Survival

[ygmir]

oh, I totally understand, or at least accept, the premise.
Part of why I keep a supply of old diesel vehicles.....no ignition system at all......
although, any engine with old fashioned points, should survive, or, at least, be readily repairable.
One of my propane generators runs from a magneto and points......

As is so often the case, people, or even society in general, will probably prepare for a certain event, and, it'll end up being something else.....

IMHO:
it's not so much a matter of preparing for a particular event, but, being able to improvise........

but, that's just me....

[Ugly Dougly]

What's a CME, and why am I squatting in the corner, shivering, holding a knife?

[can't sit still]

Dougly, a CME is a coronal mass ejection,,,, a sun fart. If you read the link that I posted, it talks about what happened when a CME hit Quebec. The thing that I have a hard time understanding is the distance versus the area. It's roughly 93 million miles to earth from the sun. Quebec is a pretty small area. How could a particle burst from 93 million miles away hit a relatively small area? Maybe it was only able to punch through in a small area in our magnetosphere??
Imagine a sphere around the sun that was 186 million miles in diameter. That would give it a circumference of 586 million miles. The earth is only 8000 miles across. That means that the earth is a target 8000 miles across against a potential target radian of 293 million miles. We're a tiny target. Let's hope that our luck holds out.

"why am I squatting in the corner, shivering, holding a knife?"
You must have dropped in on gyre

[Risky]

An interesting DIY Survival collection, printed 2005 England -
http://dev.c6.org/c6/C6_DiY_Survival.pdf

[unjonharley]

oh, I totally understand, or at least accept, the premise.
Part of why I keep a supply of old diesel vehicles.....no ignition system at all......
although, any engine with old fashioned points, should survive, or, at least, be readily repairable.
One of my propane generators runs from a magneto and points......

As is so often the case, people, or even society in general, will probably prepare for a certain event, and, it'll end up being something else.....

IMHO:
it's not so much a matter of preparing for a particular event, but, being able to improvise........

but, that's just me....

So, how will altenaters do in a solar storm?

[can't sit still]

The alternators will do fine. The solid state regulators could have a problem if the particle storm is as strong as an EMP burst,,, not really very likely. It's "very long" wires that will pick up the most induced current. A 'faraday cage" would protect stuff that was off-line during the storm.
I would also be careful putting a gas-station fuel nozzle up to a metal tank while the storm was in effect. It might be something like "The Faming Lotus Girls" with you doing all the dancing

[unjonharley]

[quote="can't sit still"]The alternators will do fine. The solid state regulators could have a problem if the particle storm is as strong as an EMP burst,,, not really very likely. It's "very long" wires that will pick up the most induced current. A 'faraday cage" would protect stuff that was off-line during the storm.
I would also be careful putting a gas-station fuel nozzle up to a metal tank while the storm was in effect. It might be something like "The Faming Lotus Girls" with you doing all the dancing [/quote

Forgot to ask about inverters? I live in a midcentry house.. The outlets were not grounded.. So I drove iron stakes in on each side of the hose.. Them installed grounded outlets running the green to the iron ground.. Am going to put in some builtin surge protecter outlets.. This new electronic stuff cost to much to run a chance..

The electric Co. had fire yesterday and fryed some peoples home electronics while they were at work.. So, Now I'm looking a motion detector switches.. Don't know how well that will work.. The cat and I take short naps.. Everything would be turned off..

[Sail Man]

"why am I squatting in the corner, shivering, holding a knife?"
You must have dropped in on gyre

[Sail Man]

most of my storage is in a sealed military container, purged and pressurized to 5 psi with Argon........raw steel and portland cement containers within, as well.

My plan is to use 5 gallon food grade pails. The dried food is then placed in mylar bags with O2 absorbers and desiccants tossed inside and then heat sealed. Outside of the mylar but still in the pail I'll toss more absorbers and then seal with a gamma lid.

Other techniques use dry ice instead of absorbers, or simply vacuum sealing. Ygmir, your approach is different, and I dont recall reading it anywhere else other then you mentioning it to me before.

[Ugly Dougly]

Hear that guys? They got dried wheat! Let's get 'em!

[ygmir]

Hear that guys? They got dried wheat! Let's get 'em!

let nothing but fear and good sense dissuade you.

[ygmir]

most of my storage is in a sealed military container, purged and pressurized to 5 psi with Argon........raw steel and portland cement containers within, as well.

My plan is to use 5 gallon food grade pails. The dried food is then placed in mylar bags with O2 absorbers and desiccants tossed inside and then heat sealed. Outside of the mylar but still in the pail I'll toss more absorbers and then seal with a gamma lid.

