Survival

[1durphul]

you will need friends and lovers..

I often read these survivalist/world colapse threads... and everytime I consider an exit strategy there is always the question of "companionship."

Being gay I feel like if the end of civilization were to come I'd find myself facing a level of isolation and loneliness that would be hard to survive mentally and emotionally.

[Ugly Dougly]

I have befriended many a soul from a "war-torn" land. I only talked to the survivors and they found a way to carry on.
But you don't have to live like a refugee.

[Ugly Dougly]

[youtube][/youtube]

[1durphul]

I have befriended many a soul from a "war-torn" land. I only talked to the survivors and they found a way to carry on.
But you don't have to live like a refugee.

I suppose it's just my fear. I'm watching a Democracy Now special about the wise of white supremacist groups since Obama's election. The tea party groups, unbeknownst to many of their membership, are being led by white supremacy christian groups.

I'm reading What is the What right now, a book about the Sudanese "lost boys." I'm coming to realize that the liberals are not too unlike the villagers, and the Christian right is like the arabs in the story. Like the villagers the liberals think they can reason with people who will scream "God is great" as they pull the trigger on a machine gun aimed at crowds of women and children. As a result the liberals think they can "peacefully protest" their way through a violent upheaval in which the "other side" doesn't see them as human.

If tomorrow the militias decided it was time to "cleanse" their cities the liberals would all be dead by the end of the week, probably shot in the head while sitting in an intersection peacefully protesting.

[ygmir]

I have befriended many a soul from a "war-torn" land. I only talked to the survivors and they found a way to carry on.
But you don't have to live like a refugee.

whew, you are merely human..................

otherwise, I'd start looking for you to change your name to Edwards........
hey, wait, Wolfe who?...........HHHMMMMM

[ygmir]

I have befriended many a soul from a "war-torn" land. I only talked to the survivors and they found a way to carry on.
But you don't have to live like a refugee.

I suppose it's just my fear. I'm watching a Democracy Now special about the wise of white supremacist groups since Obama's election. The tea party groups, unbeknownst to many of their membership, are being led by white supremacy christian groups.

I'm reading What is the What right now, a book about the Sudanese "lost boys." I'm coming to realize that the liberals are not too unlike the villagers, and the Christian right is like the arabs in the story. Like the villagers the liberals think they can reason with people who will scream "God is great" as they pull the trigger on a machine gun aimed at crowds of women and children. As a result the liberals think they can "peacefully protest" their way through a violent upheaval in which the "other side" doesn't see them as human.

If tomorrow the militias decided it was time to "cleanse" their cities the liberals would all be dead by the end of the week, probably shot in the head while sitting in an intersection peacefully protesting.

Interesting points, thanks for sharing that.
I might suggest, though, that either side can be just as violent, don't automatically expect, that, both won't scrub you if you don't agree, or, fall in line...........comrade or not.

[can't sit still]

Boijoy, it all gets down to necessity. I don't NEED your whiskey. I'll trade you 1 roll of toilet paper for 100 bottles of tequila.

[ygmir]

booze, cigarettes, chocolate, printed porn............

[can't sit still]

Imagine that bond auctions fail
Imagine that everyone runs for the exits
Imagine that the FOREX crashes
Imagine a bond default
Imagine our creditors suspending oil shipments
Imagine a disappearance of fuel outside of GOV enterprises
Imagine a cessation of fuel deliveries farm-warehouse-store
Imagine the angriest mob you can imagine
Imagine them hungry

Now, imagine them flowing past your house while you're barbecuing bacon
Our just-in-time delivery system doesn't leave a lot of food in warehouses.
Get lots of books and lie low. Buy earplugs so that you don't hear the wailing.

[unjonharley]

Boijoy, it all gets down to necessity. I don't NEED your whiskey. I'll trade you 1 roll of toilet paper for 100 bottles of tequila.

Camp/treking in Az. in the 60's.. We carried upholstry beading.. It was rolled paper.. Cut into 5 inch leghts it made one sheet of toilet paper.. It come in large spools.. Wounder if they still make it? Couple spoolss would go a long way in a survival pack.

