Earth anchors....?

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:26 pm

Anyone ever try these? Thinking of getting a few and welding the loop closed.

I know the playa tends to be clay, after a few inches. So wondering if any of y'all had any success with these anchors.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:53 pm

I tried 'em one year and couldn't get them started. I think you need to dig a hole to get the spades started screwing in. Bob Stahl has all the answers on this, as he's used them effectively.

Bluemandrew · Post by **Bluemandrew** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:50 pm

Yeah I'll second that. We brought 4 last year to use on our 40ish foot camera mount, and couldn't get em in the ground. Ended up using a bunch of short rebar daisy chained to itself

On the other hand, I've seen them buried out there. I believe they use them to hold down the man.

Ive heard the same thing Phil said too, use a spade or shovel to start them and you're good.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:06 pm

I use a concrete auger bit on my drill to start the hole, then pour water to lube them and cement them into place.

If you wet the sopt first before taking them out, it doesn't leave as big of a hole.

The same method works good for those cheap dogscrews, which work fine for smaller things like shadecloths or carports.

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm

slightly larger versions of the screw in earth anchors are also use to hold up the huge cover above centercamp. I have seen a few pallets of them around there.

epic_elite · Post by **epic_elite** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:14 pm

seem sturdy enough. but they look like you would need a solid pipe to stick in the hole to screw them into the ground.

purely speculation, but they also look like they could tear up the playa as you screw them in and loosen the firm ground into loose ash substance and thus defeating thier own purpose.

ive seen people erect giant parawings with rope and rebar just fine. but in the winds of '07, they held up until the winds kicked in. :roll:

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:28 pm

A pipe or a hammer handle, along with some downward push, is required to thread them into the ground, but that is a gimme.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:10 pm

I've used them for several years, even posted on eplaya regarding same.

easy to start, just a pipe through, and, lean on it as you turn, until it bites......

once they get down to the moist soil (a few inches), they really hold......I've had to stop turning as the shaft bent (OED, Simon, I know what your thinking), before it goes all the way in........(now, stop it......).

hold very well, come out easy, and, closed loop for no sharp edges.....

j_cavera · Post by **j_cavera** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:29 am

My camp has used them for the last x years to hold down a 100' parachute. Parachute fails long before they do. BUT, we had a homemade machine to do the insertion and removal. Said machine consists of a BMF electric motor attached to a hydraulic cylinder all mounted on a truck. My advice: get (build) one of them!

- Jim

PS: Would love to help, but the guy with the machine and parachute is taking the year off. The 2010 camp is going to be much less shadier. :(

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:07 am

ygmir wrote:I've used them for several years, even posted on eplaya regarding same.

easy to start, just a pipe through, and, lean on it as you turn, until it bites......

once they get down to the moist soil (a few inches), they really hold......I've had to stop turning as the shaft bent (OED, Simon, I know what your thinking), before it goes all the way in........(now, stop it......).

hold very well, come out easy, and, closed loop for no sharp edges.....

SURE! Forget about me and U.D. will ya

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:18 am

*feelings of regret*

I accept your admonishment......and, submit for penance..........

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:54 am

In 2000 my crew put in a few dozen 40" anchors by hand. Just requires a starter hole dug with a claw hammer. Think we used a 1" x 6' pipe lever operated with downward pressure by two people. Screw them in straight, putting them in at an angle doesn't give you any advantage. Closing the top with a weld is a good idea but vineyard & orchard supply yards eg Cameron & Cameron in Santa Rosa probably have them already closed at the eye.

The Cafe crew uses dozens of them, but they fabricated a Bobcat attachment. Took a few iterations to get it right.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:26 pm

ygmir wrote:*feelings of regret*

I accept your admonishment......and, submit for penance..........

Oh, goody gumdrops

[youtube][/youtube]

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:33 pm

I knew you'd go there........

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:58 pm

Thanks for the input. I'm gonna try em out in July. I've got a 3 foot steel pipe to help turn them. A pilot hole makes sense. I'm also welding the loop closed, so the force doesn't turn them into dangerous art.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:19 pm

make sure and experiment with "guide holes".........part of the hold is the mass of soil, exerting force out from the anchor plate/auger.

I used to set telephone pole anchors and, some were like these.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:32 pm

ygmir wrote:make sure and experiment with "guide holes".........part of the hold is the mass of soil, exerting force out from the anchor plate/auger.

I used to set telephone pole anchors and, some were like these.

Now, using 15 inch anchors, how deep will they actually go? I don't want too much exposed. I'm only anchoring cheap 10x10 canopies. Ived used em before, and they hold up wayy better than expensive EZ ups,with a little duct tape. Plus, I can bring spares.

epic_elite · Post by **epic_elite** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:03 pm

.[/quote]

Now, using 15 inch anchors, how deep will they actually go? I don't want too much exposed. I'm only anchoring cheap 10x10 canopies. Ived used em before, and they hold up wayy better than expensive EZ ups,with a little duct tape. Plus, I can bring spares.[/quote]

i was thinking... "aren't these a little excessive for a 10x10 canopy?" then i read your signature.

in '07 i tied down the neighbors canopy of the same dimention with 3/4 inch rebar and some twine. ...just sayin'

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:26 pm

TomServo wrote:
ygmir wrote:make sure and experiment with "guide holes".........part of the hold is the mass of soil, exerting force out from the anchor plate/auger.