Other techniques use dry ice instead of absorbers, or simply vacuum sealing. Ygmir, your approach is different, and I dont recall reading it anywhere else other then you mentioning it to me before.

that's probably 'cause I made it up.......but, seemed workable and redundantly protected, to me, anyway........

[can't sit still]

The basic question is; how bad are things going to get? Leaving aside the personal problem of no job,, no income, we all have to ask,"what am I preparing for?"
There are several possibilities;
1: a continual Japan style slump.
2: a VERY nasty turn in the weather as predicted by Jennifer Lawson
3: a complete collapse of fiat money
4: war with Iran and a cutoff of oil transit in Hormuz
5 ; war with China and Russia from trashing Iran
6: bond default by the US
7: collapse of the bond market

Jim Willie has several more to add;
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1262801311.php

The problems fall into 4 categories
availability of consumables
availability of purchasing instruments
dysfunction of GOV
dysfunction of the economy/commerce

Problem # 1 is a best-case scenario. The economy will never come back to previous highs.
Problem # 2 ,,, bad weather and resulting crop destruction. It's hard to argue global warming when millions are freezing their asses off.
Problem # 3 is a distinct possibility but not a likelihood for the US dollar. The Euro is probably toast.
Problem # 4 is somewhat likely because israel is a desperate mad-dog in their views of iran
Problem # 5 ,,,,,,,,,,, I'm crossing my fingers
Problem # 6 is a different story. The US can default,,, raise interest rates,,, raise taxes The last 2 will insure that the economy doesn't have a prayer. There are already 39 million on food stamps. The unemployment figures are a lying crock of shit. Emergency unemployment numbers are shooting up;
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot. ... yment.html
There is truly NO WAY OUT. 80% of our jobs are service jobs. We'll never escape our deficit. That means that we'll continue to spend-down our national wealth. If we destroy the dollar to lower effective wages and compete with Asia, we'll lose out as commodities shoot up. We can't compete in manufacturing and we can't survive on service jobs.

The US was the big consumer in the world, BUT, we did it with high wages payed for with borrowed money. If we lower wages to a global-mean to get the manufacturing jobs, there won't be many people with disposable income.

Capitalism, in it's quest for efficiency will cut wages to the bone. The end result is that wage earners who would like to be consumers have no money. Once you let the "efficiency" genie out of the bottle, there's no going back. I see no solution because technology produces more automation,,, not more jobs. The Neo-Luddites do have a point.

The US could conceivably perfect free-energy and unlimited nano-assemblers and unlimited robots. That would still leave us with high unemployment. There is no cure for the curse of too much free time. Imagine going to Burning man every 2 weeks.
There is very little demand for the American producer. Capitalism hates to support the non-producers. East Germany proved that socialism is no cure.

The cure by precedent is world war Destroy everything,,, kill lots of people and start over. If the bankers would just let us muddle along with a stable population and a stable economy, we could get by OK.
Maybe we should all stock up on banker pelts.

[Sail Man]

The basic question is; how bad are things going to get? Leaving aside the personal problem of no job,, no income, we all have to ask,"what am I preparing for?"
There are several possibilities;

And I present a revised list from the Survival Boards:

Armageddon
Global nuclear war
Limited nuclear war/attack
Chemical/Biological war/attack
Weather Modification attack
Major conventional war
New colonial activity (Fr., Sp., Port., It., Germ., Japan, China, Russia, UK, Brazil, Ven.)
A new Persian Empire
Invasion of the US
Regional climate change
Global warming
Global cooling/Ice Age
Celestial object impact/near miss
Nemesis induced Oort Cloud meteorite rain
Black hole appearance
Dark matter/anti-matter incident
UN/One World Gov
NWO (New World Order)
US Coup
US revolution
Government Tyranny
Anarchy
CME (Coronal Mass Ejection)
Ozone layer depletion
Solar radiation increase/decrease
Gamma ray burst from neutron star collision
Earth orbit shift
Magnetic pole shift
Rotational pole shift
Earth Core Cooling
Massive tectonic activity
Grand Alignment induced tectonic activity
EMP attack (Electro Magnetic Pulse)
Major nuclear power plant incident
Utilities failures
Terrorism in about a thousand different forms
Martial Law
Travel restrictions
Communication restrictions
Weapons restrictions
New, more restrictive assault weapons ban
Total gun ban
Local/regional gun grab
Gold/PM restrictions
Gold/PM recall
Rampant inflation
Major economic depression
Nationwide/global economic breakdown
Personal financial breakdown
Loss of job
Personal/family catastrophic illness
Bank closure/failure/mandated bank holiday
Strikes/boycotts/embargoes/price controls
Food shortages/price increases
Water shortages
Shortages of goods and services for a variety of reasons
Peak oil
Fuel shortages/price increases
Methane Hydrate release
Gulf Stream shutdown
Overpopulation
Rapid Population Decline
Social break down
Widespread civil unrest/riots
Aztlan/Reconquista Uprising
Civil war
Ethnic war
Racial war
Religious war
Resource war
Refugees
Becoming a refugee
Landslide/mudslide
Brownout
Blackout
Avalanche
Hurricane
Hypercane
Tornado
Earthquake
Flood
Sea level rise
Sea level drop
Tsunami
Mega Tsunami (La Palma, West Antarctic Ice Sheet)
Volcano
Mega Volcano (Yellowstone Caldera)
Lahar
Pyroclastic flow
Blizzard
Hail
Lightening
Heat wave
Antibiotic resistant bacteria
Epidemic
Pandemic
Pestilence
Rainforest deforestation
Forest fire/wild fire
Fire storm
Sand/dust storms
House/apartment/building fire
Drought
Crop failures
Hazmat incident
Medical emergency
Local major accident (aircraft/auto/rail/building)
Airplane crash
Automotive accident
Shipwrecked/marooned
Becoming lost in the wilderness
Becoming lost in the megalopolis
Crime wave
Local major crime
Dangerous wildlife confrontation
Wild animal rampage
Addictive Entertainment
Eco-system collapse
Out of control bio-genetics/bio-technology/Nano-technology/robotics
Sub-atomic particle research accident
Extraterrestrial biological contamination
Evidence of extraterrestrials
Hostile extraterrestrials
Peaceful extraterrestrials
Biblical flood
Biblical plagues
Second coming
A New Messiah
The Anti-Christ
Zombies/vampires/werewolves/other supernatural dangers (just kidding!)



