Fuck, things really are a mess at Ft. Hood - 10 suicides a month!!!
http://www.alternet.org/world/143837/10 ... the_brink/
This war needs to be stopped. These are young people with so much to live for and they'd rather kill themselves than go to Iraq.
Fuck!
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Deb Prothero
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ygmir
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that's fucking sad.........Deb Prothero wrote:Fuck, things really are a mess at Ft. Hood - 10 suicides a month!!!
http://www.alternet.org/world/143837/10 ... the_brink/
This war needs to be stopped. These are young people with so much to live for and they'd rather kill themselves than go to Iraq.
it may beg a question, without disrespect to those, but,
"What the fuck do you expect when you join the Army, but, to go to war?"
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Deb Prothero
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ygmir
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yes, it is fucking sad........
and, it could be, that, that's the situation.......It seems, they can refuse to go.....fucking heard of that happening before........maybe time in the brig, maybe dishonorable discharge, but, seems there are alternatives.......
It just seems, you hear of folks joining the military, and then, freaking when they have to go to fucking war.....well, really, WTF did they expect?
It can't be a surprise.
and, it could be, that, that's the situation.......It seems, they can refuse to go.....fucking heard of that happening before........maybe time in the brig, maybe dishonorable discharge, but, seems there are alternatives.......
It just seems, you hear of folks joining the military, and then, freaking when they have to go to fucking war.....well, really, WTF did they expect?
It can't be a surprise.
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theCryptofishist
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I don't fucking know, Ygmir. I do know that in the 80s as the government grants for collage dried up and we were having those cute designer wars and there wasn't a lot of support for working class and lower middle class to get an education and they were sort of marketing the army as the way to fund your collage and learn cool stuff on computers...
That could have something to do with it.
and
well
I've heard
that is to say
well, um, I kinda hate to say it
Sometimes those fucking recruiters fucking lie through their fucking teeth!!!!
That could have something to do with it.
and
well
I've heard
that is to say
well, um, I kinda hate to say it
Sometimes those fucking recruiters fucking lie through their fucking teeth!!!!
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
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Deb Prothero
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Whadda ya mean SOMETIMES??? I've never seen a recruiter yet that told the truth. They are recruiting kids into the National Guard and telling them they won't have to go to Iraq.
I'm housing one fella up here now that was forced to go three times. Finally when they said he was going again, he came to Canada. And I will do everything in my power to make sure he isn't prosecuted for it.
I'm housing one fella up here now that was forced to go three times. Finally when they said he was going again, he came to Canada. And I will do everything in my power to make sure he isn't prosecuted for it.
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ygmir
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yeah, I agree that folks are mis-led at times, perhaps even quite often....no doubt........theCryptofishist wrote:I don't fucking know, Ygmir. I do know that in the 80s as the government grants for collage dried up and we were having those cute designer wars and there wasn't a lot of support for working class and lower middle class to get an education and they were sort of marketing the army as the way to fund your collage and learn cool stuff on computers...
That could have something to do with it.
and
well
I've heard
that is to say
well, um, I kinda hate to say it
Sometimes those fucking recruiters fucking lie through their fucking teeth!!!!
all I'm sayin' is that, "it's the military"........and, well, they are there to kill people and break things.........
Like it or not, that is what they train to do.......
If a person is so naive as to think that can never happen....well, dang.
Deb:
I think that's an exaggeration..........to say recruiters never tell the truth.......seems disingenuous to me......
Again, I don't say it doesn't happen, and have no inkling as to how often it does.....but, still........folks are at some point responsible for do diligence on things...........especially when it is their own life.
If your friend came to Canada, well, we all have our limits......nothing wrong with that..........
But, I can't imagine there is no mechanism for just saying "no, I won't go back".....they're not going to duct tape a person to a tank and send them..........it seems it's just a matter or choices.........and dealing with the outcome and ramifications of same.
*edit, 'cause, I got so caught up, I forgot my fuck*
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theCryptofishist
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Apparently our fucking gunman asked to get out. Didn't work. Picked up a gun. It's what they trained him to do.
Of course it's naive to think that you won't have to serve in war, but we are talking about teen age boys (for the most part, when they sign up) and they can't think yet. Okay, that's a little fucking harsh, but more impulsive than thoughtful, drawn to shiny computers and helicopters and other "boy toys" that they used to show in those fucking commercials. They are fucking taken advantage of. It's a fucking bait and switch. They should fucking know better, but it's a fucking oversimplification to put the blame only on them. The army has a tradition of recruitment, a fiendish fucking brain washing training technique, is bigger, more cunning, and holds all the aces. Kings, queens and fucking jack, too.
