Community Poll: Floor Show or The Burning Man on Fire?

Buster Friendly · Postby **Buster Friendly** » Thu May 20, 2004 1:34 pm

The pre-show performance before The Burning Man goes up in flames gets longer each successive year. The vast majority of the audience of this show can no longer be said to be participating in the Burn, as they have been reduced to being mere spectators; a captive audience who sit there ...waiting... there early merely for the sake of a clear, up-front view of the Burning Man on fire.

This year's pre-show promises to be even longer, with at least a half hour alone devoted entirely to Fire Spinning. Has the Burning Man community every been asked if they wanted a pre-show that's even longer that than the burning of the Man itself, or have we all been told that this what we 'want' to see?

Here's your chance to participate in a community mandate on the subject:

stuart · Postby **stuart** » Thu May 20, 2004 3:41 pm

as far as I see it, the whole saturday show is the LLC's art project. Like other art projects on the playa, if ya don't like it, move along and make yer own.

morgbert · Postby **morgbert** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:13 am

I personally hate the pre-game show because it involves so much bleating of "down in front" and "I can't see" and so much passive reception of entertainment. However, I sure like Stuart's point. That is one of the best lessons I've learned from Burning Man... if you don't like it, do something different. Yaaaay, Stuart!

Zephryus · Postby **Zephryus** » Fri May 21, 2004 7:54 pm

Although I can see the merit in both sides of this debate, I voted for the floor show because I want to see it before casting judgement.

Bob · Postby **Bob** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:33 pm

I hate polls.

Once your event begins, I'm pretty much spent, except for the carping. All I want is beer and Black Sabbath at 120 db.

technopatra · Postby **technopatra** » Sat May 22, 2004 10:42 am

Well if you look at it from a specator's perspective, and consider it a "floor show", you may have a point. But if you look at it for what it really is - a gift of art - you might see something deeper.

To elaborate on Stuart's comment: It is not just the gifted art of the LLC - the Fire Conclave involves nearly a thousand fire performers from all over the country. It is the culmination of months of planning, training, and rehearsal.

It is given by the performers for many reasons - while some may just be looking for an audience, the rest are happy to give something back to the community that inspired them to take up fire art in the first place.

Most fire art knowledge is gifted, even outside the trash fence. Through their involvement with the Conclave, many of these performers have built strong local communities around their art, which is the higher goal of the Burning Man Project. Fire performers have taken home the DIY ethic and installed it in their communities perhaps more than folks in any other single artistic medium.

There are also many fire groups that predated the Burning Man involvement of their members. There has been a vast exchange of knowledge between these groups and the Project. We have an opportunity to support them with info about permits, venues, etc., and to provide some promotion by sharing their performance announcements with our community. They can then reach more people locally, or on tour or whatever.

When I watch the Fire Conclave (Which I do from a distance as I no longer dig the crowds, either) I don't just see pretty spinning fire, I see a flaming web of shared knowledge, support, and a tangible effort to make the world a more interesting place. But YMMV.

Buster Friendly wrote:The vast majority of the audience of this show can no longer be said to be participating in the Burn, as they have been reduced to being mere spectators

When have the vast majority of Burners actually done anything more than watch, laugh, yell and dance during the Burn? Being at the Burn is your participation in the Burn. As always. Unless you are actively on the Man pyro crew, a firefighter crew, the on-duty Rangers, supporting staff, or the Fire Conclave.

Buster Friendly wrote:Has the Burning Man community every been asked if they wanted a pre-show that's even longer that than the burning of the Man itself, or have we all been told that this what we 'want' to see?

Do you really think it is appropriate for an artist to ask the public what it "wants"?

p.s. I'm moving this to the "Nature of Burning Man" thread as it is really not about camp or art planning.[/quote]

Rob the Wop · Postby **Rob the Wop** » Sat May 22, 2004 11:59 am

A classic example of a skewed poll. I didn't like any of the answers due to the wording used. So I'll add my own entry for the poll.

I'm here to watch the man burn. If the producers of the man want to stage a performance to emphasis the ritual aspect and the hard work they put into the man, they should be allowed to do so. It is criminal and asinine to deliberately fuck up all the hard work hundreds put into the show and man simply because I'm an impatient asshole.

