Horsey Burners

[diane o'thirst]

I'm looking to connect with other Burners who have horses and thought, however briefly, about bringing them out to the Playa but, like me, scrapped the idea almost immediately.

I fully understand the issues: each horse generating 50 pounds of road apples and requiring at least 15 gallons of water per day, reactions to what's out there, what if they get loose/stolen, they're big dangerous animals, it's bad enough that people sneak their dogs in, et alia. It's probably foolhardy to use "dogs vs. horses" as a benchmark because horses earn their keep by performing in events and processions, can be costumed, provide transportation, whereas dogs do nothing but make noise and MOOP and provide endless opportunities for the ever popular "dog barbecue" jokes. Sorry, you can't braid EL wire into a dog's mane and tail and ride him in a procession unless you weigh 15 pounds Anyway, this'll be my seventh Burn and I know how to create a cleanup strategy.

First inspirations: a Riders of Rohan theme camp, with yurtlike tents like they had in the warcamps; carousel horse costumes on the kids, complete with glass gems and EL wire; an alliance w/the Seattle Knights and challenging Draka to a staged combat with packs of mounted warriors daring the dragon!

That having been said, I'm definitely not going to give it any serious thought for at least another five years. My boy hasn't even been introduced to a bitted bridle yet, I'm not taking him out there until he's backed and mature enough to mentally accept a strange environment like BRC. I'm just testing the waters to see if anyone else has thought what I've thought

[Tiahaar]

You are right, horses or any animal shouldn't be brought into the harsh Burning Man chaos. However if a couple stallions/geldings/mares drive up in their own rig with sufficient provisions and tickets I'd let them in : ) Hey, but a horse themed camp would be great, have a parade even of all wheeled horse-looking transports. I'll bring mine (build in progress).

[Chai Guy]

in 98 somebody brought camels.

[diane o'thirst]

I remember the camels, the Anon Salon people brought them. They also got in heap big trouble for not cleaning up after 'em!

It's probably not a good idea to make blanket statements about BRC and what one should or shouldn't bring to it. Definitely, I wouldn't try a project like bringing biological horses to the Playa if I was a newbie, or even without a good deal of experience both with the Playa and with horses in general, and if I thought my horse couldn't handle it we wouldn't even be having this discussion: I'd say "Not a chance!" and that'd be the end of it.

But, I've been out there often enough to know that not all parts of BRC are like the Esplanade, and I most definitely wouldn't be pitching camp there, or even anywhere near the rave camps or Center Camp. We'd probably situate it back on the exodus street both for the (relative) quiet factor, the solitude (fewer neighbours means less chance of someone complaining), the ease of getting to camp at the beginning of the week and getting out at the end, etc.

Obviously you wouldn't be taking Friesians or other black horses, but mustangs and Arabians would probably do alright. You can buy Grevy's zebras in Texas and they're desert animals: I read about one girl who bought a stallion and competes him in dressage, pulling 60%s at second level.

It's pretty quiet early in the morning around false dawn/sunrise and a ride around the Playa at that time would be terrific. And out by the trash fence, it's <i>really</i> quiet.

Personally, I think my horse would dig it. He's intelligent and curious and not flighty at all: yesterday an ambulance came out to the ranch because someone had fallen and he stepped right up to it, saying "Alright! Here you are and here you stay until I give you a thorough sniffing-over!" He loves people and shiny things so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't lack for mental stimulation.

[Badger]

I'd hope that if anyone brought large animals to the event that they'd be prepared to pay full admission for their entry.

The camel folks - if I remember correctley - gave DPW and others MUCHO shit because of the complaints about waste generated by the animals and showed nary ANY inclination to clean up after their beasts.

That sucks.

Really.

OTOH, I don't have time listening to folks whine about the cruel environment and stress issues of bringing camels or horses to the playa. I mean, think about it before you go jerking off your knee.

Horse: deserts
Camels:deserts.

Clue time: Fucking horses (and their precursors) were one of he primary mammals hanging out on the playa for the better part of 100 thousand years.

Please don't pull the PeTA PC bullshit card.