[ygmir]

Boijoy, it all gets down to necessity. I don't NEED your whiskey. I'll trade you 1 roll of toilet paper for 100 bottles of tequila.

Camp/treking in Az. in the 60's.. We carried upholstry beading.. It was rolled paper.. Cut into 5 inch leghts it made one sheet of toilet paper.. It come in large spools.. Wounder if they still make it? Couple spoolss would go a long way in a survival pack.

how's that any better than rolls of t.p.?

[gyre]

I have befriended many a soul from a "war-torn" land. I only talked to the survivors and they found a way to carry on.
But you don't have to live like a refugee.

I suppose it's just my fear. I'm watching a Democracy Now special about the wise of white supremacist groups since Obama's election. The tea party groups, unbeknownst to many of their membership, are being led by white supremacy christian groups.

I'm reading What is the What right now, a book about the Sudanese "lost boys." I'm coming to realize that the liberals are not too unlike the villagers, and the Christian right is like the arabs in the story. Like the villagers the liberals think they can reason with people who will scream "God is great" as they pull the trigger on a machine gun aimed at crowds of women and children. As a result the liberals think they can "peacefully protest" their way through a violent upheaval in which the "other side" doesn't see them as human.

If tomorrow the militias decided it was time to "cleanse" their cities the liberals would all be dead by the end of the week, probably shot in the head while sitting in an intersection peacefully protesting.

Your idea of liberals may be inaccurate.

[1durphul]

I'm reading What is the What right now, a book about the Sudanese "lost boys." I'm coming to realize that the liberals are not too unlike the villagers, and the Christian right is like the arabs in the story. Like the villagers the liberals think they can reason with people who will scream "God is great" as they pull the trigger on a machine gun aimed at crowds of women and children. As a result the liberals think they can "peacefully protest" their way through a violent upheaval in which the "other side" doesn't see them as human.

Your idea of liberals may be inaccurate.

Just about every liberal I know has never handled a gun, and they've bought into the Ghandi pacifist method of protest and conflict resolution as the ONLY way to counter an enemy.

What they don't realize is that the reason Ghandi's peaceful protests worked was because the British have a conscience. The religious fanatics conscience tells them that murdering the sinners is how you protect your family, or even worse that they're saving the sinner by killing them. That isn't the sort of conscience that Ghandi's methods were tailored for.

[ygmir]

I'm reading What is the What right now, a book about the Sudanese "lost boys." I'm coming to realize that the liberals are not too unlike the villagers, and the Christian right is like the arabs in the story. Like the villagers the liberals think they can reason with people who will scream "God is great" as they pull the trigger on a machine gun aimed at crowds of women and children. As a result the liberals think they can "peacefully protest" their way through a violent upheaval in which the "other side" doesn't see them as human.

Your idea of liberals may be inaccurate.

Just about every liberal I know has never handled a gun, and they've bought into the Ghandi pacifist method of protest and conflict resolution as the ONLY way to counter an enemy.

What they don't realize is that the reason Ghandi's peaceful protests worked was because the British have a conscience. The religious fanatics conscience tells them that murdering the sinners is how you protect your family, or even worse that they're saving the sinner by killing them. That isn't the sort of conscience that Ghandi's methods were tailored for.

to which religious fanatics do you refer? Muslim, Christian, J.W.?............

and, as Gyre points out, you may be using a fairly narrow definition, for liberal..........perhaps, you mean "Hippy"?

Gyre, would and could, cut your heart out and eat it in front of you.........after shooting you in the knees so you can't escape. But, he'd make sure you have public housing.

[gyre]

Liberal actually means to embrace democracy.
That one group has chosen that word to recast as an insult, is no accident.

And in that vein...

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest ... if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity."
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi


President John F. Kennedy said:

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.


And I suggest that Gandhi's diplomacy like most diplomacy, worked because of the threat waiting behind.
Gandhi was the messenger, vulnerable and terrible.


If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg.
Dalai Lama 2001


And a bit of liberal claptrap...

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1764

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn't.
-- Ben Franklin

Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
--Thomas Paine

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
-- George Washington

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.
--Patrick Henry.

Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?
-- Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 386.

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.
--Samuel Adams, debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87.

The right of the people to keep and bear…arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country…
--James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).

(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation…(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
--James Madison.

If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government...
-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist #28

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.
--Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-B.

To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.
-- George Mason

The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.
--Noah Webster, “An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (1787) in Pamplets on the Constitution of the United States (P.Ford, 1888)

The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or the state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People.
-- Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

[gyre]

I'm actually not fond of council housing.
I would rather see housing kept affordable.

Cities and financial interests conspire actively against this.

We have recently seen what buying into the myth that there is real value in housing beyond what it costs to build, can lead to.
(There are exceptions in high density locations, of course, but awareness of what you're actually paying for, or betting on, is called for.)
Then examine how construction costs are kept artificially high.

And look at what is really possible.
All technology moves ahead, except homes.


Just one example-
http://www.lustronconnection.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lustron_house
http://www.oldhouseweb.com/architecture ... rt-1.shtml
http://www.piranhagraphix.com/Lustron/
http://www.lustronhome.com/index.htm
http://lustron.org/
http://www.lustronpreservation.org/

[gyre]

Gyre, would and could, cut your heart out and eat it in front of you.........after shooting you in the knees so you can't escape. But, he'd make sure you have public housing.

[unjonharley]

you will need friends and lovers..

I often read these survivalist/world colapse threads... and everytime I consider an exit strategy there is always the question of "companionship."

Being gay I feel like if the end of civilization were to come I'd find myself facing a level of isolation and loneliness that would be hard to survive mentally and emotionally.

That seems an unfounded fear.. If you servive then others will have also..
If your an adult and still playing the bed bounce game.. I suggest you stop and find a life partner and get on with living.. If one passes before you.. Knowing what you had goes a long way in emotional survival.. I was twice married.. Both past (canser) and I'm still in love years later..

[unjonharley]

Boijoy, it all gets down to necessity. I don't NEED your whiskey. I'll trade you 1 roll of toilet paper for 100 bottles of tequila.

Camp/treking in Az. in the 60's.. We carried upholstry beading.. It was rolled paper.. Cut into 5 inch leghts it made one sheet of toilet paper.. It come in large spools.. Wounder if they still make it? Couple spoolss would go a long way in a survival pack.

how's that any better than rolls of t.p.?

That will depend on how long you plan to servive off grid..

[unjonharley]

Danm

[Ugly Dougly]

That isn't the sort of conscience that Ghandi's methods were tailored for.

There's a quote from him that I am too lame to dig up, but something about courage being the heart of his movement, and not nonviolence driven by fear of hurting other people.

His method would have needed to be revised to deal with Hitler.

[ygmir]

Liberal actually means to embrace democracy......

I've always understood, in relation to politics, "Liberal" was a reference to wanting change from the traditional.
Conservative, meaning to hold things as they are.

I find it interesting, that, depending on ones POV, either party can be labeled either way.........

I try to use "Left and Right", when I think of it.

[Ugly Dougly]

I use "right vs that ain't right" when I have to.


It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.
-Mahatma Gandhi

[Isotopia]

Being gay I feel like if the end of civilization were to come I'd find myself facing a level of isolation and loneliness that would be hard to survive mentally and emotionally.

Spartan warrior::spear toting slave boy

Ship Captain::cabin boy

US Senator::page boy

Catholic priest::alter boy

Movie star::best boy

[can't sit still]

It ALL depends on what level we sink to. I believe that there will be petroleum delivery interruptions. I believe that there will be high unemployment,,,, forever. If manufacturing sinks to a "global mean wage" , there won't be a return to our previous standard of living. Some people will be insulated but, there will still be a LOT of people who are redundant and/or rarely employed.