I think the only thing missing from this list is a new tv channel: All American Idol/All the Time

Oh wait, I see that has been covered under Addictive Entertainment

[unjonharley]

Nice list Sailman,

You didn't list the attack we are under now. World industry and it's weapon is, there fallout, waste and pollution..

Madison avenue is the propaganda machine.. Telling us feeding at the teet of
industry is GOOd for us.

Here now, Eat this red herring and you will be just fine..

Just part of one

Never mind the pollution cost to your health/welfare.
Spend thousands extra for this car we have "safely" built for you.. Look, It will go 120mph. We built in safety that will protect you in a 20mph crash.. Only 50,000 people die in auto crashes each year and every year since 1946.. We've come a long ways baby.. In 1950 we were building 4,500 pound cars, with V8's would go 120 and got 30 mpg.. Now we have made of tin foil, 120 and get 22mpg.. (this is a never ending list) So i'll stop now..

Your food industry is killing at a faster rate than automobiles.. Much in the same way as cars.. Advancing backward

[can't sit still]

At one time , all trash was bio-degradable. As we slowly changed our habits, more and more was not bio-degradable. China has quickly changed their habits. They are quickly being buried in trash;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33228978/ns ... ginSlide=1
Your list is quite extensive. SOME of the options are inevitable. I'm preparing a post for the "Winter" thread. Carpe diem

[unjonharley]

At one time , all trash was bio-degradable. As we slowly changed our habits, more and more was not bio-degradable. China has quickly changed their habits. They are quickly being buried in trash;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33228978/ns ... ginSlide=1
Your list is quite extensive. SOME of the options are inevitable. I'm preparing a post for the "Winter" thread. Carpe diem

Exactly, If I buy it I use it.. I pay for the smallest trash can. It's never more than half full. Then only with plastic wrap and cat poop.. The yard debre can never go's to the curb. Everything that will break down is composted then spread for worms to digest. The house is on a septic system. The water bought is returned in a lech feid for the trees and bushes. Keeping and eye out @ state surplus sale.. Looking for a heavy duty paper sheader.. No, I'm not some crazy tree hugger. All this effort redirect my money. Just read about double composting cat/dog poop..

[can't sit still]

Forgot to ask about inverters? I live in a midcentry house.. The outlets were not grounded.. So I drove iron stakes in on each side of the hose.. Them installed grounded outlets running the green to the iron ground..
Harley, normal code wiring has all the greens and all the whites running to the panel. All the whites go to one buss and all the greens go to another buss. BOTH busses are grounded. Greens and whites are ONLY grounded together in the panel. Then, there is #8 copper from the ground buss in the panel to the ground rods.
Inverters are kinda sensitive. You need the real good strips.

Am going to put in some builtin surge protecter outlets.. This new electronic stuff cost to much to run a chance..

The electric Co. had fire yesterday and fryed some peoples home electronics while they were at work..
I worked in Mexico for 10 years. In Merida, the power would hit 205 VAC in the morning before the henniquin plant came on the load.. It fried a lot of equipment. There are a lot of companies going out of business. One local company gave us their UPS. You could look for one of those cheap.
So, Now I'm looking a motion detector switches.. Don't know how well that will work.. The cat and I take short naps.. Everything would be turned off..

