruno's...
...and I stood there watching, appalled, for half an hour!
“We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a presumption that once our eyes watered.”

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Re: ddd

Post by Rob the Wop » Thu May 20, 2004 10:05 am

Maia wrote:The activities are not limited to "out in the desert". Last year, on Monday, I stopped at Bruno's there was a young ladie giving a blow job to a guy between two cars on the side street alongside Bruno's...
Now you're making assumptions. Are you positive it was a young lady? There are a lot of guys wearing dresses out there...
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Sam Tzu

Post by Maia » Thu May 20, 2004 11:49 am

Sam tzu"It also appears that they have the exclusive right to the desert 52 weeks out of the year, and they can run tourists up through there and make money off of it, but a bunch of 'ferrinurs' from the city shouldn't be allowed that same right for a few weeks. It's an invasion! " The Black Rock area gets about 35,000 visitors per year, 30,000 of those are burning man attendees, the balance of 5,000 is a five fold increase over the past 10 years due to publicity generated by burning man..

Not that you would have a freaking clue, but it is the isolation that gave the place its charm.. Burning man and the ensueing publicity has wrecked that..

I know you all have your justifications,, PT Barnum was right.

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Ranger Genius
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Post by Ranger Genius » Thu May 20, 2004 12:09 pm

Frankly, Maia, I don't give a damn. The reasons you are attracted to the Black Rock Desert measure about a 0.0 on my Give-a-shit scale. The fact remains that it is a National Forest, which means everyone's tax dollars pay for its upkeep (not to mention the monstrous fees paidby the Org for the actual event each year). Every american is entitled to use this land, not just the socially retarded hermits who live nearby. We are as entitled to its use and to the freedom it allows just as much as you, and living in the area doesn't give you any special privileges. If the "invasion" of 30,000 or so "urbanites," (I live in a town with a population of under 5,000. How urban does that make me?) pisses you off so much, maybe you should move. We're going to keep on coming and challenging your miniscule world-view, so you'd better find a new place to hide.
“We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a presumption that once our eyes watered.”

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Post by theCryptofishist » Thu May 20, 2004 12:22 pm

Yeah, what Genuis said. (Except the National Forest stuff--it's BLM and Interior land, not Dept of Ag/National Forest--but you need a score card to tell the players. . .)

And one thing else. Maia is (typical of the Grinch family) only blaming the most visible target. There has been a general trend over the past decade or two of increase use of public land all over the country. If it weren't BM it would be some other pressure. It's connected to the same things that make "Urban Wildfires" a thing of the present and future and not of the past. People like nature and want to spend time there. And THAT'S a 200year trend, started by Lord Byron, amoung others. And the Grinch is a much a part of that trend as we are. Alaska, Alaska, Alaska. Someplace 100 miles away from the nearest paved road. Then you're safe.

Maybe the Grinch will lose it and start bombing ad agencies that put together those macho off road vehicle car ads. Or he could kill his buddy Krakauer. Outside Magazine contributes to this trend to.

Or he could reference Knut and grow up already.

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duh

Post by Maia » Thu May 20, 2004 1:09 pm

Ranger not Genius,,,BLM land not National Forest,, stick with your cats and concrete.

"Someplace 100 miles away from the nearest paved road. Then you're safe".

Doubt it,,. At 60 miles from asphalt, we can see the dust column rising above bm. At 60 miles from asphalt we still get you urban yo yo's wandering through, asking for gas, water or a tow.. We had to put a fence down by the county road just to keep you out.

Sure, increasing demands on public land will increase visitor use, but bm took a sledge hammer to the problem, entirely unintentional, but nevertheless. I think once bm moves back to California, the visitor use growth rate into the Black Rock area will slow considerably. I think in the near future you will be attending bm on private land in California. BM, a victim of its own abuse.

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Post by Ranger Genius » Thu May 20, 2004 1:09 pm

I think I read "National Conservation Area" and got confused. Not to be confused with a "National Conservation Aria." Those damn activist operas.
“We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a presumption that once our eyes watered.”

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Re: Sam Tzu

Post by samtzu » Thu May 20, 2004 1:10 pm

Maia wrote:Not that you would have a freaking clue, but it is the isolation that gave the place its charm.. Burning man and the ensueing publicity has wrecked that..

I know you all have your justifications,, PT Barnum was right.
Of course I wouldn't have a freakin' clue, since, by definition, I am an urbanite (although I was raised in Tuolumne County, the west side of the Sierra, and have been running the woods just north of Yosemite since I was five) and "other". How could I possibly understand? All I know is concrete and steel.

Exclusion... you are not 'me' therefore you don't understand... is a pitiful defense.

Actually, I'm not you... and I'm tickled pink!
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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