Power To The Playa... From Germany!

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:13 am

It would appear there is a possibility of a German research organization bringing a field test of an alternative power source to Black Rock City in 2010. At Gyre's suggestion, we are moving the conversation here and you can pick up where it started at about the middle of this page:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... &start=120

Don't plan on leaving your generator at home just yet as this is an experimental technology that is in "phase one" testing.

Please welcome Karl von Hesse "kvon" who found us with a simple Google search.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:22 am

good call Gyre and MJM..........

although, the title is so "milk toast", it might be good to post stuff here.
No need cluttering up other threads with actual information and help input...........

I do hope they bring Frauleins........

so, please allow me to be the first post, and, start the thread drift.........

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:08 am

Kvon, to make reading this thread easier, I would suggest starting by copying and pasting your original posts here, with any quoting and editing you think is needed for continuity.

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:19 am

gyre wrote:Kvon, to make reading this thread easier, I would suggest starting by copying and pasting your original posts here, with any quoting and editing you think is needed for continuity.

That's another good idea, Gyre. I hesitate to ask a busy man, new to our group, to do administrative tasks. I'm happy to do it if nobody else wants to step up. Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:00 am

hello, unjonharley signing on to follow this thread..

snake · Post by **snake** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:50 am

so it's a 'real' thing, eh? devious.

kvon · Post by **kvon** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:21 am

hello and happy Christmas, to all.

I am hoping you are all enjoy a festive day.

I have only time to quickly report, our first phase testing is progressing well, with results meeting, and, hopefully to exceed, expectations.

We are still working the long hours, since, this is necessary to monitor and adjust parameters and functions, as anomalies arise.

I see we have this new thread, just for addressing our project, and, wish to thank very much Mister Jellyfish mister for it's creation.

I must now return to my duties, as, one of our associates has not arrived for her shift, due to illness......although we suspect it may be otherwise.

I merely wanted to wish you all the best of the season, and, post here on this new thread, the information that all is progressing as hoped.

I will report back, as we acquire definitive results.

K

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:33 pm

Happy Christmas to you and your team.
I hope for good results.

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:57 pm

My pleasure entirely, Kvon. Good luck with this crucial research and may the new year bring many a breakthrough.

At your earliest convenience, please PM Dusty Bacon and I your mailing address in Germany so we can ship those soil samples to you that we affectionately refer to as "playa dust".

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:38 pm

shockwave? just curious...

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:12 am

Elorrum wrote:shockwave? just curious...

is that scary for you?

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:52 am

I imagined that something that would cause a shockwave would require more energy than what would be resonated, I'm just curious. I was talking to a fellow a few months ago who was proposing using the entire playa surface as a subwoofer resonator. Felt a little invasive, in the realm of non-lethal weaponry technology.

But I got no issues.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:02 am

Any details?

The high efficiency military research in this area that I'm aware of, is far from non-lethal.
Some pa drivers in use now can cause internal bleeding, especially at the nexus point between two speaker sets.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:04 am

yeah, I hear you Elorrum.....
Hopefully, he'll let us know....he seems sort of secretive as to details. He referred to "international patents" and such........

wow, sub-woofer-playa.....yeah, there may be those who don't want the "oontz" I suppose.

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:45 pm

Dragonfly Jafe was looking into a Low Frequency Oscillation project a while back. Jafe, didn't you abandon that when you discovered the possible harmful effects?

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:39 pm

yeah, that was 2005 - the subsonic generator concept. I was shooting for 7hz or so IIRC, at ~120dB. Test runs at ~90dB resulted in 90% of the test subjects either getting sick (nausia and headaches) or feeling irritated (no sound was audible). I suffered flu-like symptoms after 2 days of testing subjects one-by-one. My neighbors were also disturbed due to their windows rattling (they thought a series of low-grade earthquakes were occuring). I calculated that at full power, a good portion of the city could be subjected to similar levels, so I elected not to ruin a bunch of people's Burn (the thought of being "lynched" also occured to me). I was also worried that a wind storm might drive the reed (the design was based on pipe organs), resulting in extreme volume levels that could not be shut down. In the end, the possible bad outcomes were too many, and not one of the Test Subjects reported an adrenaline rush (the whole goal - fight or flight response), so I stopped working on it. Interestingly enough, the BMorg had nothing against me bringing a subsonic generator (I asked them).