I know that many people on this board have served at one time or another, and who say good things about that. But maybe all that fucking means is that in something as large as the (american) armed forces, over the past 30 years--or longer, in the case of those who have parents and so on preceding them, that there are times and places where you can fucking land and not end up with a head filled with fucking nightmares and a body twisted beyond fucking recognition.
Of course it's naive to think that you won't have to serve in war, but we are talking about teen age boys (for the most part, when they sign up) and they can't think yet. Okay, that's a little fucking harsh, but more impulsive than thoughtful, drawn to shiny computers and helicopters and other "boy toys" that they used to show in those fucking commercials. They are fucking taken advantage of. It's a fucking bait and switch. They should fucking know better, but it's a fucking oversimplification to put the blame only on them. The army has a tradition of recruitment, a fiendish fucking brain washing training technique, is bigger, more cunning, and holds all the aces. Kings, queens and fucking jack, too.
I know that many people on this board have served at one time or another, and who say good things about that. But maybe all that fucking means is that in something as large as the (american) armed forces, over the past 30 years--or longer, in the case of those who have parents and so on preceding them, that there are times and places where you can fucking land and not end up with a head filled with fucking nightmares and a body twisted beyond fucking recognition.
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
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Deb Prothero
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Ygmir, this war sucks. There's no reason for it and it is awful in Iraq. You can't believe the stories I've heard.
Okay this kid is not living in my house but I'm paying for his housing and his legal bills. I'm part of a network of Canadians across the country called the War Resistors Support Network. There are over 200 of your soldiers up here and we're keeping them safe for the time being.
They are not allowed to say no. And they are physically put on planes and sent back there. Some of them have tried the conscientious objector route and that has failed. Every legitimate route they tried has failed so they crossed the border with full knowledge they could never return. Poor souls have given up all their family connections and everything they had in America. But at least they are not suicide victims like the ones in Ft. Hood.
Okay this kid is not living in my house but I'm paying for his housing and his legal bills. I'm part of a network of Canadians across the country called the War Resistors Support Network. There are over 200 of your soldiers up here and we're keeping them safe for the time being.
They are not allowed to say no. And they are physically put on planes and sent back there. Some of them have tried the conscientious objector route and that has failed. Every legitimate route they tried has failed so they crossed the border with full knowledge they could never return. Poor souls have given up all their family connections and everything they had in America. But at least they are not suicide victims like the ones in Ft. Hood.
They are not allowed to say no.
They can get out when there time is up, but there is usually a clause stating they can be called back at anytime within X amount of years.
If there is a paperwork snafu, which there often is, they have to show up and serve and deal with the issue on the side.
(does snafu count as my fuck?)
They can get out when there time is up, but there is usually a clause stating they can be called back at anytime within X amount of years.
If there is a paperwork snafu, which there often is, they have to show up and serve and deal with the issue on the side.
(does snafu count as my fuck?)
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ygmir
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well, fuck........
what I'm trying to say, is, physically, they can't make them walk and stuff......
If someone refuses, they refuse to participate.
sure, they can carry them onto a plane.
sure, unload them.
but, they can't physically make them walk, drive, carry a weapon, whatever.
at a point, they say "I'm not fucking doin' it" and, just sit down.
at that point, they'll probably get carried to incarceration.
and or, get kicked out.....but, well, that option exists.......
saying the "have" to, well, is not totally accurate, IMHO.......
It just depends on the lengths a person is willing to go, to not participate.
Is time in the brig, equal to a life in Canada? well......I can't answer that for anyone, but, they can answer for themselves......
The "opt out" option, seems, at times, valid.
the other side, is, if they join, and, get trained, at some fair expense, they should have to follow through with their commitment....and, if it ends up they can't/won't, well, there are consequences to all our actions.
With that in mind, though, it should be made very fucking clear what you're signing up for, what is expected, and, what options are available.
I have great empathy for anyone who says, they "can't" go to war.....as long as it really is against all they are........but, then, don't join the military........
what I'm trying to say, is, physically, they can't make them walk and stuff......
If someone refuses, they refuse to participate.
sure, they can carry them onto a plane.
sure, unload them.
but, they can't physically make them walk, drive, carry a weapon, whatever.
at a point, they say "I'm not fucking doin' it" and, just sit down.
at that point, they'll probably get carried to incarceration.
and or, get kicked out.....but, well, that option exists.......
saying the "have" to, well, is not totally accurate, IMHO.......
