Rings vs Spokes

[1durphul]

It strikes me as strange that the Burning Man organization feels there is not room for all the theme camps that apply for placement.

Is the organizations memory so short that they've forgotten the not so distant past of pre-2005 city lay outs which used the 3-4 inner rings rather than four spokes as the cities theme camp placement area?

How can you run out of space when you just need to annex one more ring to get everybody in? It's not like the number of people camping changes somehow.

Perhaps the Burning Man org has achieved their 2005 "spoke plan" goal of integrating the suburbs, but had never planned on the "what if" of having achieved their goals. The unforeseen "what if" of course is that more people apply to be theme camps then ever before.

Reference:
Map 2004: A,B,C, and part of D are "theme camp/village zones"



2005: 4:30 and 7:30 major spokes, 3 and 9 keyholes, 2 and 10 half spokes:

[Ugly Dougly]

It's not the lack of space, it's the lack of interactivity.

[1durphul]

It's not the lack of space, it's the lack of interactivity.

Then just put the non interactive camps in the furthest back "theme camp" ring.

Space isn't a premium when it is done this way.

[motskyroonmatick]

It's not the lack of space, it's the lack of interactivity.

Then just put the non interactive camps in the furthest back "theme camp" ring.

Space isn't a premium when it is done this way.

But those camps still have to be sorted out and placed. More camps = more burden on the placement volunteer staff. Cutting out camps with a low interactivity level and a high population or square footage just means they don't get an ORG sanctioned land grab. I am fine with letting low participation camps with high populations fall off the placement list. Make them earn it. Early entry and placement is not a right it is a privilege.

[Tiahaar]

I for one dearly miss the years of having the theme camps densly packed into the first couple of streets; traveling back and forth on the ring roads finding all kinds of great stuff to do was my most favorite thing. Hunting up and down and in and out of spokes and rings and plazas not so much. The outer rings will always have their own charm and hidden great finds, no need to have to 'place' theme camps there. RINGS! (keep the plazas too)

[1durphul]

I for one dearly miss the years of having the theme camps densly packed into the first couple of streets; traveling back and forth on the ring roads finding all kinds of great stuff to do was my most favorite thing. Hunting up and down and in and out of spokes and rings and plazas not so much. The outer rings will always have their own charm and hidden great finds, no need to have to 'place' theme camps there. RINGS! (keep the plazas too)

I too appreciated the theme camp density of the rings over the sprawl of the spokes.

Let's pretend that the city is not Black Rock City, but instead it is the bay area. It would be like the Cities of Oakland and San Francisco decided that Vallejo, Stockton, and San Jose were not getting a true "urban experience" and magically turned SF and O-town from dense cores into thin strips that stretched the 40 miles in each direction down to San Jose, out east to Stockton, and North to Vallejo.

If that happened would Oakland and San Francisco still be cities? Or would they just become as bland and sprawly as the cities that the grand experiment in urban design was trying to bring urban culture to?

Why would the result be different for the burbs of Black Rock City? I assume people camp in the outter rings for their own personal reasons.

[1durphul]

It's not the lack of space, it's the lack of interactivity.

Then just put the non interactive camps in the furthest back "theme camp" ring.

Space isn't a premium when it is done this way.

But those camps still have to be sorted out and placed. More camps = more burden on the placement volunteer staff. Cutting out camps with a low interactivity level and a high population or square footage just means they don't get an ORG sanctioned land grab. I am fine with letting low participation camps with high populations fall off the placement list. Make them earn it. Early entry and placement is not a right it is a privilege.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the placement team uses a formula like this: 1 person = X sq ft of land.

And then there's a host of secondary and tertiary considerations like neighbor requests and street frontage footage request.

Currently there are two classes of registered theme camps: placed and not placed. Why not create a third placement class? "Minimally placed."

"Congratulations, here is your placement. Due to a lack of interactivity specified in the application you submitted we have classified you as minimally placed. This means that we have reserved X square feet for your camp at x:00 and Whatever street. This space is only reserved on Monday until 5pm at which time unclaimed space becomes open to all. Upon arrival please contact Jumping Frog The Placer who well show you on a map where you are placed, and if he's feeling extra in love with you perhaps even show you how to get there. Cherrio... pip pip and all that."

or even more minimally...

"Congratulations, here is your placement. You are on the block between D and E, and 7:00 & 7:30. On this block you have 1000 sq feet. Work with your neighbors as they arrive to figure out placement details, or reserve time in Thunderdome to permanently resolve any issues. Good luck!"