At the most brutal scenario, we'll all be scavengers. Imagine "A Boy and His Dog"
It's a trippy movie. Don Johnson would like very much if every copy went up in flames.
The next step up would be Mad Max. But, like any pirate society, it can't exist without prey. We either have extensive agriculture or we don't have a future as a country. The problem for many is that there is no demand for their services. They can't barter skills they don't have.
Then, there is "Brazil" and "Soylent Green"
The problem in Wiemar Germany was too much paper money. We don't have that problem. Since so much of our money is electronic, how will that play out? Look at the prices from Germany;
http://www.nowandfutures.com/weimar.html
You can forget about any wage-price-spiral. The banks have locked up credit. Suppose they lock up paper money? The store gives it to the bank,,, the bank gives it to your employer. Suppose the banks just hold on to it?

At a certain level, there are people who want to eliminate a lot of "useless eaters" We already know that the banks and the central banks have lost control. Does anybody have control? What are their objectives? Control or no control, can anybody say with certainty what level we will descend to?
As long as unlimited money is shifted to wars and banks, what can we expect for a safety net? Do YOU see any sign from DC that it wants to invest in a safety net?

So, while your trying to guess just how much we're going to fall apart,,,,,,,,,, Look at GOV and decide how serious GOV is about taking care of the populace.
GOV is marching in lockstep with the corporatist/fascist agenda. The "anthill society" has no use for non-producers.
Because so many facets of our industrial society are interdependent , there is great risk of systemic failure.
Many of the things that have come to pass were unthinkable 5 years ago. What other "unthinkable" things will come to pass?

[can't sit still]

I just got this in mail. I can't attest to the accuracy. I do know that the US was on track for a great harvest. I do know that farmers had a hard time getting in crops because it was so wet. This article claims that the crops were stored "wet" It may sound unimportant,, it isn't.

Spring Food Crisis May Trigger Economic Collapse!!!!!


Farmers across America and in many other parts of the world are calling 2009 the worst harvest they've ever seen – largely due to extended bouts of bad weather

January, 2010
By Michael Hampton

You have maybe two months to stock up on the necessities of life before food prices rise dramatically, potentially prompting a food panic, widespread famine, and quite possibly the long-expected collapse of the U.S. Economy.

Farmers across America and in many other parts of the world are calling 2009 the worst harvest they've ever seen in their lives, owing largely to extended bouts of bad weather. At the same time the U.S. Department of Agriculture is officially forecasting bumper crops, while grain elevators stand nearly empty and close to three-fourths of the country’s farmland is in areas declared eligible for federal disaster assistance due to failed crops.

A popular farmers’ Web site is chock full of stories of entire crops of soybeans rejected for moisture damage, long delays in harvesting corn only to find out the corn is moldy, damaged or too light to be used as animal feed or even ethanol, and farmers unsure if they'll even have a farm for another year due to the losses they've taken.

Most agricultural products are purchased in futures, which are promises to deliver a quantity of a commodity at a future date. Futures carry many risks, prominent among them the possibility that the commodity simply won't be available at the promised delivery date. While futures prices are set by the market, some of the information used to set the prices comes from the USDA’s World Agricultural Supply and Demand Estimates reports. The unrealistic 2009 bumper crop predictions in its recent reports, which may have seemed reasonable months ago before 2009’s long string of bad weather but which USDA has failed to revise, drove futures prices artificially low.

But grain futures prices have already risen well above the USDA’s latest projections as the corn harvest threatens to drag on into March in some areas of the country, thanks to an unusually wet 2009 and unprecedented fall flooding in the Midwest.

The good news is that even with 2009 being the worst harvest in human memory, there will still be plenty of food in the U.S. To feed everyone in the U.S. The bad news — if you’re in the U.S. — Is that the food won’t be used to feed everyone in the U.S.

It seems China has finally figured out what to do with all the U.S. Dollars it’s holding. You’ll recall that the Federal Reserve took some pretty extreme measures over the last two years, ostensibly to save the U.S. Economy. In fact, those measures have set us up the bomb. For decades China has been buying U.S. Debt and financing Americans’ credit addiction as well as the government’s massive spending on millions of projects it has no business being involved in. But, it seems, they’ve had enough of the dollar and are about to pull the plug.

In the meantime, China has been using those dollars to buy every morsel of American food it can get its hands on. Combined with 2009’s bad weather and the USDA’s ridiculous numbers, this prompted a late August soybean shortage which is expected to continue through 2010.