Lots of power in oscillations. Look up "Wind Belt" - http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... 24763.html

Tesla tech is also based on oscillations (tapping resonant energy). Lots of "free" energy out there - just need a tap (like a thermo-couple or wind-belt).

kvon · Post by **kvon** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:46 pm

Hello, again, friends.
I will wish you all a joyous and successful new year.

I am here with a mixed result report:

We had a wonderful first attempt, even at this small scale.

we achieved a modicum of success in stabilization, as flow began, allowing the shock wave to propagate, and then, much to our delight, synchronize, as indicated by the simultaneous firing on our indicator L.E.D lights for brief periods.
During those periods, we measured a full 2 amperes of load to our simple device.
What an exciting time that was.

We feel that more power may well have been available, but, shortly following the full actuation of the device (I will detail the device shortly), a small, seemingly insignificant mechanism failed, and, our test was subsequently halted. We don't feel the test failed, since, the problem were related to an hardware/mechanical failure of one of the few devices we have in our mechanism that we have not created our selves.
It was a simple, foreign made switching relay, obviously made with inferior materials.
We will not encounter that issue again, as, we have decided to fabricate, or, purchase locally, from known vendors, all parts possible.

So, with that, we do have a setback.
We will have to re-create this first phase testing, so as to prove our result repeatable, and, to ascertain the actual level of power possible to generate, using our principles.

However, in my opinion, a spectacular first attempt, and, results matching our hopes.

to detail the simple mechanical device, which was mine own idea, for a visual examples the energy produced:

in series, was connected to a 1cm diameter, 4cm in length wooden dowel, first a small L.E.D. light, at one end.
Next, the dowel was connected to an eccentric wheel mounted on a low speed, motor,
and finally, a small acoustic vibrating device.
each have a threshold resistor separating them, so, as power increased, the L.E.D would light, followed by the motor spinning, allowing the dowel to rise and fall (so as to prove power to move against the resistance of gravity and friction of the system), and, finally, the acoustic device would signal a total power draw of 2 amperes.

Imagine our delight as one by one, the L.E.D. lit, then the dowel began it's reciprocating motion, followed by the audible confirmation of full power.
We all enjoyed an actual visual and auditory example, along with the required gauges and indicators.

Unfortunately, very shortly after the final indicator sounded, the previously mentioned "foreign made" part, failed.

We were disappointing, but realized, that, considering the speed at which each threshold was reached and surpassed, more power was undoubtedly possible.

As to the concerns stated regarding our "shockwave", I sadly can not give much detail, as, it is within the unique process we are attempting to patent. Please, though, rest assured, it is not a dangerous thing, and, is initiated by simple low level magnetism, and, is not related to explosion, but, more so to the application of sequential energizing of magnets.

We also see no indication or possibility of an acoustic effect surrounding or emanating from our device.
Although, in consideration of same, I will suggest to my mentor, we include acoustic recording and monitoring device, to determine any effect or manifestation.

I will close for now,
hoping to have definitive results to report, upon completion of our next attempt at first phase testing.

Also, Mr. Jellyfish Mister and Dusty Bacon:
I have received your samples, and, they are as described.
May I, though, impose on you another task?
It would be helpful, to ascertain the soil composition and water saturation at one meter depth. We are concerned that the soil is chemically similar to the surface material at that depth, as well as the compaction and moisture content.
Would it be possible, to, have a core sample, sealed and shipped?