[motskyroonmatick]

"Congratulations, here is your placement. Due to a lack of interactivity specified in the application you submitted we have classified you as minimally placed. This means that we have reserved X square feet for your camp at x:00 and Whatever street. This space is only reserved on Monday until 5pm at which time unclaimed space becomes open to all. Upon arrival please contact Jumping Frog The Placer who well show you on a map where you are placed, and if he's feeling extra in love with you perhaps even show you how to get there. Cherrio... pip pip and all that."

or even more minimally...

"Congratulations, here is your placement. You are on the block between D and E, and 7:00 & 7:30. On this block you have 1000 sq feet. Work with your neighbors as they arrive to figure out placement details, or reserve time in Thunderdome to permanently resolve any issues. Good luck!"

People who go this route can have self service placement as soon as the gate opens at 00:01 Monday. By tightening the rules a little that is what placement is giving them. The current system is set up so that the placers placement job ends at that time. Reserving land on monday with 20,000 people coming in is a nightmare and causes many conflicts.

Sounds like planning a gate opening land grab might be in order. It is easy to do at gate opening if you are clear headed and have a contingency plan and a clear way to communicate where camp is to incoming camp members.

I have no idea what exact criteria the placers used to decide to give my camp placement and early arrival. I did have a good plan for camp, clean up and offered a rare service.

[1durphul]

Ok, I think there are ways to place that involve minimal to no additional involvement of the placers.

[Dustdevil]

Ok, I think there are ways to place that involve minimal to no additional involvement of the placers.

Why don't you volunteer for the Placement Team and make it happen?

[curiousgnate]

All I know is that I camped with approximately 100 people. only motz. from above had placement for his brc welding and repair shop. we were very squished by a camp that had all of three people there until thursday, when a fleet of rvs came in. That camp was very rude to ours when we tried to get them to give up a little land from their half a block, for a few of our people who needed more space then we had on tuesday night. The place holder of the "theme camp" and i use that term even though it was definately not applicable, fought with us tooth and nail about just having a few people camp in their land. He said that they were going to be doing interactive things, but not happened there all week. Basically he was reserving the land for a bunch of people with rvs who were weekenders under the guise of being a theme camp. really pissed me off as we are an unnoficial theme camp and had a ton of interactivity, as we will again next year! Land grabs are great if you can coordinate them properly.

[Dustdevil]

What was the name of the registered theme camp that wouldn't help you out and them failed to provide interactivity? I for one would love to know who that is.

[curiousgnate]

all I know is that we were camped at 8:30 and f on the block that is e-f and 830-900. we had a half a block on the outer side on f from 830- halfway down the block. basically a quarter of the whole block. we were right behind the department of spontaneous combustion. this camp was from the halfway point between 830 and 900 with the whole half of the block between e and f.

[curiousgnate]

they even said they had events listed in the guide, but none not one! materialized.

[1durphul]

Ok, I think there are ways to place that involve minimal to no additional involvement of the placers.

Why don't you volunteer for the Placement Team and make it happen?

That is actually a good idea... except that I'm not really planning to go to BM this year.

[motskyroonmatick]

Should have seen it earlier----Troll.

[oneeyeddick]

Harly a troll, at least not on this one.

He is actually an old e-playan...wearing a new sock.

[theCryptofishist]

However, he is beginning to show serious signs of "Burnt-Out Old Burner" syndrome. "I'm not going, but here's how the event should be run" is a very typical manifestation.

[1durphul]

However, he is beginning to show serious signs of "Burnt-Out Old Burner" syndrome. "I'm not going, but here's how the event should be run" is a very typical manifestation.

I plan to go in the future, I'm just not going -this year-. I've gone six years in a row, and I think I need a year or two off just so that when I go back the number of "new things" would be greater than the typical number in year over year comparison.

I mean it makes sense right, 2009 to 2010 a few new things, where as 2009 to 2011 or 2012 two to three times as many new things.

As for rings vs. spokes, I've always thought that the spokes didn't work as well as the rings did. My first year was the last year they did Rings though, so it might just be one of those "my virgin year was the bestest ever" things.

In regards to socks. Moistpup (my old screen name) has been retired permanently. This is my only screen name both here, and on Tribe. I'm not in the BM tribe anymore though. After making the decision not to come back to burning man for 2010 I decided to remove myself from all of the BM related tribes.

2009 was a middle of the road year for me. The event itself was fantastic as always. I did feel a little "been there done that" though having been to many of the same camps over the past six years. I really look forward to seeing how time changes things for BRC.