BAS · Postby **BAS** » Sat May 22, 2004 12:06 pm

I am in agreement with RtW-- the poll is skewed, and I don't like any of the answers! The reason I want to go to BM is so much to see the man burn, it is for the whole of BRC before the burn, with the man as the signal that the event is at an end for another year. If the people who built the man want to have a ceremony before hand, then so be it. It is a ritual more than a floor show, if my understanding is correct. Sort of like fireworks on the 4th of July, or a celebration to welcome in the new year.

etherialc. · Postby **etherialc.** » Sat May 22, 2004 12:15 pm

I dunno about the rest of you, but I remember really liking the so-called floor show. It seemed to build up on my anticipation and that fuzzy elation when we finally danced around the man. It felt like we were the little fire spirits that followed the drumming (dying heartbeat) and fire dancing(inevitable death of the man).
Whhooo...I'm getting goosebumps. Yeah-I liked the floor show.
Maybe I'm just easily amused...?

Buster Friendly · Postby **Buster Friendly** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:16 pm

We'll, it awfully nice for people to give their opinions and answers, (that's the reason the post was put up), but how about getting replies that are actually on the topic of the *Duration* of the show, rather than commenting on the merits of the show in general, or begging the original question?

And for those that don't like how the poll and it's introduction were written:
'if ya don't like it, move along and make yer own.' <wink>

Rob the Wop · Postby **Rob the Wop** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:29 pm

Because the gist of the poll is "agree with me that fucking up someone else's art is OK". Two out of the five poll questions indicate total asshole behavior. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone burning down your theme camp because it's 'in the way' or 'not fun enough', why advocate sabotage?

Buster Friendly · Postby **Buster Friendly** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:43 pm

Again , begging the question.

Bob · Postby **Bob** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:54 pm

Ishtar.......Ishtar.......Ishtar.......Ishtar.......

BAS · Postby **BAS** » Sat May 22, 2004 5:15 pm

Fine, then I will vote for an extended floor show!

Rob the Wop · Postby **Rob the Wop** » Sat May 22, 2004 5:41 pm

Buster Friendly wrote:We'll, it awfully nice for people to give their opinions and answers, (that's the reason the post was put up), but how about getting replies that are actually on the topic of the *Duration* of the show, rather than commenting on the merits of the show in general, or begging the original question?

And for those that don't like how the poll and it's introduction were written:
'if ya don't like it, move along and make yer own.' <wink>

OK then, the original question mentions a 1/2 hour duration. One of the poll questions mentions a 1/2 hour duration. Where is a poll question of expected/desired duration? None, no leeway on show length. Therefore your poll is NOT on *duration*, it is skewed towards whether it's OK to fuck up someone's art as a result of not liking the duration. In case THAT doesn't kick off your logic circuits, let's dissect your original question:

Would you like to sit through a half hour long pre-show fire performance, or would you rather not wait, and wouldn't at all mind seeing the Man getting ignited prematurely, even if it was through an act of sabotage?

A) Wait through 1/2 show
B) Not wait through 1/2 show- man burned in middle of show and it's acceptable if it was a deliberate act

Not much leeway in question, right? Let's move onto the poll questions. One accepts show. Two non-acceptance of show, without an act of deliberate destruction. Two non-acceptance of show, condoning acts of deliberate destruction.

Do you not understand logic? Is this too hard, or should I make some crayon drawings? Your poll is skewed towards some really fucked up behavior. I'm commenting on this assesment of your poll.

Buster Friendly · Postby **Buster Friendly** » Sat May 22, 2004 6:05 pm

yet again, Begging the orginail question. Sorry to use so many big words there, Rob.

Buster Friendly · Postby **Buster Friendly** » Sat May 22, 2004 6:06 pm

yet again, Begging the orginal question. Sorry to use so many big words there, Rob.

Silver 2 · Postby **Silver 2** » Sat May 22, 2004 7:08 pm

OK, let's see if this answers your question:

1. I like fire spinning and art cars blowing fire and the whole mess and if it lasts 30 minutes or 60 minutes I don't give a rats ass. I would however miss it if it were gone.

2. If some dipshit did fuck up the planned firing of the Man and they got caught by DPW et al and those folks decided to see how far into the Playa they could pound him I would demand a turn.

Bob · Postby **Bob** » Sat May 22, 2004 7:56 pm

Furrfu.... hoist upon your own poles.... can we burn the Man when the DPW "art" trucks implode?