[can't sit still]

EVERYONE knows that several countries are engaged in weather modification. I won't cover the details. GOV has been very open about reporting both projects and funding. It is believed that NWO wants to do a big reduction in population. It appears that weather modification is used to reduce population in Islamic countries. Specifically by droughts.
http://www.alternet.org/water/95085/mid ... ted_crops/
http://www.mideastweb.org/water.htm
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/02/m ... ering.html
http://www.greenprophet.com/2009/02/04/ ... ddle-east/
Australia had to take 245 million acres of farmland out of production to comply with Kyoto.
The US has about 70 million acres [don't quote me] tied up by ethanol production even though it was proved years ago that it is a net energy loser. India reports that they are using every square inch of farmland. They're buying 1 million acres in Ceylon. China destroys a lot of farmland on a regular basis.

What does that mean to you?? Why should you care? Well, as fiat currencies die, prices will go way up. Food could double in a short time. We're supposedly going into a huge rise in the price of commodities;
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1262805613.php
It wouldn't be surprising if the PTB try to price much of the world out of the market for food. There has been a drastic reduction in cultivated acreage. It's something to be aware of.

[unjonharley]

CSS,

Ever wounder why I keep posting about growing my own food and saving seeds..

Now I'm learning to make my own soil in a sheltered space.. Industry has contaminated our soil, water and air..

Also working on a water garden.

[can't sit still]

Harley, no, I don't wonder at all. I bought 10 acres on a river,,, mostly farmland. It's a couple hours south of you. Keep posting,,, for all the others

[Sail Man]

Nice list Sailman,

You didn't list the attack we are under now. World industry and it's weapon is, there fallout, waste and pollution..

Madison avenue is the propaganda machine.. Telling us feeding at the teet of
industry is GOOd for us.

Here now, Eat this red herring and you will be just fine..

Just part of one

Never mind the pollution cost to your health/welfare.
Spend thousands extra for this car we have "safely" built for you.. Look, It will go 120mph. We built in safety that will protect you in a 20mph crash.. Only 50,000 people die in auto crashes each year and every year since 1946.. We've come a long ways baby.. In 1950 we were building 4,500 pound cars, with V8's would go 120 and got 30 mpg.. Now we have made of tin foil, 120 and get 22mpg.. (this is a never ending list) So i'll stop now..

Your food industry is killing at a faster rate than automobiles.. Much in the same way as cars.. Advancing backward

Thanks but I can't take credit for the list, I ran across it on Survival Boards.

I don't eat red herrings, nor do I drink the kool-aid

[can't sit still]

Take a look at the complete economy of the Amish. Then look at the economy in the average American city. How much of the difference is necessary. How much is actually supportable,,,, in the long run?

[unjonharley]

Take a look at the complete economy of the Amish. Then look at the economy in the average American city. How much of the difference is necessary. How much is actually supportable,,,, in the long run?

Start with the base needs.. Food and shelter. Then safety (of the shelter). Next (being a herd animal)you will need friends and lovers.. After aquiring these three.. You will want to expand on them.. This where the human problem kicks in. How much "stuff" do you want/need?

The next step is on improve on the base three. Now is the time for the above question

[Ugly Dougly]

I plan to join one of those crowds of "rioters" that will head directly for remote armed compounds in the countryside and demand dried wheat and beans from the inhabitants. I plan to be armed with nothing more than a baseball bat, for your information.

[unjonharley]

I plan to join one of those crowds of "rioters" that will head directly for remote armed compounds in the countryside and demand dried wheat and beans from the inhabitants. I plan to be armed with nothing more than a baseball bat, for your information.

In the famed words of Killbuck (aka kil-uck), You are so doomed.

[ygmir]

I plan to join one of those crowds of "rioters" that will head directly for remote armed compounds in the countryside and demand dried wheat and beans from the inhabitants. I plan to be armed with nothing more than a baseball bat, for your information.

you're only saying that, 'cause, you know, when you get here, I'll welcome you with open arms........

[Ugly Dougly]

You mean your arms fire from an open bolt.

[can't sit still]

Dougly you're in for a LONG , hungry walk to get to ygmr or my compounds . And, yes, we'll open up with arms .........wait, I mean open arms. You're welcome at my campfire anytime. It's an "open fire" WAIT, I mean,,,,,,, lotsa arms and lotsa fire,,, for everyone. You get the idea

[Boijoy]

I'm collecting small bottles of whiskey and tequila in my basement. Figure it will last forever and even get better over time & I will be able to barter anything with it.. & NO I'm not telling you where I live.

and just in case the world doesn't end.. I will be able to throw on helluva party !!