The U.S. Has a very good reason to fudge the numbers on crop estimates. If it published realistic numbers, and crop futures prices rose sharply, three things would likely happen: Wall Street would take massive losses, inflation fears would cause investors to dump bonds, frustrating the government’s attempts to finance its incredible expanding debt, and most importantly, China, whose currency is tied closely to the U.S. Dollar, would allow it to appreciate. That alone would likely send the U.S. Dollar into freefall; all three would mean utter economic collapse.

Of course, you can’t fool the market for long; as noted above, futures prices are already well above the USDA’s numbers. All they really managed to do with their numbers game was buy the U.S. Dollar another year of life.

One market analyst believes that the 2010 food shortage will be the catalyst which not only brings about the collapse of the U.S. Economy, but takes down Great Britain and Japan with it.

While a food crisis was unavoidable to some extent because of the abnormal weather and financial crisis, the total panic which will soon grip world agricultural markets is a creation of the USDA and its fictitious production estimates. If not for the USDA’s interference, food prices would have risen in the first half of 2009 in anticipation of the 2009/10 shortage. The United States Department of Agriculture has caused incalculable damage to the world economy by encouraging overconsumption of rapidly diminishing food supplies.

Once the 2010 Food Crisis starts, confidence in the US government will be shattered as a result of the USDA’s faulty estimates. The starvation and misery caused by higher food prices will also create a lot of anger . . . — Market Skeptics

In this scenario, rural banks will begin failing rapidly, especially in the Midwest, and the inevitable bailouts will drive up U.S. debt further. These bailouts, combined with the Chinese allowing the yuan to appreciate, will erode confidence in the U.S. dollar to the point that foreign banks and investors begin dumping U.S. debt at fire sale prices. At that point the Federal Reserve will have no choice but to print money, leading directly to hyperinflation.

I shouldn’t have to tell you what hyperinflation will look like, but in case you need a reminder, it will likely make the Great Depression look like a minor recession. Tens of millions of people who have never known want in their entire lives are going to be shocked to wake up broke and hungry, with no idea what happened or why it happened to them. The government will almost certainly be unable to fulfill its promises of food stamps, social security and other such welfare programs. Food riots are likely and people will almost certainly die when the government attempts to put them down.

Worst of all, almost nobody will assign blame where it truly belongs: central banks and fiat currency.

Market Skeptics and many other foreign investors I’ve seen quoted widely in foreign media but virtually never in the U.S., recommend investing in agriculture, except derivatives, and in precious metals. I also recommend you invest in as much nonperishable food as you can lay hands on in the next two months, at least a year’s supply if you can manage it. If there’s no collapse, you can eat it, and if there is, you’ll at least have something to eat. And when you read a headline such as “Yuan allowed to rise versus dollar,â€

[unjonharley]

Just watching Life Stinks w/Mel Brooks.. Cut the happy ending and your looking @ some bad times..

[unjonharley]

After watching whats happening in Hatai.. I REpeat, Most of you could not survive a broken shoe lace.. Talks cheap, takes money to buy beer.. Food water and a second shelter. Just in case the house go's down..

[ygmir]

After watching whats happening in Hatai.. I REpeat, Most of you could not survive a broken shoe lace.. Talks cheap, takes money to buy beer.. Food water and a second shelter. Just in case the house go's down..

I'd say you could compare Haiti to urban America.........but, I'd disagree related to us "country folk".............

but, yes, you are so right.
That is probably exactly what any major city would look and act like, given the same circumstances.

If, you're in a city, make a friend in the hills..........

[unjonharley]

After watching whats happening in Hatai.. I REpeat, Most of you could not survive a broken shoe lace.. Talks cheap, takes money to buy beer.. Food water and a second shelter. Just in case the house go's down..

I'd say you could compare Haiti to urban America.........but, I'd disagree related to us "country folk".............

but, yes, you are so right.
That is probably exactly what any major city would look and act like, given the same circumstances.

If, you're in a city, make a friend in the hills..........

just figered out how to feed the big dogs.. just throw a fresh kill looter in..