I used to set telephone pole anchors and, some were like these.
Now, using 15 inch anchors, how deep will they actually go? I don't want too much exposed. I'm only anchoring cheap 10x10 canopies. Ived used em before, and they hold up wayy better than expensive EZ ups,with a little duct tape. Plus, I can bring spares.

well..........that depends on soil type/condition, auger angle and diameter, steel strength, and, leverage for turning.

the anchors I use, are 4" dia, 3/8" bar size.
on the playa, I get them about a foot in the ground, before, the rod starts to twist..........so, that's as deep as I can get them.......I don't think a machine would change that, since, the metal is giving.
a guide hole might allow for more penetration, but, would it help?
I can not pull one out, once to depth, by hand. I'm averagely strong, so, I'd think, in a straight pull, that quite a few pounds.
I did note, that, some of the anchors had a more severe angel to the auger section, and, that changed the ability to "start" them..........some I just leaned on the pipe I use as a lever, some I had to hit with a hammer until they bit into the firmer, moist soil below.

there are several suppliers online, and, they are cheap, seems under 5 bucks each, for, closed eye ones.

I use 6 to hold down my 12x20 shade structure, and, have never even had one come loose...........

and, they sure come out clean and easy......

well,
that's my 2 cents, anyway.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:32 pm

Overkill.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:32 pm

ygmir wrote:
TomServo wrote:
ygmir wrote:make sure and experiment with "guide holes".........part of the hold is the mass of soil, exerting force out from the anchor plate/auger.

I used to set telephone pole anchors and, some were like these.
Now, using 15 inch anchors, how deep will they actually go? I don't want too much exposed. I'm only anchoring cheap 10x10 canopies. Ived used em before, and they hold up wayy better than expensive EZ ups,with a little duct tape. Plus, I can bring spares.
well..........that depends on soil type/condition, auger angle and diameter, steel strength, and, leverage for turning.

the anchors I use, are 4" dia, 3/8" bar size.
on the playa, I get them about a foot in the ground, before, the rod starts to twist..........so, that's as deep as I can get them.......I don't think a machine would change that, since, the metal is giving.
a guide hole might allow for more penetration, but, would it help?
I can not pull one out, once to depth, by hand. I'm averagely strong, so, I'd think, in a straight pull, that quite a few pounds.
I did note, that, some of the anchors had a more severe angel to the auger section, and, that changed the ability to "start" them..........some I just leaned on the pipe I use as a lever, some I had to hit with a hammer until they bit into the firmer, moist soil below.

there are several suppliers online, and, they are cheap, seems under 5 bucks each, for, closed eye ones.

I use 6 to hold down my 12x20 shade structure, and, have never even had one come loose...........

and, they sure come out clean and easy......

well,
that's my 2 cents, anyway.

A foot is about as far as I need for these. I think they'll work just fine.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:43 pm

Bob wrote:Overkill.

That's how I do things. Did I mention the 5 foot T posts I use for my heavier 10x10? Got sick of fixing shit after each dust storm. Theyre a little heavier, but with the right tools are easier to drive and pull than rebar..god bless it! I love rebar, but its not consistant.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:09 am

Why settle for something that "should" work, when you can use what "will" work?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:11 am

Bob wrote:Overkill.

*pulls up a radio to sit on while listening to the couch*

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:36 am

Overkill is a beautiful thing, and a pretty damn good band also.

[youtube][/youtube]

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:38 pm

oneeyeddick wrote:Overkill is a beautiful thing, and a pretty damn good band also.

[youtube][/youtube]

I saw them, when they were supporting Megadeth's peace sells tour. Great band!

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:07 pm

Check the prices at Cameron & Cameron before you waste time grinding & welding those things. Or don't bother welding them at all, if you're not subjecting them to severe service.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:28 pm

The ones I was looking at were $4 from Grainger...which I think is an overpriced company nowadays. My company's local shop, for our truck fleet is in Napa, which I go to every day. The head mechanic said I should drop em by at closing.

justfred · Post by **justfred** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:50 am

TomServo wrote:Why settle for something that "should" work, when you can use what "will" work?

Because good enough, is? Because I'm lazy as hell, more so when on the playa, and I'd like to do the minimal amount of rebar/t-stake/concrete screw manipulation and maximize fun time. But that's just me. And pretty much everyone in every camp I've camped with, except they're even lazier.

18" W-profile military stakes (at most) have held down everything we've ever tried to hold down out there. I've never done a circus tent, but I'd think that would be about the largest/lightest/most likely to catch wind structure out there, and would certainly need special technology to hold down. I'm guessing they use long steel straight stakes.

The screw stakes you're showing, I believe, are designed to be used as temporary tiedowns for airplanes. Wonder what the pilots at Burning Man use.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:46 am

Ill have to ask Captain Morgan, if I ever see him again. Gave us a flight around BRC a few years back. What fun.