Zulegoona · Postby **Zulegoona** » Sat May 22, 2004 11:49 pm

Ok, so I haven't been before, and my plans are to stay threw Monday or Tuesday, and it's not like most people are going to sleep as soon as the man burns so who cares of the rituals last even a few days. What's the rush, bring some food and drink talk, party, go away, come back, what's the big deal. It's not like your at a parade and you won't get a piece of candy from a clown in a little car if your not sitting on the curb. The man is a big thing you have to be able to see the flames from a long ways away.

It reminds me of going to fourth of July fireworks as a kid, at a drive in, stockcar track, or just in a park. I always found it annoying when people came in late, act disgusted the sun took so dam long to go down, and were in there cars already in the grid lock traffic jam before the finally was over.

Of course if the " floorshow" had Justin, and Janet, or snap drill teems it couldn't be over soon enough.

Bob · Postby **Bob** » Sun May 23, 2004 8:40 am

Zulegoona wrote:Ok, so I haven't been before...

...if the " floorshow" had Justin, and Janet, or snap drill teems it couldn't be over soon enough.

Why do you say that, if you haven't been before?

Are you saying that if a Janet Jackson showed up and turned out to be a bitchin' naked fire dancer, you wouldn't give her a laminate?

Zulegoona · Postby **Zulegoona** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:30 am

Ok, so if "Janet Jackson showed up and turned out to be a bitchin' naked fire dancer", and was just another fire dancer not a featured star, and had a different choreographer. It would be cool. But I don't expect to be close enough to make out who people are.

Apollonaris Zeus · Postby **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sun May 23, 2004 7:05 pm

I really miss the fire breathing miget clowns they'll exceptional for the preburn show!

Burn, Burn Burn the Man down!

Errh, what time does it go off this year?

A not completely Z

Bob · Postby **Bob** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:03 pm

Zulegoona wrote:Ok, so if "Janet Jackson showed up and turned out to be a bitchin' naked fire dancer", and was just another fire dancer not a featured star, and had a different choreographer. It would be cool. But I don't expect to be close enough to make out who people are.

Would that be from the viewpoint of a participant, or spectator?

blyslv · Postby **blyslv** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:32 pm

SAVE THE MAN! THERE'S STILL TIME! DON'T BURN HIM! FIRE IS A WASTE!

<The above was from my favorite perfomance art during the pre-burn gathering. About 20 people walking around protesting the Burn. I'm pretty sure they were joking.>

stuart · Postby **stuart** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:03 pm

Do you really think it is appropriate for an artist to ask the public what it "wants"?

I will flip that a bit and say 'in the spirit of burning man' if someone came up to my video rig and started to tell me what they would do instead with the gear and space I a. might smile politely and nod. But more likely b. tell them fuck off and do their own schtick somewhere else.

Ranger Genius · Postby **Ranger Genius** » Tue May 25, 2004 12:16 pm

I tried to convince the participants in my section of the Burn perimeter last year that the burn had been cancelled due to lack of interest, and that they should all "Move along, nothing to see here" after the fire conclave had concluded. For some reason, they didn't believe me.

Release Me · Postby **Release Me** » Tue May 25, 2004 2:00 pm

I'm down with "The Wop".

P-Mobius · Postby **P-Mobius** » Tue May 25, 2004 5:35 pm

you can create a lot of positive participant energy in the space you are "waiting in" before the man burns---like talk to somebody, share a portable gift, catch up on some sleep youve been missing for a few nights, encounter an art car, meditate----

theres a good chance that if you are impatient for the man to burn, once the man starts burning youll get impatient for it to end, once it ends youll be impatient for the next place(where do you have to go anyway?) , the next thing, the next day, the next burn, the next life, etc...and you didnt spend any time actually at the event but actually at the anticipation and frustration of it....

yeah

diane o'thirst · Postby **diane o'thirst** » Tue May 25, 2004 7:42 pm

"Clear view of the Man as he burns"?!?!

He's standing fifty feet over our heads! There ain't anyone on the Playa or above it that <i><b>doesn't</i><b> have a clear view of the Man burning, wherever they sit!

It ain't the Beatles, folks. Front 'n centre ain't necessary. Any vantage point is a good one, even back in the City.