It just depends on the lengths a person is willing to go, to not participate.
Is time in the brig, equal to a life in Canada? well......I can't answer that for anyone, but, they can answer for themselves......
The "opt out" option, seems, at times, valid.
the other side, is, if they join, and, get trained, at some fair expense, they should have to follow through with their commitment....and, if it ends up they can't/won't, well, there are consequences to all our actions.
With that in mind, though, it should be made very fucking clear what you're signing up for, what is expected, and, what options are available.
I have great empathy for anyone who says, they "can't" go to war.....as long as it really is against all they are........but, then, don't join the military........
YGMIR
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I am probably one of the biggest scardy cats of the fucking armed forces. I hate the wars, its like one bully trying to beat his opinion into everyone.
Think like me or I'll clobber you!
But as much as I hate hate hate it, when Burnerbaby wanted to go to the Army recruitment office, I had to be supportive, not of the jack fucked up army, but of her wishes.
(I will tell you I was fighting back tears, as I am now, writing this )
I dont want my baby dying in some fucked up political war we have no business being in! I dont understand it, no matter how many ways, it is explained to me, it still isnt right. NOT FUCKING RIGHT!
It steals away the children of all the lands to fight the fight of usually 2 men that could just as easily duke it out in a locked office.
But Nooooooooooooooo, they dont wanna get hurt, so they will send in the children, yours, mine and theirs, and when one child gets killed they go and kill the others in retaliation.
Oh yeah, what again are we fighting for, oh yeah, you dont agree with my opinion.
And why is it that every time in grammar school you were told to turn the other cheek, that fighting back is no more right then the first person to throw a punch.That if you fought back, you were WRONG.
yes, I think there is a higher intelligent race out there in the universe, and as close as they have come to popping by and saying hello, what they probably saw, shook them to their very core. "No we dont want to say hi to that uncivilized planet", and sure as shit, the ones that got close enough to look at us, what do we do....shoot them outa the sky, and kill them, then turn around deny it to even our own people!
Whatever.This world of political bullshit is as fucked as it can get. It aint never coming back to a place of reality and peace.
All we have is each other gang. Love one another, that's all WE have left.
Oh and Fuck You USA and your idea of promising all these kida a free education and medical insurance for your services.....
Thats all a load of crap too!!!
How many of our veterans do we see on the side of the road with no legs, begging for $, so they can buy booze and drugs to end both the physical and MENTAL pain that terrorizes they're every waking moment. Yeah armed services, what a way to pay back your sons and daughters.
Think like me or I'll clobber you!
But as much as I hate hate hate it, when Burnerbaby wanted to go to the Army recruitment office, I had to be supportive, not of the jack fucked up army, but of her wishes.
(I will tell you I was fighting back tears, as I am now, writing this )
I dont want my baby dying in some fucked up political war we have no business being in! I dont understand it, no matter how many ways, it is explained to me, it still isnt right. NOT FUCKING RIGHT!
It steals away the children of all the lands to fight the fight of usually 2 men that could just as easily duke it out in a locked office.
But Nooooooooooooooo, they dont wanna get hurt, so they will send in the children, yours, mine and theirs, and when one child gets killed they go and kill the others in retaliation.
Oh yeah, what again are we fighting for, oh yeah, you dont agree with my opinion.
And why is it that every time in grammar school you were told to turn the other cheek, that fighting back is no more right then the first person to throw a punch.That if you fought back, you were WRONG.
yes, I think there is a higher intelligent race out there in the universe, and as close as they have come to popping by and saying hello, what they probably saw, shook them to their very core. "No we dont want to say hi to that uncivilized planet", and sure as shit, the ones that got close enough to look at us, what do we do....shoot them outa the sky, and kill them, then turn around deny it to even our own people!
Whatever.This world of political bullshit is as fucked as it can get. It aint never coming back to a place of reality and peace.
All we have is each other gang. Love one another, that's all WE have left.
Oh and Fuck You USA and your idea of promising all these kida a free education and medical insurance for your services.....
Thats all a load of crap too!!!
How many of our veterans do we see on the side of the road with no legs, begging for $, so they can buy booze and drugs to end both the physical and MENTAL pain that terrorizes they're every waking moment. Yeah armed services, what a way to pay back your sons and daughters.
Names pinemom, but my friends call me "Piney".
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unjonharley
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littleflower
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Deb Prothero
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This war and most wars are about power and money. This one is specifically about oil and control of it. As is the one in Afghanistan too now. Those soldiers are guarding and making safe a fucking oil pipeline in Southern Afghanistan. That's what we're all fighting about so George Bush and his pals can get rich in their retirement off the oil revenue.