K

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:54 pm

Congratulations, Karl.
I'm very excited for you.

The acoustic discussion was mostly off topic thread drift.
I don't think it was concern about your device.

Glad you have good news.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:13 pm

Yes...any sub-surface phenomena (unless created by gargantuan quantities of energy, like an earthquake) will not create significant amounts of acoustical energy...the impedance match is poor. There should be no risk from sound damage from this experiment of Kvon's (unless I am very much mistaken about the principles he is basing his device on).

Which is not to say that this Kvon couldn't be on to something - although if it is resonance based, timing will need to be very precise (on the order of 1 part per billion at least, I would guess). From his last post, it seems that this may be the case.

Kvon - I hope your project makes it this year, I look forward to seeing how you resolve certain...issues

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:52 pm

that does sound interesting....

but,

my head hurts...........

*thinking there's got to be a visual of some sort, or joke, related to his "reciprocating dowel with an l.e.d and buzzer*

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:09 pm

Thank god this isn't another pee battery array.

Carry on... and good luck!

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:03 am

mmmmmmm......ultra-low freq....

Genesis P-Orridge and the swell folks at Throbbing Gristle have been fucking with that for years...

so has HAARP.

the real secret to perpetual motion and free energy is most certainly gerbil based, just ask richard gere.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:07 am

I had always thought they used golf clubs for HAARP..........

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:34 pm

Thank you, Kvon. That sounds like a lot of good news! I wish I could have been there to see the faces of you and your colleagues during what might later be considered an historical event! I'm starting to see why our projects have the "hammer" name in common.

I'm surprised the soil samples arrived so quickly considering the Christmas rush for our respective postal services. I'm not experienced enough to do the kind of deep core sample you mentioned, but I think Dusty might be able to help you. I sent him a PM to make sure he sees your request.

I'm finishing up the grant proposal due at the end of the month at Burning Man headquarters. Will you also be applying for a grant through the organization if you receive approval to do your phase two testing in the desert? Providing power could certainly be considered a community service, and I'll bet it would curry favor with the powers that be.

Be well and do strange things!

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:56 pm

well,
if Dusty can't, I bet I can take a core if it's only a meter or so.

This sounds interesting........I'm fairly conversant in geology and, a pretty good fabricator in general, if, the need arises.

yeah,.......well, and to see their faces when that dowel, with the lit tip, started reciprocating, then buzzing .................. *chuckle* ..........

well.....er...... just sayin'......

No offense, Kvon, just having some laughs, potentially, at your expense.

All in good fun.

MJM:
if, Kvon contacts you and needs my help, please tell him to feel free to contact me or, if you would, email me or PM with details.

It is ok to joke and tease Kvon? I hope.........after all, I'd hate to be inappropriate......

Dusty Bacon · Post by **Dusty Bacon** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:12 pm

I have just returned from several different sample sites around the edge of the puddle on the playa (where the event will most likely be held). It was easy to pull saturated in-situ samples due to the standing water ...

I'll be airmailing them to you soon. More details in PM ...

Thanks for the offer Ygmir, we got it taken care of :)

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:55 pm

*kicks dirt*

dang, there goes my excuse to visit Goathead and have raviolis at Bruno's........

well,
let me know if I can be of any other service.......

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:37 pm

ygmir wrote: dang, there goes my excuse to visit Goathead and have raviolis at Bruno's.......

Dodged a bullet, and we are glad to have you among the living.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:33 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
ygmir wrote: dang, there goes my excuse to visit Goathead and have raviolis at Bruno's.......
Dodged a bullet, and we are glad to have you among the living.

Goatheads not that mean........
I may be a slight man,

but, I'm like a wolverine when cornered.........

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:29 pm

Here we are, the first page of the topic, and a Don Knotts character has already shown up. Curse you, Ygmir, for beating me to him!

Power To The Playa... From Germany!

Power To The Playa... From Germany!

Soil Samples

Done and Done