[Tiahaar]

Great accessory for the burner equine prepared for wind and dust, the "Mask, Oxygen and Protective, Horse, M5". Army surplus rocks, and dontja love that guys hat!

[diane o'thirst]

And, he's riding sidesaddle!

Logic prevails!

[Tiahaar]

actually that's the filter cannister for the horse...

[Badger]

Damn! It is.

[leslielandberg]

You wrote:
Clue time: Fucking horses (and their precursors) were one of he primary mammals hanging out on the playa for the better part of 100 thousand years.

If my memory of high school history serves, horses were introduced to the Americas in the 1400's by the Conquistadores.
The Camel is much better suited to the desert environment than is the horse. Horses are highstrung animals that require training to behave during events which involve lots of people, fire, smoke and noise. I love the idea, but it is better suited to the Ren Faire, than to BM. But maybe in time...

Bring back the camels and put them in diapers, or something! Or do what people in parades, stage productions and dressage do (or so I've heard) give them enemas before taking them out. Then all they do is piss, which is usually no problem, as long as no one walks in it...which, come to think of it, is actually something of a problem, isn't it?

[diane o'thirst]

If my memory of high school history serves, horses were introduced to the Americas in the 1400's by the Conquistadores.

Horses as a species originated on this continent and crossed back into the "Old World" via the Beringia land bridge back before the Ice Age. They were reintroduced by some conquistadores who were actually "conversano" Jews, found out, and hunted down by the Spanish crown. Their horses were left here and became Mesteños, or Mustangs.

The Camel is much better suited to the desert environment than is the horse.

Might want to let the Arabs and the Mustangs know that

Horses are highstrung animals that require training to behave during events which involve lots of people, fire, smoke and noise.

There are breeds that do better than others, mostly the coldbloods. I agree. I'd probably bring a Tinker or a Drum Horse (Tinker x Shire or Clydesdale) out before I'd bring a Thoroughbred, Morgan, or even an Akhal Teke (which *is* a desert horse).
It's also down to the individual horse, too. There's a quality called "courage" and it's more common than one would think. Horses do have a lick of intelligence, and many actually get a kick out of facing down something that spooks them.
Again, mileage varies. And I wouldn't go anywhere near any of the fire art with any animal, cat, horse, dog or camel.

I love the idea, but it is better suited to the Ren Faire, than to BM. But maybe in time...

Exactly!

do what people in parades, stage productions and dressage do (or so I've heard) give them enemas before taking them out.

Speaking as a dressage rider...that sort of thing is absolutely antithetical to the very principles of dressage. I'd believe it of the saddle-seat riders, though...massive difference.

[KellY]

Don't know about horses, but I've definitely seen "Ponies" on the playa...

[leslielandberg]

Bingo! I actually joined this string thinking of hooking up with some sexy ponies. I think their scene is neat!

[unjonharley]

I've seen a few horses ass out there too

[shitmouse]

the wooden go kart ponies were my fav.

also getting to hang out with the camels at night was cool. very conservative movements, almost like live puppets meets robotics.
--(kinda felt bad for them on the playa at night tho').
-b

[Kyte]

DIANE...lifetime horsewoman here. I don't know about you, but the first time I looked across the open playa (indeed, the first time I look across any great flat open space) I think: how much fun would it be to gallop across THAT? I don't really think taking horses to burningman is any crazier than half of the horseshows people regularly frequent (ever seen the portable stalls those horses live in at A jumper shows? no turnout for weeks at a time) and if you brought those metal roundpen fence links you could set up a decent little paddock with an attatched shade structure. Seems like the very biggest problem would be water...I don't know how you'd haul enough water out to the playa for two horses in extreme heat for a week...but if you had a stock trailer with partitions and mellow horses, you could even leave them on the rig at night and contain SOME of the poop. There's another thing, though, you'd almost need a whole seperate trailer to deal with a week's worth of horse poop. Maybe the better idea would be to have a second party bring them in for a few days and then take them home, seems like it would be much more manageable for a shorter period of time...I would even tend to think that horses (at least well-travelled ones that are somewhat used to the climate) would do better at burningman than dogs. I'm no PETA radical, but I am very conscious of animal rights, and I still think it could be done by a knowledgeable horseperson with plenty of supplies and help...