And that's part of why Caleb is dead now too. No one would buy his newspaper articles when he was telling the truth instead of spewing the government line. He was so upset that he couldn't make a living selling the real story when he was in Afghanistan.
Gosh, pinemom, I don't know what to say about BurnerBaby. Shit. I met that girl for 5 minutes at your house and she made a massive impression on me. I was so proud of her for having led that protest that day. Remember that? She was curled up in a ball on the couch trying to recover from the bastards who challenged her on her opinion. I figured she was going to set the world on fire.
If they haven't got her completely within their grimy little paws, do her a favour and ask her to go with you to a VA hospital to volunteer for a day. That might affect her.
I'm hurting for you today, it's just not right that she should waste her incredible talents on the armed services. But I also understand your role as a mother to support her choices. What a mixed up world we live in.
And that's part of why Caleb is dead now too. No one would buy his newspaper articles when he was telling the truth instead of spewing the government line. He was so upset that he couldn't make a living selling the real story when he was in Afghanistan.
Gosh, pinemom, I don't know what to say about BurnerBaby. Shit. I met that girl for 5 minutes at your house and she made a massive impression on me. I was so proud of her for having led that protest that day. Remember that? She was curled up in a ball on the couch trying to recover from the bastards who challenged her on her opinion. I figured she was going to set the world on fire.
If they haven't got her completely within their grimy little paws, do her a favour and ask her to go with you to a VA hospital to volunteer for a day. That might affect her.
I'm hurting for you today, it's just not right that she should waste her incredible talents on the armed services. But I also understand your role as a mother to support her choices. What a mixed up world we live in.
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lonestoner916
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It's true! I love to get ahold of the son of a bitch who talked me into joining up. He promised me I'd get to go to Italy. There was no Italy. Only Georgia. And fire ants. Lots of fire ants.theCryptofishist wrote:I don't fucking know, Ygmir. I do know that in the 80s as the government grants for collage dried up and we were having those cute designer wars and there wasn't a lot of support for working class and lower middle class to get an education and they were sort of marketing the army as the way to fund your collage and learn cool stuff on computers...
That could have something to do with it.
and
well
I've heard
that is to say
well, um, I kinda hate to say it
Sometimes those fucking recruiters fucking lie through their fucking teeth!!!!
[img]http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/Motha420Herb/stoner.gif[/img]
http://lonestonersblog.blogspot.com/
http://lonestonersblog.blogspot.com/
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AntiM
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I was a sailor and I had to go to fucking Georgia!
The war is fucked up, but I am glad to see support of the troops themselves. That's decent. Now if we could only get the government on board with financial and medical support. Going through the VA sucks; they move so slowly, nothing much happens. That said, they did pay for my college as voc rehab.
The trick for us has been MyLarry is a Navy retiree, did the full 20 years. That means the pension and Tricare and base privileges. Well worth the time he put in, and our frequent separations. I always was a bit uncomfortable about being a cog in the wheels of a killing machine. I never did serve during a war, so glad I never had to make the harder decisions. As for being recruited, my dad served 29 years, I had no delusions that it was glamorous or anything less than a pain in the ass. I was just looking for a paycheck, a roof and meals, and travel. I got what i wanted, and the navy did right by me for the most part. But I knew what I was asking for, and what I would give up in return.
Even when your time is up, they can keep you. It is called Stop-loss. And after you retire, there's a ten year span when you can be recalled. I breathed a huge sigh of relief when Larry's letter came in saying he was well and truly retired.
I'm on the Navy for Moms site, and I am constantly amazed that they start crying when they find out sailors go to the sandbox also. It is the military, that means war. Don't think it does not. Fucking touchy-feely women, proud of their kids and loving the Navy until harsh reality sets in. Then they start asking how to get their kids shore duty close to home. As if it fucking works that way.
Sorry for the fuckign ramble.
The war is fucked up, but I am glad to see support of the troops themselves. That's decent. Now if we could only get the government on board with financial and medical support. Going through the VA sucks; they move so slowly, nothing much happens. That said, they did pay for my college as voc rehab.
The trick for us has been MyLarry is a Navy retiree, did the full 20 years. That means the pension and Tricare and base privileges. Well worth the time he put in, and our frequent separations. I always was a bit uncomfortable about being a cog in the wheels of a killing machine. I never did serve during a war, so glad I never had to make the harder decisions. As for being recruited, my dad served 29 years, I had no delusions that it was glamorous or anything less than a pain in the ass. I was just looking for a paycheck, a roof and meals, and travel. I got what i wanted, and the navy did right by me for the most part. But I knew what I was asking for, and what I would give up in return.