Kyte

[polly smith]

nevermind about the dust & heat, there are ways of getting around that while taking care of a horse in extreme conditions, BUT what would be really cool would be a horse & carriage. decorate the carriage with EL wire, drive around BRC at nite, and the carriages have those poop catchers under the horse's tail. that would take care of road apples.

then again, my horse would want to be with me, he likes to wake me up when we are camping, nose in my face...he's pretty laid back, tennessee walking horse retired policeman...noise wouldn't bother him...but having an animal, especially a large animal with with large needs would detract from the burning man experience. like having to take care of a bunch of little kids, no fun. :?

[diane o'thirst]

That's what I was thinking. There are sections of the city that are quieter than others, obviously the Esplanade is right out and probably anywhere near Center Camp. But there's plenty of real estate left, I was thinking pitch camp on the Exodus street. Early morning around dawn it's fairly quiet and not too hot/windy. Certainly doesn't get any hotter on the Playa than it would in Central Park NYC or Los Angeles, or even Vegas.

Sheltering them wouldn't be extraordinarily difficult, either. Just build a 24' dome, string some electric fence tape across it, hang a misting system from the struts and lay down groundtarps and some sod. Lots of camps do that anyway, so would it be any more difficult than just building another dome?

The biggest obstacle is bringing enough water. A bale of hay or bag of hay pellets, and a bag of oats, beet pellets, et alia, would last the week and then some, but they'd need about 20 gallons of water per day, drinking water, bathing water, spritzing water. You go for seven days and that's easily a 200-gallon cube for you and the horse!

Gotta say...I love Walkers. I used to want one, still do, maybe someday...

[diane o'thirst]

Road apples strategies...

Of course, the carthorse diaper would be a prerequisite, absolutely. The other thing is, they dry out fairly quickly and you can burn them. Contracting with the turd burglars to come by a couple times during the week, so you get reset to 0 every third day or so.

Again — couldn't do it without at least access to a flatbed truck. That carries your water tank(s), possibly a composting toilet, serves as a dome anchor during the week or can possibly be decorated as a float for the non-horsed people in camp to ride around in.

I was thinking hay is a big MOOPable so you'd have to get the kids acclimated to eating hay pellets, which is a little more manageable. Carts decorated up with EL wire could be cool, but you can also spangly up a regular tack rig, do the saddle blanket and your chaps in Luminex or shimmery fabric — some of the schooling blankets for even English are getting downright funky and crazy. EL wire the blanket, braid it into their manes, carry banner poles like in parades...wouldn't this procession of mounted riders carrying banners in EL wire and Luminex making their way through the City at night be too beautiful for words?

[diane o'thirst]

http://www.crazylegsstore.com/index.html

Check this site out...even if you don't have a horse to ride, they have some seriously insane casual clothes that are almost perfect for Playa wear!

[Kyte]

I hope I'm not the only one who never heard of a bit wrap. Who does that? If it's dusty, rinse it off.

Kyte

[Lilly Flower]

Bingo! I actually joined this string thinking of hooking up with some sexy ponies. I think their scene is neat!

I've seen a few horses ass out there too

Oh my,

Did you know there is a thread for that?

[Captain Goddammit]

You can't be serious about thinking you can bring a fucking horse to Burning Man! Not only will you deserve the beating you will recieve, but the shit-spewing nuisance will get spooked by loud noises and flamethrowers, and things will get ugly.

You've just got to be fucking kidding.
You've either never been to BRC, and probably better read up a little more, or you're insane. I seriously doubt you'd be allowed in with a horse in the first place.

On second thought, hey, I think I'll bring my dirtbike! That'd be fun to zoom across the playa on. And I'll bring my dog, too.

[diane o'thirst]

Hey, Captain — what's with the flames, threats, insults and knee-jerking? Want to talk about shit-spewing?

I'm not going to take you to task for threatening me with violence because I'm more of the active-response type. Let's just say anyone who does better be damned determined about it because they won't have an easy time of it.

[Captain Goddammit]

Bite me, you and the horse you rode in on.

It's not just me that will be less than pleased to deal with someone's freaked out horse, or the genius that showed up with it.

It's a bad idea, go ahead and see if the powers that be will even let you do it.

[diane o'thirst]

Well, we all knew this'd pull some trolls out of the woodwork...and talk show rhetoric aside, it's <i><b>still a discussion.</i></b> This is what intelligent, mature and well-adjusted people do when they're working out a serious issue like this. Issuing threats is best reserved for bullies and other personages of small wit (believe it's also against the board rules to do that).

And Kyte made a good point: there's nothing in Black Rock City that you wouldn't find in any other city, and the big horse expos, parades, competitions and national championships are certainly on a par with some of the quieter parts of Black Rock City in terms of craziness. And they still pull out and function well enough to take human breath away. Captain Goddammit's entire contribution came across as a spate of towering ignorance. Or at least profound inexperience.

Eh, well. And for the record, I've been to Black Rock City six times, and I wasn't even mildly considering bringing my horse out for at least another five or six years, and <i>then</i> bring him to Fourth of JuPLAYA first to see how he reacts. Shorter duration, less water to bring, less shit to wrangle. If he does okay, fine. If he doesn't, end of discussion, horse goes home, stays home for Burn Week, the Man burns without him.

And can anyone here really predict what Burning Man will be like in 2010? For all we know, there may not even <i>be</i> a desert event!

[Captain Goddammit]

I'm not "issuing threats"... just saying you're gonna deal with a lot of pissed off people, and I'll have no sympathy for you. If you get the lynching you would deserve, you brought it on yourself.
There's nothing in Black Rock City you wouldn't find in any other city? Are we talking about the same Black Rock City? I apologize. I thought you meant the one in Black Rock Desert during Burning Man. THAT one has vehicles with BIG flamethrowers (our camp has one, too) and loud "machine gun" sounding noisemakers and huge sound systems, as well as people who don't want to encounter any horse "exhaust".


Bring a horse to Burning man... yeah, O.K., I was wrong, that's a GOOD idea. You should be encouraged to bring your horse. A brilliant idea. I'll try to stop being so ignorant in the future. I, after all, have no experience with horses or BM. Yep, you're clearly right. Boy am I a nut.

[Lilly Flower]

[diane o'thirst]

Last year on the Playa I saw an art car with a machine gun sound effect charging straight at a cop car, as if on a collision course, with the sound effect going very loudly.

I take it this is the machine you are referring to.

<B>THIS WAS AN <i>INCREDIBLY</i> STUPID THING TO DO!</B> The drivers were damn lucky the cop didn't pull out his <b><u>REAL</b></u> guns and open fire. If he had, I'd have no sympathy for you whatsoever.

If, five years from now, you spotted myself and my campmates out riding on the Playa, would you do the same and damn the consequences (a number of criminal charges including assault with a deadly weapon with malice aforethought, lawsuits, and a very justly-deserved reputation for being a backstabbing asshole — this <i>after</i> a defensive arrow was shot through your driver's chest, into the engine, front tires)? For what? Just for bragging rights? "Wow, look, I freaked the horses out! I was right all along!"

[diane o'thirst]

So: you think bringing horses out to the Playa is a bad idea. Why? It's irresponsible? So is charging at a cop car making a threatening noise very loudly. I'm endangering lives? So were you.

Question: What experience do you have with horses other than crude stereotypes?

If you'd taken the time to read through the thread, you'd have seen the general concensus amongst the <i>experienced</i> horse people was that with a carefully laid-out plan, the right infrastructure, conscientious clean-up and MOOP-prevention methods, <i>experienced</i> horse people could pull it off. Or maybe you did read through and let your emotions get the better of you. This points to a less-than-mature emotional profile — kind of like pulling a stupid, irresponsible and dangerous stunt for nothing better than a boost in your artistic "street cred" — "Wow, look, I scared a cop! I'm edgy! So what if we might have died?"

Bottom line: You have no room to comment.

Polly — I'd second your motion but actually, this whole episode is making me