Even when your time is up, they can keep you. It is called Stop-loss. And after you retire, there's a ten year span when you can be recalled. I breathed a huge sigh of relief when Larry's letter came in saying he was well and truly retired.
I'm on the Navy for Moms site, and I am constantly amazed that they start crying when they find out sailors go to the sandbox also. It is the military, that means war. Don't think it does not. Fucking touchy-feely women, proud of their kids and loving the Navy until harsh reality sets in. Then they start asking how to get their kids shore duty close to home. As if it fucking works that way.
Sorry for the fuckign ramble.
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littleflower
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fire ants ... burning ants .. ants in pants ...
fuck, my cousin is retired navy, his kids went into the air force and became specialized mechanics or something hoping to avoid combat ... it didn't work for them, either. the youngest loved growing up all over the world, and wanted to be career air force ... but war made him get out.
i don't think anyone really likes war .... well, a few, obviously ... whose lives are never at risk. fuck.
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theCryptofishist
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Fuck. I'm sorry to say that I think you're fucking wrong. I think their are some who do like war. I think it's in the fucking genome. The mix may change, I mean Fredrich der II Prussian army is different from the high tech army we have now and different from the fucking sort of warfare that went on among the plains indians and the bronze age irish. It's fucking hard to tell, but I think some get a thrill out of killing. Some fucking bond to their comrades in arms. It can have "the thrill of the hunt." There's drinking and singing and camping and 100s of other things sort of tucked into it. And then there are adrenaline junkies. I think war offers up intense experiences in a mix that's hard to replicate. And I htink some people thrive and enjoy it. Until they get killed or wounded. Maybe it's only a sliver, but I think they are there.
I fucking hope I'm wrong.
I fucking hope I'm wrong.
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
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ygmir
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fuck Fishy, as intelligent as you are, you must have known, as you're typing the above, you're fucking right.....
the world is full of all sorts of people, fucktards and not......
and, it takes them all.......there is a place for those folks.......at times, war is unavoidable (mostly as in defense of a homeland), and, it's those people, that, rush out to do battle.......
it's been that way before, it'll be that way again........
When the Vikings were fighting the fucking English, they didn't send flowers and herring............
and, the English didn't respond with hugs and Guiness.........
They sent the warriors..........
the world is full of all sorts of people, fucktards and not......
and, it takes them all.......there is a place for those folks.......at times, war is unavoidable (mostly as in defense of a homeland), and, it's those people, that, rush out to do battle.......
it's been that way before, it'll be that way again........
When the Vikings were fighting the fucking English, they didn't send flowers and herring............
and, the English didn't respond with hugs and Guiness.........
They sent the warriors..........
YGMIR
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theCryptofishist
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theCryptofishist
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Fuck! I fucking ment the fucking Irish were keeping the fucking guinnues for them-fucking-selves.
And fucking eplaya is fucking acting up again!
Fuck that hsit.
And fucking eplaya is fucking acting up again!
Fuck that hsit.
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
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magicmarty
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Fishy, Deb, Pinemom, you guys get it. The vets and those still in and being shipped off to Iraq and Afganistan are simply pawns and it is very sad indeed. A war that never need to happen in Iraq so that a few could issue sophmoric macho words and sound tough.
The troops do indeed deserve support and honor. And even knowing that they joined the military and the military is an organization designed to engage in battle. They deserve to have the battles be truly necessary and not fucking illegimate charades. They deserve better ... we deserve better
The troops do indeed deserve support and honor. And even knowing that they joined the military and the military is an organization designed to engage in battle. They deserve to have the battles be truly necessary and not fucking illegimate charades. They deserve better ... we deserve better
"Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties" - Erich Fromm
Stay firm but loose!
MagicMarty
Stay firm but loose!
MagicMarty
Fuck, so we talk about this...and what shows up on the local Reno news this morning...
Nevada has the top ranking amount of enlistee's of the nations, 5% , and we rank 48th on getting them the services they need when they return home.
They say that most states have 1 Service's Officer for every 5 veterans.
Nevada has only 1 for every 30 veterans.
What the fuck.
Nevada has the top ranking amount of enlistee's of the nations, 5% , and we rank 48th on getting them the services they need when they return home.
They say that most states have 1 Service's Officer for every 5 veterans.
Nevada has only 1 for every 30 veterans.
What the fuck.
Names pinemom, but my friends call me "Piney".